Useful things I have learned today using BaseCamp on a Mac

[Wapping]

You are right about Mapsource and 660 combination showing viapoints / shaping nodes as little flags, that you are not obliged to ride through. Though for a brief period, Mapsource started to just show little dots, too. They then switched back to flags. You can always change the symbol if you feel like it anyway.

I too was surprised with what I found to be happening with routes manually created in BaseCamp and then displayed on a Nav V.

The really odd things is that the shaping nodes (that become Waypoints) do not display in the route properties (or route information, as a Mac / BaseCamp seems to call it). This suggests to me ( just as it does to you) that the conversion is taking place somewhere inside the Nav V itself, when you install the route from the device's internal memory into the Trip Planner app.

To be honest, I don't mind the manual conversion on the device. As I am usually taking a happy band of Wanderers along I always try to check that all the routes are there and will run before I go.

Now that I have found out how to do it, the Nav V makes the conversion really easily. You can also change it back to a yellow flag and back to a viapoint just as easily, too. It has the advantage that you can also name the viapoint, if you really want to. This might be handy if for instance you agreed to meet someone along a road but got delayed. You could change it back to a Waypoint, give it a name and ask the device to take you straight there by the fastest route it could find.

This wekend's jaunt was only a short one but I learnt plenty about how the Nav V works and plenty about BaseCamp. For all the doubters out there, it really is very good. It's also well worth trying it out on real routes and then riding the routes, as you discover how it really works much more quickly.

 

[Bumpkin]

I doubt if it makes a difference but how are you exporting the route from Basecamp to your new GPS?

Drag and drop, 'Device' > 'Send to Device' or 'File' > 'Export' >... ?

Whilst you seem to have mastered a workaround which takes a little fiddling on your Nav V what will happen when you share your routes with others with the same GPS.

Have you made Garmin aware, or does it need to be BMW who then ask Garmin to look into a firmware update to address this?

 

[Wapping]

I shared the unchanged routes with dxtans on this weekend's Wander. It was he that first encountered the problem but that was because he had stopped a route and restarted it. He was then struggling to get it routing properly thereafter.

He too has a Nav 5 but uses BaseCamp on a PC, not on a Mac. He was able to delete the Waypoints via a different method. As we were stood in a car park I tried his method but the option wasn't there for me. That being said, we only spent a minute at it and I wasn't about to hack things about too hard for fear of screwing something up.

I will write to Garmin and BMW with the problem, not least as I have a good relationship with both. They were kind enough to lend me a Nav V to try out late last year. I just want to try out the 'Drag into the box' method suggested by zoot to see if that makes a difference. I also want to see how it treats Favourites, dropped in from BaseCamp. That being said, I am half of the mind that it's not a problem now that I understand what is happening. I spent a happy 30 minutes riding across Belgium and France, trying to fix it on the move without success. In the end I gave up and just followed the crude display of the route and the road signs. On Sunday I missed a flag out on purpose, by taking a short detour, just to make sure I knew what was happening. It was this, coupled to the day before's experience that confirmed to me that shaping nodes really were converting into Waypoints, with all the challenges that represents.

To upload the routes to the device, I highlight it in BaseCamp on my Mac and use the 'Send to device' option. I have always used the same method, including when using my PC, Mapsouce and my 660 / earlier devices. I have found it near enough 100% reliable.

 

[dxtans]

A'h v2.60 , I was on v2.50 ( Nav 5)
"added skip waypoint to map tool"

 

[Wapping]

(C) Self-plotted routes displayed and run on a Nav V - Part 3 - The answer... Answer continued....

I may be wrong some where but when I create waypoints for start and end then drag them to the box, create route, let basecamp make its own way then drag the lines down my roads it makes "via points" dots on my chosen route but no flags. it seams to work but it may be a frig just to make it work and I may only be using part of its functionality hey ho.

Sorry to disappoint but that does not appear to solve the problem.

Just to check we are doing the same thing...

BaseCamp on a Mac

Select Assistants

Drag a start point into the box, drag an end point into the box

BaseCamp calculates route, according to pre-set preferences, displayed as a magenta line

Drag route around using Map Tools 'Arrow' and holding down the alt key

Magenta line moves around, passing through the points you have chosen

No little flags appear on the map on the Mac's screen

Click on route to bring up route info

Each shaping node appears in the list of via points as a dot

Send to Nav V using Transfer - send new list to device

Nav V receives route, converts it.....

