i'm ok with the stelvio front end. TBH it's all the crappy meccano on the back end that bothers me. otherwise, a spot on summary of Moto Guzzi these days.
i recommend a new beemer, and a 70's guzzi (or 2 maybe ).
Was considering an MS but went for the GSA
- Thread starter dongleplonk
- Start date
i'm ok with the stelvio front end. TBH it's all the crappy meccano on the back end that bothers me. otherwise, a spot on summary of Moto Guzzi these days.
i recommend a new beemer, and a 70's guzzi (or 2 maybe ).
illustratedman
Registered user
Not being funny but why are you even discussing this, if you think the beemer is going to cost you in terms of servicing and worried about it's reliability dont buy one. No brainer really, i certainly would'nt spend my money on something i was going to worry about failing. All bikes have problems, mates cb1300r exhaust rotted through silencer fell off (legendary honda quality) most hondas ive seen have paint worn through from boots/ trousers rubbing. Saw the same on a vfr1200 demo the other day, my old man used to have a honda dealership, good bikes but they do have problems. Yamaha fjr1300 is the most reliable i've come across but you've gotta keep on top of cleaning the brakes, but look at the build quality on a super tenere i know they're built to a budget but ive seen new ones in the showroom with rusty fasteners. Every kwack i've had has had thin paint on the wheels otherwise no problems, and my local dealer charges £30 an hour so cheap servicing. I'm restoring an old gpz900r at the mo and kawasaki parts prices are horrendous for some items so not cheap in that respect. Bmw are cheap/reasonable parts wise and your £400 qoute is at least £100 more than i've ever paid for mine, suggest you shop around.
Gotta at least ride the Stelvio, the comments about latest ones Vs those of twenty years ago sound the same as what is said of BMW.
I found the honesty of GW about the Guzzi backup very refreshing, still really fancy a go, but I would have to really like it to take the gamble (although IMO no more of a gamble than a new BMW)
I can live with poor finish on bolts as they are cheap to replace and do not leave you stranded at the side of the road, same with thin paint on Wheels (admittedly one area where my BMW impresses is actually quality of paint, despite many here sayng that has gone downhill, compared to Suzuki and Kawasaki wheels the GS paint is amazing)
I have never found any Jap bikes great on finish, Honda's tend to be a shade above the others. But for reliability I have known many ZZR's, VFR's and Blackbirds top 100k with little or no problems - just the odd wheel bearing, steering head bearings, worn shocks etc. I doubt too many GS get past 50k on the original FD and has anyone managed to get to 100k on one?
After seeing some of the parts compaints here (like £100+ for a sidestand switch) I really cannot see how anyone can call BMW spare cheap.
Good luck with the GPZ900R, a fantastic machine, I had one for 5 years - the longest I have ever owned the same bike. I am sure you are aware, but just in case - make sure you clean out the sump, they can get a bit sludged if ridden too slowly a lot and then when caned the sludge gets sucked into oil pickup and starves the bottom end - easy job to do. They also upped the oil feed pipes diameter to the cams - if it is an early one make sure this has also been done.
I found the honesty of GW about the Guzzi backup very refreshing, still really fancy a go, but I would have to really like it to take the gamble (although IMO no more of a gamble than a new BMW)
I can live with poor finish on bolts as they are cheap to replace and do not leave you stranded at the side of the road, same with thin paint on Wheels (admittedly one area where my BMW impresses is actually quality of paint, despite many here sayng that has gone downhill, compared to Suzuki and Kawasaki wheels the GS paint is amazing)
I have never found any Jap bikes great on finish, Honda's tend to be a shade above the others. But for reliability I have known many ZZR's, VFR's and Blackbirds top 100k with little or no problems - just the odd wheel bearing, steering head bearings, worn shocks etc. I doubt too many GS get past 50k on the original FD and has anyone managed to get to 100k on one?
After seeing some of the parts compaints here (like £100+ for a sidestand switch) I really cannot see how anyone can call BMW spare cheap.
