Vision only, best option?

[Dale]

Had a look at all the replies on this thread and just realised that we got distracted (probably my fault ) and didn't really answer the man's question.

Which of the units provides the best vision only screens and instructions.

If you really dont want audio , then for on screen instructions and clarity of screen, the 276 would get my vote.

Dale

 

[PanEuropean]

Has it counted the turning to the bus station as one of the roundabout exits or not?

That particular ambiguity seems to be unique to UK mapping. I have frequently been 'caught' by bus lanes, etc. either counting as exits or not counting as exits while riding in the UK. It seems the chances are about 50-50 either way.

In all other countries, 'private roads' - meaning, any kind of roadway that the general public is not allowed to use, such as entrances to bus stations, bus bays, entrances to works yards, etc. - are never counted as exits.

I think this is something that Navteq will need to clean up in future releases of the cartography. It's the cartographic database that tells the GPSR whether something is an 'exit' or not.

Michael

 

[PanEuropean]

If you really don't want audio, then for on screen instructions and clarity of screen, the 276 would get my vote.

Errrr... not so sure that is a good recommendation for a first-time buyer. Notwithstanding the fact that most 276 owners are very happy with their GPSRs, the 2x6 product line is now two generations old - it has been replaced twice, first by the 3x6 products, and now by the 4x6 products.

The on-screen presentation of cartography and printed text of the 276, which was long it's strong point, has now been equalled in the 27xx and 28xx series of automotive GPSRs. Although the xx6 units continue to have a taller screen than the 27xx and 28xx units, and thus present a larger picture, the level of detail in the picture (the pixellation) on the 27xx and 28xx is now the equal of that on the 276 and its successors. Plus, the layout of the information on the screen of the newer automotive units (anything released in the past 12 months) is now pretty much the same as the layout of the screen on the 276.

The big downside associated with the 276 is that it doesn't support Custom POI databases (speed camera databases), doesn't support use of a FM traffic information receiver for real time traffic information, and doesn't come preloaded with the full set of European maps.

A 276 would not be a good choice for a first time buyer who intends to use the GPSR primarily on public roads. It's still a favourite of the folks who ride off road a lot and put a priority on off road GPS performance, but it would be a poor choice for folks who want the GPSR guidance primarily for on-road operations.

Michael

 

[HMR]

Notwithstanding the fact that most 276 owners are very happy with their GPSRs, the 2x6 product line is now two generations old - it has been replaced twice, first by the 3x6 products, and now by the 4x6 products.

Wrong. Neither the 3x6 nor the 4x6 adds much value for the biker.

The on-screen presentation of cartography and printed text of the 276, which was long it's strong point, has now been equalled in the 27xx and 28xx series of automotive GPSRs. Although the xx6 units continue to have a taller screen than the 27xx and 28xx units, and thus present a larger picture, the level of detail in the picture (the pixellation) on the 27xx and 28xx is now the equal of that on the 276

Wrong. The 276C has 40% more pixels (=detail) than the 27xx and the 28xx.

The big downside associated with the 276 is that it doesn't support Custom POI databases

Right. This is a downside. Another downside is that it doesn't support full post code search.

A 276 would not be a good choice for a first time buyer who intends to use the GPSR primarily on public roads. It's still a favourite of the folks who ride off road a lot and put a priority on off road GPS performance, but it would be a poor choice for folks who want the GPSR guidance primarily for on-road operations.

Wrong again. The 276C is superior on all kinds of small countryside roads. Paved or gravel. Public or private. Not only off road. The 2720 & 2820 are better on motorways and in big cities - but who want to ride a bike in such places anyway?

The 276C is getting a little old now OK. We are looking forward to a new version "276Cx" with POI-support and SD-card but for the time being there is nothing that can beat the current 276C for small road riding!

 

[PanEuropean]

Oh my Gawd...

Didn't we go through this whole thing once before?

I don't want to get into one of these 'point by point, he said - she said' rebuttals - it's a waste of time. However, in your single-minded efforts to be a cheerleader for one particular GPSR model - rather than trying to provide a balanced overview of all the options that are available to a new user who has asked for guidance (read the original poster's question, please!), you have made a number of flat-out inaccurate statements.

The 3x6 and 4x6 GPSRs introduced faster processors (by example, 5 Hz screen refresh speed on the 496) and added support for some seriously useful features. By example, the 496 supports Custom POIs (speed camera databases) and audio and visual alerting of speed cameras, same as a 2820 does, as well greatly increased track log capacity. That doesn't exactly support your statement that "Neither the 3x6 nor the 4x6 adds much value for the biker."