According to you, no little yellow flags should appear.... sorry to say they do.... The shaping nodes are now Waypoints, each marked as a little yellow flag

Right back to where we started...... But it hasn't been an entirely wasted effort.... as you will see very shortly.....

 

[Wapping]

(C) Self-plotted routes displayed and run on a Nav V - Part 3 - The answer... Answer continued 2.... CRACKED IT

• Create a route anyway you like
• Drag it about
• Highlight the route
• Right click
• Get Info
• Via points, displayed in a list
• Highlight the via points
• Right click
• Don't alert on arrival (shaping point)
• The via point(s) are now greyed out with (won't alert) in brackets alongside but the arrival date and time are still shown.
• Close box.
• Highlight route.
• Send to Nav V
• Open route on Nav V
• Oh happy day....... what were once created as yellowed flagged waypoints are now little blue via points / shaping nodes.

Just to be sure i created a dummy route, with a load of shaping nodes. I then highlighted every other one and converted each on my Mac as described above. I then sent the route to my Nav V..... BINGO! There was the route, every other via pint now a blue dot or a yellow flag, just as I hoped would happen.

I could then use the Nav V itself to switch each point between a blue dot and a flag at will.

Problem solved. That's it... no more problems!



PS My thanks to everyone who contributed to this topic. zoot gave me the inspiration to look at the route info again and play around with the highlighting and left right clicks on the mouse.

PPS I do owe people a correction on my guide to sorting the problem out on a Nav V......

 

[paul08]

Excellent. Yep, that works nicely. I did wonder where the instruction to "won't alert" was lurking in Basecamp. Thanks

 

[Wapping]

UPDATED 'HOW TO DO IT ON A NAV V' AS PROMISED...



THIS WILL BE USEFUL IF YOU RECEIVE A ROUTE FROM A THIRD PARTY THAT HAS LOTS OF WAYPOINT FLAGS IN IT.....



[*]Ask BaseCamp to create a route from A to B. It will create it exactly according to your pre-set preferences; nothing more, nothing less.


[*]Drag the route around as you see fit, to take it down the roads YOU want it to go down. BaseCamp will recalculate the route each time, creating 'Way points' (or more correctly, 'Shaping points') at each point on the road(s) you have specifically asked the route to take you along.


[*]Do this until the route is EXACTLY as you want it to be. Take a bit of care dragging the route around and where you drop your 'shaping points'.


[*]Export the route to the Nav V as normal.


[*]Go to Apps.


[*]Go to Trip Planner.


[*]Touch the Three Horizontal Lines, this will bring up a screen giving you three options: Delete, Import and Share.


[*]Touch Import.


[*]Select the route you wish to import. It will import into Trip Planner.


[*]Return to Trip Planner.


[*]Touch the route.


[*]This will bring up a 'detail screen' showing amongst other things: The mode of transport, the total distance, the travel time, the start and end points AND the 'shaping points'. The start point has a green flag, the end point a chequered flag and each of the shaping points a yellow flag. Unless you really do want to go through these shaping points, it's these yellow flags that you need to deal with.


[*]Touch the Map button, you will see the route displayed, with the flags. Do this only so that you know what it looks like. If you used lots of shaping points, the route will look like a flag shop with a sale on.


[*]Touch the return button.


[*]You are now back to the detail screen.


[*]Touch the three Three Horizontal Lines.


[*]Touch Edit Destinations. You will see all the flags shown.


[*]Touch a yellow flag. This will bring up a fresh screen with several quite clever options: Duration (you can tell the device how long you intend to stop there). Change Location (you can insert some other location) Remove Location (we'll come back to this) and Rename Location (call it whatever you like).


[*]Touch Remove Location. When prompted that doing so will remove the details and timing, click 'YES'.

TAKE CARE ONLY TO TOUCH THE FLAG. IF YOU TOUCH THE MAIN BODY (NAME) OF THE WAYPOINT AND CLICK 'REMOVE LOCATION' IT WILL BE REMOVED ENTIRELY, NOT CONVERTED. REMOVING IT WILL VERY PROBABLY ALTER YOUR ROUTE.