Good luck with the GPZ900R, a fantastic machine, I had one for 5 years - the longest I have ever owned the same bike. I am sure you are aware, but just in case - make sure you clean out the sump, they can get a bit sludged if ridden too slowly a lot and then when caned the sludge gets sucked into oil pickup and starves the bottom end - easy job to do. They also upped the oil feed pipes diameter to the cams - if it is an early one make sure this has also been done.
I have a friend that has a Moto Guzzi Norge - he was waiting 18 months for a replacement top box under warranty - all because the lock had broken preventing the box being secured - so spares are a big issue.
Had a similar dilemma - helped in some part as I had previous experience with a couple of early 1200GS's - but really liked the look of the Ducati Multistrada - decided on a loaded 2008 GS instead - would have liked to try the Yamaha Super Tenere though, as the power curves look fantastic.
Funny how if I mention 400 FPC failures I get shot down as everyone claims they "are rare occurences" yet talk of a Guzzi and they are shite cos one person on the planet had a top box issue 
Pot / Kettle 
Not only has this forum put me of BMW's it has now convinced me the Guzzi is shite as well, now if you lot can talk me out of the Honda and Yamaha I can give up biking and save a bloody fortune.
May do a load more diving, as long as BMW don't start making regulators I should be OK.
Wish I had lifted one of them BSA's of the Thistlegorm last month, brand new and ready to roll.
Pot / Kettle Not only has this forum put me of BMW's it has now convinced me the Guzzi is shite as well, now if you lot can talk me out of the Honda and Yamaha I can give up biking and save a bloody fortune.
May do a load more diving, as long as BMW don't start making regulators I should be OK.
Wish I had lifted one of them BSA's of the Thistlegorm last month, brand new and ready to roll.
Gizmo*
Registered user
Funny how if I mention 400 FPC failures I get shot down as everyone claims they "are rare occurences" yet talk of a Guzzi and they are shite cos one person on the planet had a top box issue
Not only has this forum put me of BMW's it has now convinced me the Guzzi is shite as well, now if you lot can talk me out of the Honda and Yamaha I can give up biking and save a bloody fortune.
May do a load more diving, as long as BMW don't start making regulators I should be OK.
Wish I had lifted one of them BSA's of the Thistlegorm last month, brand new and ready to roll.
Crap quality one can sort of live with provided stuff gets fixed, my norge ended up with me threatening them with VOSa to sort out an undersprung suspension that lifted the rear wheel off the ground when the centre stand dug in mid corner. I'm less than 70KG and bike solo, wtf it would be like with a pillion and super tourer weight luggage i was too scared to find out!. Eventually Guzzi accepted there was an issue as later bikes came with stiffer springs but TBH taking a breva and throwing a fairing on it isn't designing a grand tourer and thats about how it was done.
Take the yamaha out for a test, it'll be the most sensible alternative
Going to be doing one-up and two-up for all demo's, dealer is perfect distance for a decent run back home to pick up the Mrs and then ride it back.
Suspension don't bother me too much as if I don't like it I will just fit something better, in fact GS suspension was OK but I still fancied something better, plus re-working conventional front ends is much cheaper and Ohlins rear shocks always hold their value - I bet I could sort the suspension for not much more than I would get selling Wilburs kit that is currently on GS.
I think the BMW scores biggest in luggage, the Vario's are spot on for the two of us, even un-expanded there is space for a weekend away, I think the Yamaha has huge panniers, hoping Stelvio has enough room.
I also hope to find something with a bit more pillion space, the GS rear seat is quite small and the top box sits too far forward, I think without the box it would be OK but as it is we find it just a shade too cramped.
Suspension don't bother me too much as if I don't like it I will just fit something better, in fact GS suspension was OK but I still fancied something better, plus re-working conventional front ends is much cheaper and Ohlins rear shocks always hold their value - I bet I could sort the suspension for not much more than I would get selling Wilburs kit that is currently on GS.
I think the BMW scores biggest in luggage, the Vario's are spot on for the two of us, even un-expanded there is space for a weekend away, I think the Yamaha has huge panniers, hoping Stelvio has enough room.
I also hope to find something with a bit more pillion space, the GS rear seat is quite small and the top box sits too far forward, I think without the box it would be OK but as it is we find it just a shade too cramped.