The xx6 series has 40% more pixels simply because the screen is 40% bigger. When I spoke about 'level of pixellation' in my post above, I referred to pixels per square inch. It's obvious that if two units display the map at the same level of resolution, but one unit has a 40% bigger screen, it's going to have 40% more pixels. The 276, 376, and 496 all have exactly the same number of pixels from one side of the display to the other as the 27xx / 28xx- that being 480 pixels. The display on the 276 et al has a 40% taller aspect ratio (in other words, it's taller) - that's where the extra pixels come from. I made that very clear in my original post.

I really don't know where you are coming from with your comment about the 276 being "superior on all kinds of small countryside roads. Paved or gravel. Public or private". I mean, for Pete's sake, all these GPSRs use the same map data, and display exactly the same streets and roads on the screen at any given time. By making silly statements like you did, all you are going to do is confuse newbies who might think "gee, maybe there are more roads contained inside a 276 than there are inside any other GPSR, because HMR says it does a better job on smaller countryside roads".

Lastly, your comment "We are looking forward to a 276Cx" is flat-out misleading. There will never be such a thing, any more than there will be a 'StreetPilot III Cx' with the same features you talk about. If you want a GPSR that is similar to a 276 that supports Custom POI's, you should go out and buy a current production product (e.g. 496) which does have Custom POI support. As for the question of SD support in these units - these GPSRs support the legacy Garmin datacard format because many mariners (the primary buyers of 276 GPSRs) own a library of marine cartography that was purchased, preloaded, on legacy Garmin datacards. Garmin is committed to supporting the investment that these mariners have in these data cards. The next step in xx6 storage media has already been taken with the release of the 378 and 478 - these come with all the marine maps and the road maps preloaded in non-vol memory - same as the newer automotive devices such as the 27xx and 28xx. That train has already left the station.

You do no-one any favours by posting inaccurate and misleading information. Get over your fetish, already.

Michael

 

[HMR]

Oh my Gawd...
The 3x6 and 4x6 GPSRs introduced faster processors (by example, 5 Hz screen refresh speed on the 496) and added support for some seriously useful features. By example, the 496 supports Custom POIs (speed camera databases) and audio and visual alerting of speed cameras, same as a 2820 does, as well greatly increased track log capacity. That doesn't exactly support your statement that "Neither the 3x6 nor the 4x6 adds much value for the biker."

Dear Michael,
I assumed that you knew that the list price of the 496 is $2400 while the list price on the 276C is $750.

With "value" I meant "value for the money". Sorry for being so implicit...

And - why are all owners of the 276C and the 60Cx so happy with their devices? Why are there so few of these models available on the second hand market?

The reason is that there is nothing better available (that a normal biker can afford). One can't "upgrade" from a 276C.

 

[chasr]

HMR,

If it's 'value for money' you want, then surely a Quest 1 (£150) or i3 (£99) would be better? Or a paper map?

And how many 'normal bikers' can afford a 1200GS?

Just because you think the 276 is the best think since sliced olives, doesn't make it true. You can't put the thing in your pocket. It's pigging ugly. Makes the bike top heavy .... and so on.

Get a life, mate

 

[HMR]

HMR,
If it's 'value for money' you want, then surely a Quest 1 (£150) would be better?

I agree with that. At least for most bikers.

A 276C would cost you 4 times that money. But if you have the money and if you want to have the best device on the market for small road riding.....

Please note that there is no such thing as the "best" GPS. The different models have different advantages and different prices.

- A Quest for £150 may be the best choise when money is an issue. (Always?)
- The 276C may be the best choise for active riding on curvy roads.
- The 60Cx may be the best choise if you also want a pocket GPS.
- The 2820 may be the best choise for passive cruising on motorways.
- etc, etc, etc.

My point is that PanEuropean is heavilly promoting the latest StreetPilot models only. But he is a passive motorway cruiser and his opinions are mainly valid for that category. I think it's important to point out that the large groupe of active riders of Ducati, GS, HP2, KTM, etc, who love crazy curve fighting may not have the same needs.

For this group neither "post code search" nor "toll zone avoidance" nor "voice prompts" are the big issues. They may instead value a high resolution moving map (co-driver) and the ability to upload tracks (to be used as routes) in areas where the maps are poor as in Spain, Italy, Greece & Ireland.

 

[PanEuropean]

My point is that PanEuropean is heavilly promoting the latest StreetPilot models only.

Jeepers, I'm not 'promoting' anything. I don't work for Garmin, and I have never received a dime in compensation from them.

What I am trying to do is ensure that newbies who come here and ask for advice concerning selection of a GPSR (again, please go back and read the original poster's request) are provided with all the information that they need to make a well-informed decision.

Some of the products that have been released in past years have been home-run hits. The SP III, the 276, and the 2610 come to mind. However, there have been a lot of advances in the last 3 years - most notably the Custom POI warning feature and the FM traffic advisory feature - that may be of great value to riders who live in the UK, a very heavily populated and urbanized country that is the primary area that this forum serves. Their needs are very different than those of someone who lives in rural Sweden.