IF YOU DO BY ACCIDENT MAKE AND THEN CONFIRM A MISTAKEN INSTRUCTION (OR BY MISTAKE DELETE AN ENTIRE ROUTE) ALL IS NOT LOST. THE DEVICE HOLDS AN ORIGINAL UNCHANGED VERSION WITHIN ITS MEMORY. SUMMON IT UP AND START AGAIN. THIS 'UNDELETED' VERSION WILL BE THERE UNTIL YOU NEXT CONNECT THE DEVICE TO A COMPUTER. IT'S A USEFUL SAFETY NET FEATURE


[*]You will now see that what was a yellow flag is now a Blue Dot. BINGO! You are nearly there.... I think.


[*]Repeat as necessary, working down the list, 'Blue Dotting' as many of the yellow flags as you like. Remember, any you leave as yellow flags WILL stay as Waypoints.


[*]Click 'Save'. The route will recalculate.


[*]You will then be taken back to the 'detail screen'.


[*]Touch map. You'll see that what were once yellow flags are now blue dots. They are no longer Waypoints, that you must go through, they are simply 'shaping points' and the the route itself has maintained its integrity.



PS YOU CAN SWITCH THEM BACK TO WAYPOINTS AND BACK TO SHAPING NODES AT WILL. MUCK THEM AROUND, RENAME THEM, DO MUCH AS YOU PLEASE. PLAY AROUND YOU REALLY CANNOT BREAK IT, I'VE TRIED AN I'M AN IT NUMPTY, TRUST ME.

 

[Wapping]

Excellent. Yep, that works nicely. I did wonder where the instruction to "won't alert" was lurking in Basecamp. Thanks

Phew!

It's always good when someone tries it and finds it works.

Richard

 

[Wapping]

(D) Something potentially deadly or at least 'kin annoying.... Map Tools - Hand function

The hand function can be used to move the map around. This is quite useful and it works just as it did in Basecamp.

BUT.... Take care if you have a route displayed. If by chance the hand is over a route IT WILL DRAG THE ROUTE AROUND, TOO. Release the mouse and the amended route stays fixed. In short, you have amended your route, probably without realising.

If you don't realise what you've done, the amended route will be saved automaticaly when you next exit BaseCamp and will still be there the next time you open it up and / or come to use it.

TIP.... Until this glitch is fixed, I suggest you zoom out and drag the map around from a point on the screen well away from your route, or use the Zoom / Detail tool at the bottom.

If anyone knows a fix for this, sing up, please.

 

[paul08]

Phew!

It's always good when someone tries it and finds it works.

Richard

I have noticed one added 'benefit' or consequence of amending all of the "yellow flag" shaping/waypoints to "blue dots/shaping points (won't alert)" in Basecamp before transferring the route to your device:

The route I created needed lots of shaping points to get the route to follow the roads I wanted. The first time I transferred the route to my device (before converting the yellow flags) I got a message that there were too many waypoints and that the Nav V would therefore split the route. Which was okay, as I could see the route part 1 and part 2 and I am sure I could just run the two parts consecutively.

But when I transfer the route after converting the yellow flags to blue dots, I find that the route goes across as a whole, because there are not so many waypoints and the Nav V's limit on waypoints per route is not exceeded.

 

[Wapping]

Good tip, thank you.

I certainly plan to correct the Waypoint flags to blue dots on my Mac before I send routes to my Nav V. But good to know of the device's limitations.

If you use BaseCamps 'elastic banding' to move a route around, instead of point by point by point, it may well create less Waypoint flags. Take a bit of care doing it though as dragging the route in one direction may upset an alteration you have made to the route earlier, for obvious reasons. There is a bit of a knack to it which I am just learning.

I guess you could fix bits of route with real Waypoints and then remove them afterwards, after tugging the rest of the route into shape, perhaps?

Very long, circular or routes that criss-cross each other, I generally break into sensible bite sized chunks of say 150 to 200 miles.