Once again showing your ignorance in many areas. VFR's and Blackbirds are known for issues with the rectifiers. On my MCi tour last year the alternator failed on one of the Blackbrids on the trip. The ABS modulator also went tits up in a 1300 Pan and this caused the rear brake to lock on and the rider was unable to release it. Stopping the bike was very interesting.
As for FD's not lasting beyond 50k you really are talking out of your backside.
Rasher said:
One component means that BMW prices are not cheap? Have you actually done some comparisons with the other manufacturers? I doubt it.
Gizmo*
Registered user
I have no issue sorting suspension, quite used to doing that but there is a difference between improving performance and a bike that is out right dangerous. Thats down to a company who didnt get what a user might do with it, it was literally a breva city bike with a fairing added, more weight and expected to carry more load and the suspension had not been altered! A parts bin special .
Oh, the guzzi has less pillion space than a GS, me missus commented on that as soon as she hopped on back. Guzzi panniers will piss water, make sure you put everything in bags, I had 5 sets under warranty not one was dry enough for me to carry my laptop unless i sealed in in a poly bag first. I could go on but really dont want to bring up a short period of my biking life I'd rather get over, i really wanted an alternative to a BM as i couldn't accept I'd reached a point where it was the right bike for me, tried it and paid a price. Now a Pan or a Yamaha I might look at but I've been happy with my GS so just ordered a new GSA non esa, money saved will pay for Wilders set up for my use, probably travel dropped to GS travel but stiffer springs to keep ride height up loaded. I'm no fan of "stiffening" suspension with damping and thinking preload does anything other than alter geometry
You are however talking about a different bike from a few years ago and I do think Guzzi may have evolved a bit since then, especially with Piaggio now owning them (and hopefully investing in R&D and the dealer channel)
What I have read about the latest Stelvio has all been good, and also how much better it is than the last model. I think Guzzi are at a point where they know they need to improve and are tryng very hard to do so and to build a better reputation, which is a better scenario than BMW who are relying on a reputation built in the past and doing little or nothing to improve any issues - apart from throwing cash at famous actors to bolster sales.
Having said all that I would not be at all surprised to find the panniers leak, however that is a lot better than regular mechanical or electrical failures.
Anyone here got one of the latest Stelvio's???
What I have read about the latest Stelvio has all been good, and also how much better it is than the last model. I think Guzzi are at a point where they know they need to improve and are tryng very hard to do so and to build a better reputation, which is a better scenario than BMW who are relying on a reputation built in the past and doing little or nothing to improve any issues - apart from throwing cash at famous actors to bolster sales.
Having said all that I would not be at all surprised to find the panniers leak, however that is a lot better than regular mechanical or electrical failures.
Anyone here got one of the latest Stelvio's???
Again you are talking through your backside.
Current shocks on GS are Whitepower. Showa were the previous shocks.
Wilbers are aftermarket shocks available for the GS.
a wonderfully rose tinted view of guzzi.
speaking as a long time lover of the marque, owner of several, fixer of many. i reckon most of the above post is utter tosh.
guzzi have been in this position many times before, and always blown it. the dealers are rubbish, largely due to the apathy of whoever owns guzzi at the time.
piaggio don't have a great reputation. they also own aprillia, another make notorious for poor spares backup.
there is no question in my experience, that bmw dealers (the ones i deal with) are in a different league to any guzzi dealer i've ever seen. as long as you can pay, they seem to do everything very efficiently, and all parts are quickly available.
on the other hand, guzzi have just removed the franchise from my local guy, who probably knew more about the bikes than the factory, and given it to a fucking suzuki dealer. i'm sure that will work out well
Gizmo*
Registered user
PMSL The Norge was developed by Piaggio! Factory is in a mess, workers laid off as Piaggio dont know whether to close Mandello and move production elsewhere! No really new models just cosmetic changes using as many existign parts as possible and response to fashion trends Stelvio aimed at GS, V7 at Triumph I hardly call that investment
Oh and the "trying to provide a realistic option to BM" line is exactly what I bought into, I'm an italian bike fan, owned Ducati's, Laverdas and thought a Guzzi was an option to me finally going to a BM. Wrong.