I made reference to the 496 because that is the unit I am familiar with from having tested it. As you are well aware, I'm an aircraft pilot, so I use the -96 versions (aviation, marine, and automotive) rather than the -76 versions (marine and automotive only). I wouldn't recommend that anyone who does not need the aviation functionality purchase a -96, but hey, that's self-evident, I don't think it needs to be written out in black and white. I don't know when (or if) Garmin will release a 476. There are now so many different models available, it's really hard to keep track of everything... which means it is more important that ever that users are aware of what major 'features' are and are not included in each GPSR, so they can make an informed purchase decision based on the feature set that is important to them.

Give folks the facts, give them ALL the facts, and they will usually wind up getting a device that best suits their unique needs. It's not necessary - or helpful - to advocate for one particular product unless the nature of the original request points pretty clearly to one particular product. Go read the OP's question again.

Michael

 

[ivanwarwick]

Which GPS to buy

OK I have real all the posts on GPS to see if I can get to the bottom of which of them to buy for my GS. I live in Northern Ireland and would spend most of my time around Ireland, with a once or twice a year visit to Scotland, England or Wales. Have only ventured across to Europe on one occasion, not because I don’t want to simply a matter of time.

I’m willing to spend what ever it takes to get a good system. The Garmin Streetpilot 2720 looks like a contender. My main concern is the map detail. I purchased a Garmin III some years back and I only had it a couple of weeks and sold it again, simply because there was no map detail of North or South Ireland. OK they detailed the streets in Belfast and Dublin but nothing else. What I like to do is take all the B and C roads and avoid cities, motorways and some A roads. Is there anyone who could advise – has the map detail improved for all of Ireland and not just the 2 motorways? Yes I said 2 and that’s all we have over here in North Ireland and to be honest that’s all we need or want.

 

[Twotter]

Is there anyone who could advise – has the map detail improved for all of Ireland and not just the 2 motorways? Yes I said 2 and that’s all we have over here in North Ireland and to be honest that’s all we need or want.

I have a 2610 running City Navigator V.8 and that shows a lot more detail than just two motorways for the Emerald Isle

 

[Steptoe]

But he is a passive motorway cruiser and his opinions are mainly valid for that category. I think it's important to point out that the large groupe of active riders of Ducati, GS, HP2, KTM, etc, who love crazy curve fighting may not have the same needs.

I use a 2610, and it can do all that as well.

Then find you a campsite or hotel at the end of a twisty bend day

 

[Twotter]

My point is that PanEuropean is heavilly promoting the latest StreetPilot models only. But he is a passive motorway cruiser and his opinions are mainly valid for that category. I think it's important to point out that the large groupe of may not have the same needs.

For this group neither "post code search" nor "toll zone avoidance" nor "voice prompts" are the big issues. They may instead value a high resolution moving map (co-driver) and the ability to upload tracks (to be used as routes) in areas where the maps are poor as in Spain, Italy, Greece & Ireland.

Is it just me or can anyone else see the irony of "active riders of Ducati, GS, HP2, KTM, etc, who love crazy curve fighting" staring at the tv screen of a 276, whilst the thread started off looking at the merits of visual vs audio navigation ???

Maybe it's me

I've got to say HMR that, just as a guess like, those 'active riders' are going to have similar needs to the the rest of us...you know petrol, food , somewhere to stay etc...as Steptoe suggests, whilst probably concentrating on the road that they're currently battling with on the way.

I'm really glad you like your 276 but clearly they're not for everyone (or we'd all have one - which we don't). Personally I thought them too expensive and too big for my needs. Now perhaps I'm just poor (all donations gratefully received btw) but I've found my navigating needs have been more than adequately catered for by first a Quest 1, and subsequently a 2610. I'm one of the vision only brigade as I don't feel the need for audio instructions. Mind you my wfie prefers audio to visual when she uses the GPS in the car - women eh

Having said all that I'm happy for you that your 276 fulfills your navigation needs and that you're not left wondering why you spent so much money on a GPS that doesn't do what you need it to.

Now a suggestion for new gser. Since I'm just down the road from you I could pop over and you could see if my 2610 fits the bill when it comes to the question of screen size and vision.

No pressure but it will cost you a cup of tea

 

[HMR]

I've got to say HMR that, just as a guess like, those 'active riders' are going to have similar needs to the the rest of us...you know petrol, food , somewhere to stay etc...as Steptoe suggests, whilst probably concentrating on the road that they're currently battling with on the way.

I'm really glad you like your 276 but clearly they're not for everyone

Who said that I have a 276C?

