I have the heated base layer and it's superb 
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Warm’n’Safe - USA
- Thread starter Wapping
- Start date
Base layers look like the way to go. Personally I've spent me money on the 'liners'. But when the time comes, I'll probably go for the base layers
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Glad that you had a great experience with W&S, I was in the same frame of mind, until I had problems and the chap in the US wriggled out of their lifetime warranty.
The wires in the receiver part of the wireless unit had come off, and the trousers burned my left leg.
It was my fault for misusing the kit, and the trousers must have been an element issue and it was only the wires that were covered in trouser element. As they couldn’t give a toss, I looked at the inside if the trousers (you can effectively turn them inside out) and the wire had shorted where it joins an element.
At the time, the UK agent said he was giving up with them as he was also fed up with warranty disputes.
I know it’s all a bit of a lottery and the quality of kit seems to vary, I recall my first Gerbing gloves were with them more than me, and Keis told me that their new gloves kept switching off because of low voltage on the bike and it was my fault, (other brands with non controller on the back of the gloves worked fine).
That being said I think they all have small print on their lifetime warranty, and all have product issues from time to time, I like the ability to have UK support (for what it’s worth) I currently favour Gerbing as you can go into their shop in Kent and and speak to them.
Just my experiences of course .
The wires in the receiver part of the wireless unit had come off, and the trousers burned my left leg.
It was my fault for misusing the kit, and the trousers must have been an element issue and it was only the wires that were covered in trouser element. As they couldn’t give a toss, I looked at the inside if the trousers (you can effectively turn them inside out) and the wire had shorted where it joins an element.
At the time, the UK agent said he was giving up with them as he was also fed up with warranty disputes.
I know it’s all a bit of a lottery and the quality of kit seems to vary, I recall my first Gerbing gloves were with them more than me, and Keis told me that their new gloves kept switching off because of low voltage on the bike and it was my fault, (other brands with non controller on the back of the gloves worked fine).
That being said I think they all have small print on their lifetime warranty, and all have product issues from time to time, I like the ability to have UK support (for what it’s worth) I currently favour Gerbing as you can go into their shop in Kent and and speak to them.
Just my experiences of course .
I have two pairs of the "classic" glove. Had the both for 15 years now.
A bit chunky, but wouldn't be without them in cold weather.
Still waterproof.
Similar issue for me with Keis.
I’ve have had a jacket, waistcoat and gloves for a few years and they have served me very well. I like the waistcoat in Autumn and Spring when it gets a bit nippy in the evenings and you don’t necessarily need the full effects of a jacket, but just a bit of heat to the core area to stay comfortable. I’ve used the jacket for five years but on a recent trip my right hand glove stopped working and I traced the fault back to the integrated cable in the sleeve.
Montohaus are the Keis distributor, now so I contacted them and returned the jacket under their “Lifetime Warranty”. Unfortunately this doesn’t apparently apply to the cables, only the heating elements (it’s the same for W&S I believe). They couldn’t repair the fault easily, and wouldn’t replace under warranty, so just provided me with a separate wiring harness to use with the gloves, which is not really very convenient to use.
I guess I could take the jacket apart and try and fix it myself, but I can’t be arsed right now and thought I would try out Warm and Safe instead and see if the Baselayer is a good way forward!
Just looks like whatever brand you choose you have to treat the cabling with care!
I have the heated base layer and it's superb
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I have the heated jacket liner and it is excellent. But if I was to buy again, I would probably get the base layer just because it gets the heat even closer to your skin, so you run it at less power.
I used to wear a micro fleece under the jacket, but discovered I actually get better warmth if I wear a thin mesh long sleeve t-shirt under it. Something I would normally wear in hot weather - but it just works better and has less bulk. I never need the jacket above half power, no matter how cold it is.
Exactly that Adam, heat close to body!
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I’m with adm1 on this.
Rukka jacket, from which I remove the lining on day one (and from the trousers) never to see them return.
Thin Moreno wool long sleeved base layer. Then the Warm’n’Safe electric liner. Then the Rukka on top. Perfect.
Rukka jacket, from which I remove the lining on day one (and from the trousers) never to see them return.
Thin Moreno wool long sleeved base layer. Then the Warm’n’Safe electric liner. Then the Rukka on top. Perfect.
That's pretty much how I'm using the gear too.
I've come to like the ability to actually warm up on a ride!
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Me too. Nice to ride without the bulk as well.
Tried the base layer and inner gloves yesterday for the first time on a ride up to the frozen wastelands of the North (well West Midlands). Temperature when I left was 1.5 degrees, which rose gradually during the day to about 6-8 degrees, but with a pretty cold wind, so I guess the best description would be “a bit nippy”!
