update on 1100 gearbox clunk

[kompost]

I posted a thread a while ago about a mates 1100gs that clunked when he set off in 1st.I thought it sounded like the shock absorber/damper on the input shaft riding up the ramp and hitting it's stop(possibly a weak spring).I have now stripped the box and found a few things wrong.
When i took off the cover the first thing i noticed was the amount of play on the input shaft,and a lot of bits of red rubber.
I'm not 100% on uploading photo's so i hope this works.
Photo 1 shows the gap on the input shaft,with the arrow pointing to the amount of gap that caused the play.
photo 2 shows the other end of the shaft (sorry for the $hit photo) you can see that all the rubber from the bearing seal has been worn away.
photo 3 shows all the bits found in the bottom of the box,the top right of the photo shows part of the bearing seal,thats broken up.bottom right shows the spacer from the input shaft which has broken up.Bottom left shows the roller off the 4th gear selector fork which had come off and was laying in the bottom.Top left shows what is left of the spring from around the inner part of the seal at the back end of the input shaft.
Photo 4 shows where the spacer should have been on the input shaft.
photo 5 shows the selector fork with the roller missing.
The seal in the end of the box which seals the end of the input shaft had disintegrated,(i think this is why there was oil on the clutch plate,it must have run down the clutch push rod).
waiting for my mate to come round and discuss what he wants to do with it,might be best to get a s/hand input shaft and replace bearings and seals.
Has anyone got one,for an m97 box?
The rest of the box/gears/dogs/splines etc look to be in good nick.
By the way the bike is a late 1100 with 55,000 on the clock.
hope this is of interest
kompost

 

[kompost]

Here's the photo of the disintegrated seal still in the box

 

[big fella]

Excellent

Excellent info Kompost,particularly for anyone having box trouble. Im in the process of rebuilding a 94gs. Having some squealing noise coming from the clutch/gearbox area. Last night i decided to check the clutch release bearing and after removing the swinging arm i discovered that the gearbox housing is cracked, so out with the box tonight and i will make a full assesment. I have a mate that does ally welding so his skills may be called upon.Keep us up to speed on the box rebuild.
BF.

 

[kompost]

i had a bit more of a look when mate came round and as you can see in photo 1 the circlip groove is broken away.So i think it's new or good second hand shaft time.
also in the other photo's, i think we have worked out that the spacer is supposed to be in two halfs with the other ring around it to keep the two halfs in place,and the whole lot kept in place with spring tension.I can't understand why this outer ring has broken in two
If anybody knows otherwise please let me know,i can't find any decent drawings of the m97 input shaft that shows this arrangement.
If anyone knows where i can download some let me know.
I'm going to ring motorworks in the morning and see about prices of bits.
kompost

 

[Paul Young]

Looks like the rings were both originally complete & have both broken in two.

 

[DrFarkoff]

01 23202325477 drive shaft (M 97) BUY 1 $629.00
02 23002325604 repair kit f final drive shaft bearing (25(20)X52X15) BUY 1 $128.00
03 23122325520 clean bearing grooved ball bearing (20X52X15) NA Part not available since 03/12/2007. 1
03 23127709867 clean bearing grooved ball bearing (20X52X15) BUY 1 $63.50
04 23122325518 clean bearing grooved ball bearing (25X52X15) BUY 1 $41.50
05 23111340367 spacer ring (20X28X0,50) BUY 1 $2.20
06 23111340338 spacer ring (42X52X0,30) BUY 1 $2.70
06 23111340339 spacer ring (42X52X0,40) BUY 1 $2.70
06 23111340340 spacer ring (42X52X0,50) BUY 1 $2.70
06 23111341427 spacer ring (42X52X0,35) BUY 1 $3.50
06 23111341428 spacer ring (42X52X0,45) BUY 1 $3.95
06 23111341429 spacer ring (42X52X0,55) BUY 1 $4.10
07 23002325246 lock ring (20X1,85) BUY 1 $5.00
07 23002325247 lock ring (20X1,95) BUY 1 $5.00
07 23121340807 lock ring (20X1,75) BUY 1 $2.90

 

[kompost]

thanks paul and jaythro,where is that piccie from?
Definately looks like they are supposed to be in one piece.
Still don't understand how they have broken up.We don't know the history of the bike,perhaps it's just been really abused,i'd better stop wheelying mine.

 

[Paul Young]

thanks paul and jaythro,where is that piccie from?

BMW ETK (ersatzteil katalog). I've got their parts catalogue & repair manual on my laptop.

Jaythro got his from http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/Diagrams/B0002573.png (right click the image & click "properties")

You can also refer to the sticky at the top of this part of the forum...

 

[Voyager]

Kompost,

Thanks for showing us the pics; very interesting.

I always feel a lot happier when I know exactly what's going on inside the mechanicals. It saves all the 'what ifs' going through your mind when you are a long way from home.

Do these boxes have to be shimmed-up - like the airhead boxes ?

(I should really dig out my Haynes manual and answer that myself).

Bob.

 

[davegs]

Gear box.

have a look at "Bobs BMW" site, they've got a complet illustrated spares list with all (correct) part no's. You can see from this wher all the bits go.
Also get a Clymer manual as these have lots of photos and text and will be a real help.
dave gs.

 

[CHANGELING]

Wow what happened to that box was just starting to happen on mine too. The final fix for me was to add a spacer instead of the wave washer, not my idea , but this is a known problem on M97's.
Maybe do a search on here or ADVrider.
I believe there is an inmate here who goes by the sign of KTMMark who has also done this, maybe he will chip in with something. He helped me a little in my pre rebuild prep work.
Thanks for asking about my box, I put it together without taking a single photo after the ones on ADVrider !!! I guess oily hands and cameras don't mix.
Unfortunately the link I used for the modification doesn't appear to work any more. Something about My Solution I think it was.