I'm obviously not getting through with my message. I'm trying to say that there is no such thing as the perfect navigator. Different bikers have different needs and each biker should select a model that suits his needs.

Again:
- The Street Pilot models, the Quests, and the Zumo are probably the better choise for the Harley Parkinson rider cruising on the highways.
- The 276C and the 60Cx are probably better choises for the active Ducati & KTM riders on the countryside roads.

All of the waterproof Garmin models will probably do a good job for the newbee. Go ahead and buy whatever model you prefer. The risk of becoming disappointed is very small.

If you want to see where I use my navigator & my R12GS take a look at this. It's me with the red helmet. We are riding in France on roads that are not on the Garmin map. Our routes are uploaded to the navigator as tracks. None of the Street Pilot models will work here but the 276C and the 60Cx will.

 

[Twotter]

What a lovely film clip. Though I'd like to see the 'active rider' on his Ducati attacking those corners

 

[Steptoe]

Again:
- The Street Pilot models, the Quests, and the Zumo are probably the better choise for the Harley Parkinson rider cruising on the highways.
- The 276C and the 60Cx are probably better choises for the active Ducati & KTM riders on the countryside roads.

. We are riding in France on roads that are not on the Garmin map. Our routes are uploaded to the navigator as tracks. None of the Street Pilot models will work here but the 276C and the 60Cx will.

What utter crap generalised assumptions about " if you've a harley you'll be on the highways "

Just because the road may not appear on your GPS doesn't mean you'll not go down it - GPS is a very useful tool and guide, not a "must obey" instrument

 

[Mutley]

As an ex-member of the Ducati owners club I can happily state that they are some of the least 'active' riders out there, especially if they think it might rain

 

[charlie b]

As an ex-member of the Ducati owners club I can happily state that they are some of the least 'active' riders out there, especially if they think it might rain

BTW...
What is an 'active' rider, where can they be found and,
how can we identify them???

I think we should be told....



New gser...
Half an hours demonstration can answer a lot of your questions. I run a 2720 very happily now after disappintment with a slow Quest 2, depends what you want but a very good offer of Twotters to start the process so you begin to get a handle on GPS's.
There is a lot of choice out there and opinions, , so do your research, talk to people and you'll find what works for you... good luck.

 

[PanEuropean]

I live in Northern Ireland and would spend most of my time around Ireland, with a once or twice a year visit to Scotland, England or Wales...

Ivan:

A fairly large part of the cost of a GPSR (any GPSR) is the royalties paid on the maps that are installed in the GPSR. I think that there may be some waterproof models sold in Great Britain that only come with Great Britain and Ireland (Republic) loaded on them... no mapping of Continental Europe. If my guess is correct, then have a look at price and feature sets on those - you might be able to save quite a bit of money.

My main concern is the map detail...

If you are purchasing a Garmin GPSR that comes with maps preloaded on it, then don't worry about map detail. The maps are exactly the same - meaning, they show the very same streets, roads, and paths - regardless of whether you purchase a $200 GPSR or a $2,000 GPSR. Spending more money or buying a certain specific model will NOT give you any additional map detail.

It is possible that when you purchase a new GPSR that has maps preloaded on it, they may be one generation out of date. This is not a concern at all, as long as you are buying the GPSR new - meaning, you are the first user. In such cases, Garmin will give you a free update to the most recent release of the cartography (maps).

Michael

 

[PanEuropean]

- The Street Pilot models, the Quests, and the Zumo are probably the better choise for the Harley Parkinson rider cruising on the highways.
- The 276C and the 60Cx are probably better choises for the active Ducati & KTM riders on the countryside roads.

Please, don't try to talk authoritatively about things you know nothing about - for example, the feature set of the Zumo.

When that product is released, I think you will find that your statement above looks very foolish indeed. Please have a look at the specifications for the Zumo that can be found on the Garmin website: Zumo Information.

You might want to pay special attention to the two sentences that read: zūmo.. makes it easy to... share routes with your riding buddies. Plan trips on your computer before you start... Then, transfer your route to zūmo and go. ...SD card expansion makes it easy for storage and route sharing. Download routes to share with your riding buddies...

There's more to it than that, but if you read the excerpt I have posted above, I think you will see what I mean. I have snipped out some text that is not relevant so you can see the general theme of what's coming. Would be kind of nice to be able to pop your SD card out of the GPSR, give it to your riding buddy for 30 seconds, and all of a sudden he has the same routes and tracks on his GPSR as you have on yours, don't you think?

Please, be careful what you write. When you post inaccurate information - your own interpretation of something, or your own speculation, and you try to pass it off as fact, you do no-one any good. Don't try to pretend you know something when, in fact, you are not entirely sure of the facts. It confuses people, and I am getting tired of having to toss up 'red flags' whenever you post incorrect information.

Michael