My general observations in no particular order as follows, with firstly the good bits:
- Well made, fits close, comfortable and can’t feel the wires once it’s on
- The dual controller is amazing and lets you get just the right amount of heat. I fitted it onto the top of the clutch reservoir which was ideal
- The glove liners worked really well with my second choice of gloves. Bit fiddly to get on but found the right technique and now no problem
- The liners seem to give a much nicer warmth than my Keis gloves. The Keis work well but I would sometimes get red marks on the back of my hands where the temp was a bit high. The liners seem to provide just the right amount of heat around you fingers
- Unlike Wappers, I put the liner back into my Rukka as it is supposed to have good heat retention and is very thin. I then just wore the base layer underneath and that system worked really well, even at prolonged motorway speeds. You could, or course, substitute the liner with a thin mid-layer
For me, it’s the excellent dual controller which really makes this kit, as you can get really fine adjustment on the base layer and gloves independently, I was able to get the heat just right for the riding I was doing. A bit higher for motorways and then back off a touch for B-roads and town. I never turned either dial above half way so a lot more heat to come if needed.
And for balance a couple of thoughts about issues:
- The Base layer is great, but you need to wear it from when you get ready to go out - you can’t just pop it on by the roadside if the temp drops a bit
- For me the big advantage of a jacket, or waistcoat, is you can tuck it away whilst riding in the daytime then pop it on easily in the evenings when the temp drops
- By wearing the Base layer next to your skin, you will presumably need to eventually wash it. W&S say this is no problem but I’m not sure how that works with wires so will have to report back when the time comes. Maybe others have done this with no issues
- I’m not sure how well a baslayer would work if you intend to wander around off the bike much. The wires are quite visible inside it and a jacket could be the better option as it looks more normal attire, and you can take it off much more easily.
- Finally W&S don’t make a waistcoat/gilet version, which I find odd as there are times when you just want to warm your core up slightly without any build around your arms (maybe I’m just a bit odd in that respect though
)
Overall, I am most impressed. I’ve been wearing heated gear for the best part of 30 years having started with a Widder waistcoat, and the technology has advanced massively in that time.
The Warm and Safe stuff is every bit as good as the Keis, and in some respects better, mainly due to their controller. I suspect I will be buying their jacket soon, but in the meantime will be keeping both the W&S and Keis wiring harnesses on the bikes so still have the option to use my Keis waistcoat!
warmnsafe.com
Registered user
why would you say we don't give a toss? did you contact us and we ignored you? if you have a photo if the wire getting exposed, email it to us so we can see what happened. if it is manufacturing issue then we fix it or replace it but often we ask questions, people don't see the email because it goes to their spam folder. we always give a toss. and so does Motolegends.
warmnsafe.com
Registered user
reply to observation on Warm & Safe Gear
i agree with all that you are saying except for one point which i will get to. the heated base layer came out of developing a product for off bike use with a 7.4V battery. bikers liked it so we made a controller that would run it at 12V plus without the fear of getting burned. but then bikers wanted to use it with 12V gear they had. so, we made a 12V version. it was designed for day rides. it is less than half the heat of the jacket liner and no wind stop ability. i agree that if you wear it daily you have to wash it. i am not happy using Polyester and wanted a different fabric but even before Covid, we could not get it. we tried to make the jacket liner as neutral temperature as we could, but you are right, mid-day you often have to pack it away. but it is better for longer trips since it can function as a light jacket at night and if you need to work on the bike the reflective is useful.
as for a vest or what you call a waistcoat. when our fist controller, actual Version 6, was ripped off by 3 US companies and taken to China to copy and we decided we needed to make heated clothing, we made samples of a vest based on the jacket liner Sue had developed for me to use. no one wanted it. they all wanted the jacket liner Sue made for me. the stretch panels, now copied by everyone, the body tight, copied by others, the design of the heat panels, the coax plugs and the fleece neck, all copied now. so, we dropped the idea of the vest.
what we have found over the years is no one comes to us looking for cheap and maybe a vest is looked at as bulky and cheap. for example, so may others sell a cheap 3 level controller. we did that to join with our 65Watt liner. of the 500 we made, and they have a remote control, 10 years later we have 200 left. they are less expensive but not cheaply made. true they use the same Mosfet we used 20 years ago, the same that other use now, we use something very different in our other controllers, so they are the same or better quality as all the other 3 level controllers on the market except it come with a remote control as well. but they just sit in inventory.
i agree with all that you are saying except for one point which i will get to. the heated base layer came out of developing a product for off bike use with a 7.4V battery. bikers liked it so we made a controller that would run it at 12V plus without the fear of getting burned. but then bikers wanted to use it with 12V gear they had. so, we made a 12V version. it was designed for day rides. it is less than half the heat of the jacket liner and no wind stop ability. i agree that if you wear it daily you have to wash it. i am not happy using Polyester and wanted a different fabric but even before Covid, we could not get it. we tried to make the jacket liner as neutral temperature as we could, but you are right, mid-day you often have to pack it away. but it is better for longer trips since it can function as a light jacket at night and if you need to work on the bike the reflective is useful.