 

[Bumpkin]

Very long, circular or routes that criss-cross each other, I generally break into sensible bite sized chunks of say 150 to 200 miles.

Always sensible to keep routes to one, or even, half days. More flexible and recalculations, if you have them enabled, are much faster.

When using ferries make the embarkation port the destination of the first route and then the disembarkation port the start point of a second route. Load this second route as you're inevitably waiting on the car deck at the end of your crossing but don't actually press the 'Go' button. You will have to stop for a few minutes to let the GPS find itself once you've rolled off the ferry as your GPS won't see any satellites though the steel of the ship. Setting the first point of this route some way down the first road you'll be riding away from the port on means you just select 'navigate to start of route' once it's found itself and you've pressed the 'Go' button.

 

[paul08]

My route was/is a circular one of 350 kms, so a long day but doable (I hope). The reason that I had so many waypoints/shaping points is that the FIM/ADAC route I was trying to recreate drives around all over some quite small back roads in the Eifel and Basecamp certainly needed some help/prompting to choose those roads.

 

[Bumpkin]

My route was/is a circular one of 350 kms, so a long day but doable (I hope). The reason that I had so many waypoints/shaping points is that the FIM/ADAC route I was trying to recreate drives around all over some quite small back roads in the Eifel and Basecamp certainly needed some help/prompting to choose those roads.

I can quite believe it but I have to ask: You have normalised the avoidances for the Motorcycle Profile in Basecamp haven't you? 'Out of the box' Basecamp has some weird settings that try to influence route planing. They're trying to be clever, going for a 'twisty roads' effect, but falling short of they mark and it really messes with most routes where you want to define the route fully yourself.

Anyone used to working with Mapsource, or for that matter, doesn't like being told what to do, should watch this video and make the changes therein. It's for an earlier version of Basecamp on PC but it's the same with later versions (have just done a fresh PC install and it's still like this) and on Mac as well.

Not sure if the Nav 5 has some pre-set avoidances like the 660, worth checking that out as well.

 

[paul08]

Yeah, the avoidances are sorted as per previous advice on here. The "problem" is that the FIM/ADAC route is taking the route down 'back roads' around the Eifel.

Just done the 2nd route (Eifel and Ahrtal) and that didn't need as many shaping points.

I need to do the rides now to see just how small the roads are that FIM/ADAC would have you take. i will report back on that

 

[paul08]

have just checked the avoidances on Basecamp, just to be sure. I only have the following ticked: Interstates, unpaved roads, carpool lanes.

I think that the problem is that for "Calculation mode" you are only given the options: "Fastest Time" or "Shortest Distance" (I have "fastest" ticked) neither of which really apply to the FIM/ADAC routes.

As I said though, I will post back when I have tried riding these roads

 

[Wapping]

What you might try doing is reverting to the default Motorcycle 'wiggly roads' setting and seeing what happens then. What's possibly happening is that the software is probably only trying to do what you have asked it to do... Quickest time.... As you have surmised yourself. You are having to nail it into shape, literally.

If you are indeed using small minor roads it might help.

To give you an idea, it converted a simple route of about 1 hour from my house in central London to the Chunnel at Folkestone straight down the A2 / M2 to one of well over two hours. Useless to anyone outside of the loony department.

 

[paul08]

What you might try doing is reverting to the default Motorcycle 'wiggly roads' setting and seeing what happens then. What's possibly happening is that the software is probably only trying to do what you have asked it to do... Quickest time.... As you have surmised yourself. You are having to nail it into shape, literally.

If you are indeed using small minor roads it might help.

To give you an idea, it converted a simple route of about 1 hour from my house in central London to the Chunnel at Folkestone straight down the A2 / M2 to one of well over two hours. Useless to anyone outside of the loony department.

How do I choose something other than "Fastest time" or "Shortest distance"? I see no other options and no mention of anything like a "wiggly roads setting"

BTW, I have v 4.2.4 of Basecamp on a Mac

 

[Wapping]

Before I followed the instructions in the video at the start of this thread, BaseCamp would plot bizarre routes from A to B, when in motorcycle mode. In short, it plotted routes down every road, goat track and path it could find.

Go into motorcycle activity mode's properties in BaseCamp and tick the boxes that look like they will do the same.