Just remembered ....search for chocolate coloured gear oil here and ADVrider.That was what started it all.
Good luck.

 

[Steptoe]

Good to see someone getting their hands dirty and having a go

Good luck with the rebuild.

 

[kompost]

have a look at "Bobs BMW" site, they've got a complet illustrated spares list with all (correct) part no's. You can see from this wher all the bits go.
Also get a Clymer manual as these have lots of photos and text and will be a real help.
dave gs.

Cheers dave i've saved that site in my favourites,dead usefull.

Wow what happened to that box was just starting to happen on mine too. The final fix for me was to add a spacer instead of the wave washer, not my idea , but this is a known problem on M97's.
Maybe do a search on here or ADVrider.
I believe there is an inmate here who goes by the sign of KTMMark who has also done this, maybe he will chip in with something. He helped me a little in my pre rebuild prep work.
Thanks for asking about my box, I put it together without taking a single photo after the ones on ADVrider !!! I guess oily hands and cameras don't mix.
Unfortunately the link I used for the modification doesn't appear to work any more. Something about My Solution I think it was.


Just remembered ....search for chocolate coloured gear oil here and ADVrider.That was what started it all.
Good luck.

Sounds interesting,i thought the wavey washer was a wierd idea,and it doesn't seem to show it on any of the previous drawings,also i can't find the link to your mod here or on adv.Have you got any idea of the sizes and material, i could knock one up on the lathe.
Also does anyone have any idea why there are two spacers at the back end of the shaft instead of one thicker one.
I don't know if it is very clear on the photo's but, one of the broken up spacers is cup shaped .I originally thought it was like that to hold together the other spacer ,which i thought was a two piece split spacer,but looking at the drawings it shows a one piece spacer.
Oh well should be getting some bits from motorworks friday,so i'll see what happens then.

Good to see someone getting their hands dirty and having a go

Good luck with the rebuild.

Cheers,my hands are always dirty,they used to say at work that i cleaned em on me sarnies,hence the name kompost..Anyway time for

 

[kompost]

Wow what happened to that box was just starting to happen on mine too. The final fix for me was to add a spacer instead of the wave washer, not my idea , but this is a known problem on M97's.
Maybe do a search on here or ADVrider.
I believe there is an inmate here who goes by the sign of KTMMark who has also done this, maybe he will chip in with something. He helped me a little in my pre rebuild prep work.
Thanks for asking about my box, I put it together without taking a single photo after the ones on ADVrider !!! I guess oily hands and cameras don't mix.
Unfortunately the link I used for the modification doesn't appear to work any more. Something about My Solution I think it was.


Just remembered ....search for chocolate coloured gear oil here and ADVrider.That was what started it all.
Good luck.

Think i've found it herehttp://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/741375/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1
i'm fed up of looking at the bloody pooter now,but i need to read this.

 

[kompost]

I wish i'd found that before ordering all the bits.
It's a long read but interesting and i agree with spiller.
I will check in the morning but i dont think my mates gear or bearing inner is damaged at all.But it looks like the constant smashing of the gear against the bearing has loosened it's fit on the shaft because it just pulled off in my hand,it should be a press fit.I think it's this loosening of the bearing fit and the constant hammering that has broken the spacers.
Anyway i'm off to bed,my eyes are like pi$$ holes in the snow.

 

[ktmmark]

This setup is only the m97 & later m94 has a different input shaft .
Did this job last year & the two half washers are covered with a cap to hold them together & a circlip to hold the cap in place
Only buy the bearing you can't get from a bearing shop as bmw want 3 times the price for the same bearing (even same make) think there is one you cant get from a bearing shop & its the wide one

 

[ktmmark]

I have a picture with the mod washer on, but 1 am @ work so it's not on this computer let me know if you want me to post it

 

[CHANGELING]

Kompost, you hit the spot with that BMW sporttouring link. That is exactly the guy "Jameso" whose linky doesn't seem to work any more. Shame it would have really helped you out in this situation.
My Spacer was a 4mm thick hardened steel washer which replaces the wave washer in my input shaft. You have to grind/file off the small lip on the big spacer though for it to fit smoothly. Once done there is a slight increase in noise at slow speeds and neutral, but if you know what it is why worry....

I know a picture is worth a thousand words. So don't cut/file/grind until you're clear what you're doing will ya.

My 'box was shimmed to o.o6or o.o8mm on all shfts which is a task but it shifts like nothing on earth compared to a normal BMW....so easy and smooth it's unreal. It's had about 300kms on it since I finished it and everythings fine. Just a bit of a rumbly noise at slow speeds as I mentioned. See my post on ADV Rider for the bearing part numbers They're all there and only the fat one is BMW OE.

Should be a piece of cake...Good luck

 

[kompost]

Here's the latest.
Thanks very much to ktmmark and changeling i owe you
After the excellent advice i have made a spacer to replace the wavey washer,as shown in photo it is counterbored to clear the step on the collar.(photo 2)
Photo 3 shows it all together.
After some confusion with motorworks they sent me the wrong bits,photo 4 shows the 1150 input shaft that they sent me with the 1100 one.
It appears that they don't have an exploded diagram of the m97 input shaft either,so i ended up sending them photo's of the 1100 shaft.
They are sorting it out and hopefully i will get the right bits on wednesday.
kompost

 

[ktmmark]

Looks like mine