as for a vest or what you call a waistcoat. when our fist controller, actual Version 6, was ripped off by 3 US companies and taken to China to copy and we decided we needed to make heated clothing, we made samples of a vest based on the jacket liner Sue had developed for me to use. no one wanted it. they all wanted the jacket liner Sue made for me. the stretch panels, now copied by everyone, the body tight, copied by others, the design of the heat panels, the coax plugs and the fleece neck, all copied now. so, we dropped the idea of the vest.
what we have found over the years is no one comes to us looking for cheap and maybe a vest is looked at as bulky and cheap. for example, so may others sell a cheap 3 level controller. we did that to join with our 65Watt liner. of the 500 we made, and they have a remote control, 10 years later we have 200 left. they are less expensive but not cheaply made. true they use the same Mosfet we used 20 years ago, the same that other use now, we use something very different in our other controllers, so they are the same or better quality as all the other 3 level controllers on the market except it come with a remote control as well. but they just sit in inventory.
warmnsafe.com
Registered user
we worked with RiderZ for years but then he got mad when we said he could not discount the product. we never agreed to use our name for his website. i think these are normal requests but he got upset and decided to not sell our product. he seems like a nice guy. i rode a lot in Wales and preferred it over other places but then when the EU happened, and we took our bike from the continent to England with our very out of date Oregon plates on it, they started to ask questions about just how long the bike was in the EU, things no one asked in the rest of Europe, we stopped coming. we rode in Morocco and Tunisa, came back to France or Spain and no one cared about it. i miss all the pubs and B&Bs and how people would invite us in.
Thank you for the news and for replying to my original email about shipping to the UK so quickly, the subject of which sparked my opening post.
Great gear and great service.
Richard
Great gear and great service.
Richard
My biggest gripe with your liner (which I use extensively) is that you omitted a panel on the stomach.
Frankly - a stupid decision!
On a bike it it one of the first places to get hit with cold air and your liner does nothing to combat this.
Don't get me wrong - I wear the liner a lot(always with a very thin next to skin UA or Skinz under it to save needing to wash it as often) BUT leaving out that panel makes it extremely frustrating given that your jackets all heat this area.
I know you said it is to keep the consumption down but when you made it 12V there is no logical reason to omit it for the minimal increase. 7.4V - ok but on a 12V version it lowers massively the overall level of quality and usability of the item.
The reason for the liner over the jacket it that the modern Rukka goretex Pro cuffs are far too snug to comfortably use the jacket whereas the liner works perfectly with it having no cuff of its own increasing bulk in this area.
Seriously - you have an almost perfect product. It could so easily be absolutely perfect.
Frankly - a stupid decision!
On a bike it it one of the first places to get hit with cold air and your liner does nothing to combat this.
Don't get me wrong - I wear the liner a lot(always with a very thin next to skin UA or Skinz under it to save needing to wash it as often) BUT leaving out that panel makes it extremely frustrating given that your jackets all heat this area.
I know you said it is to keep the consumption down but when you made it 12V there is no logical reason to omit it for the minimal increase. 7.4V - ok but on a 12V version it lowers massively the overall level of quality and usability of the item.
The reason for the liner over the jacket it that the modern Rukka goretex Pro cuffs are far too snug to comfortably use the jacket whereas the liner works perfectly with it having no cuff of its own increasing bulk in this area.
Seriously - you have an almost perfect product. It could so easily be absolutely perfect.
Welcome to the forum - nice to have you here.
I can confirm that Motolegends certainly do give a toss. I had one of the dual wireless controllers where one of the battery contacts broke off. It was out of warranty, so I dropped into Motolegends intending to buy a new controller (which comes with the receiver and all the wiring), but they looked out back and found a box of spare parts. They had a controller without the battery cover, I had the battery cover from my old controller, so they sorted me out for a very reasonable fee. Everybody was happy.
Service is always excellent at Motolegends and I have been very happy with my Warm 'n' Safe gear. It has kept me both warm and safe!
I ventures into Motolegends on Friday and purchased the Warm and Safe jacket as I wanted something that packs up small and can be chucked on if the temperature drops whilst you are out and about.
Have to say it's a fabulous bit of kit - very thin and light and fitted easily under the Belstaff I had on.
Used it on the way home and the heat it produces is amazing, I actually had to turn it down from half heat as I was feckin roasting!!!
Have to say it's a fabulous bit of kit - very thin and light and fitted easily under the Belstaff I had on.
Used it on the way home and the heat it produces is amazing, I actually had to turn it down from half heat as I was feckin roasting!!!
Err... isn't there a zip down the middle? You mean you want a heated zipper?
Just how big is your belly? I mean, I have never ever heard of anyone complaining about their belly getting cold? Other parts yes, but not their belly...There has to be a draft getting in past the outer jacket front closure/zip/flap?
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Very strange....because my Warm 'n Safe jacket liner has heating pads on the stomach. One on each side of the zip. And I get a very toasty tummy!
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