Oh my list of mechanical faults stretched to a side of A4 paper, final straw was when servicing was more expensive than any of my Ducati's had been.
Good luck with it, you might have more tenacity than I did
Good luck with it, you might have more tenacity than I did
not seen much sign of any tenacity when it comes bmw.
he's not had a single problem, and still thinks they are crap
OK, Guzzi seem to be getting a right old bashing, maybe the Stelvio is a bigger gamble than I would have imagined.
But although some here find BMW perfect others have had issues. I think just the other day someone was told his bike would have a later FPC, and then refused a free replacement when his old type buggered up. Not much to ask for a part that is known to fail so often (and so cheap to replace) to be swapped as goodwill, and if BMW are so perfect why do they not have any policies on recall work and goodwill around the components they know are sub-standard, the whole BMW ownership thing thing seems to be a bit of a lottery - although maybe the odds are better stacked than the Guzzi ones.
Anyone got anything against Honda / Yamaha then ?
But although some here find BMW perfect others have had issues. I think just the other day someone was told his bike would have a later FPC, and then refused a free replacement when his old type buggered up. Not much to ask for a part that is known to fail so often (and so cheap to replace) to be swapped as goodwill, and if BMW are so perfect why do they not have any policies on recall work and goodwill around the components they know are sub-standard, the whole BMW ownership thing thing seems to be a bit of a lottery - although maybe the odds are better stacked than the Guzzi ones.
Anyone got anything against Honda / Yamaha then ?
Does I think mean it's a fact? This is one of the major issues here. Of all the people I know pretty well who ride GS's and I've ridden many thousands of miles with, I've never seen a showstopper. I worked out roughly that I've ridden 67k on mine and probably people I've ridden with have clocked 150,000 + miles whilst riding with me and never had an FD or FPC.
Everything has it's issues and I'm willing to bet that BuMW's are no more or less than anything else. It's a myth that anything is bullet proof as any right minded person must know.
The thing with the GS is has a huge following and a very active web forum where any issue is highlighted and probably blown out of all proportion.
In reality, the FPC problem has in the main been sorted by BuMW and there are probably only a few dodgy ones out there. It's a cheap fix in any case so no worries.
The FD problem is overblown in my opinion but there is an issue with some bikes and it's a right royal pain in the arse to those unlucky enough to have an issue. Whereas other makes warranty departments will tell you to Foxtrot Oscar, BuMW at least largely stand by their product and as I've mentioned in another thread, you can get a full FD rebuild for around £300. Even the mighty Yamaha would struggle with that I would guess and what makes anyone think they will last longer?
Service costs are the same as everyone else as well and if you are careful and sensible, a damned sight cheaper. What other bike can you do the valves, plugs, TPS etc without taking acres of plastic off first?
No-one thinks the bike or manufacturer are perfect but hey, it's the best all rounder out there and nothing else comes close.
For riding I totally agree (subject to trying some more of the competition) and I hope the reliability issue is skewed by the internet, and if I do have any issues that BMW do indeed stand by their product. To me the jury is still out and I am still gonna fit a new FPC before I head off to the Alps
Gizmo*
Registered user
Surely its about riding as well as other factors? Its why i bought another one, TBH my last multistrada DS had less issues than the BM but overall I prefer the ride balanced with the service i get on BM.
oh, don't fit a new FPC, do what i did, buy a spare one, it'll fit inside the black cover where FPC lives, leave it there until you need it, mine was still there when i p/ex'ed bike, took it out and will move to new GSA. I also made up a bypass lead just in case
Once again never used but it was there in case both FPC's died oh, don't fit a new FPC, do what i did, buy a spare one, it'll fit inside the black cover where FPC lives, leave it there until you need it, mine was still there when i p/ex'ed bike, took it out and will move to new GSA. I also made up a bypass lead just in case
Sounds like a neat trick, but still have the risk of complete power loss mid overtake, or the hassle of trying to fit the new one in the pissing rain / pitch black etc.
May take a hybrid approach and fit a new one and leave the old one where you suggest just in case.
What spares do I need to carry if I buy a Guzzi ?
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