Watercooled 1200 GS

mark2jag

mark2jag

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MCN have acquired some photos taken by a Spanish rider of an undisguised watercooled R1200GS???? Curious to know what the implications of watercooling would be on the GS!! I personally think that to make it watercooled would also mean making it heavier. I seem to remember someone saying they have to go down the watercooled route due to evertightening emissions regulations and legislations. what do you think?????
 
mark2jag said:
MCN have acquired some photos taken by a Spanish rider of an undisguised watercooled R1200GS???? Curious to know what the implications of watercooling would be on the GS!! I personally think that to make it watercooled would also mean making it heavier. I seem to remember someone saying they have to go down the watercooled route due to evertightening emissions regulations and legislations. what do you think?????
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Water cooling doesn't have to mean heavier cos there will be holes in the engine to let the water through :D - there will have to be a radiator and water pump, but moden sports bikes are very light and are almost all water cooled.
 
It wont necessarily make it heavier, look at all the metal in the massive cooling fins. It should make the engine a lot quieter, run cooler and also because the fueling can be controlled better it should run a lot nicer too. IMHO its a good move and long overdue. It also looks like they have relocated the ports to top and bottom meaning they can use proper valve adjustment bucket and shims instead of stupid rockers. The latest DOHC valve design is clever but its a bit of a bodge to change all the angles.
 
Talking to a friend of mine who works for BMW (car division) he asked someone he knows, they told him a water-cooled version won't be out for 2 more years...:blast
 
snerkler said:
It's ok, he must be another 1150 owner that secretly wants a 1200 but refuses to admit it and so has to slate the 1200 to make himself feel better ;) :augie
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Why would he want an 1150 (or come to that, a 1200)? He's already got the best GS (in fact, two of them) :nenau
 
Horse1200 said:
Talking to a friend of mine who works for BMW (car division) he asked someone he knows, they told him a water-cooled version won't be out for 2 more years...:blast
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Brill. That means that my current bike will be ready for changing then and I can have one the first ones. If I'm brave enough.... :beerjug:
 
MattW said:
Why would he want an 1150 (or come to that, a 1200)? He's already got the best GS (in fact, two of them) :nenau
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It was a joke due to the ongoing 1150 vs 1200 debate. I've no idea which model he has :blast BUt now guessing it's an 1100?
 
The latest DOHC valve design is clever but its a bit of a bodge to change all the angles
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Are you referring to the radial valve arrangement? I thought that was a technically superior route not often followed for reasons of cost....
 
ducatiparts.110mb said:
Are you referring to the radial valve arrangement? I thought that was a technically superior route not often followed for reasons of cost....
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Radial valves are nice when designed into a head from the start but in this case, I'm going with the 'bodge' hypothesis. They're barely radial enyway.

The twincam 1200 heads are a complex, manufacturing nightmare due to the very limited space available with the cam-in-head design (they couldn't make the heads / rocker boxes any bigger without compromising ground clearance) and the existing cam drive (from the front of the cylinders meaning that each cam has to drive one inlet and one exhaust valve). They had to use radial valves, skew ground cams and bucket / shim followers to avoid using supplementary rockers (no space). Look at the route the camchain has to take - I wonder if the upper 'half' chain guide is a service part? - It's got to wear pretty quickly...

They're some clever engineering in the heads (have you seen the little impeller on the lower cam sprocket to scavenge the rocker cover and squirt oil back down the camchain tunnel?) but I bet BMW don't like the manufacturing costs. I bet they'll take opportunity to simplify / refine the twincam arrangement during the redesign which the watercooled motor requires.
 

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Very nicely put Matt. Bodge is maybe a bit strong as yes there is some nice engineering in the heads but they simply aren't right and have too many compromises as Matt so nicely explained. If you turn the ports 90 deg clockwise you can keep the chain run and cams where they are but the ports are now at 90 deg to the cams which means a much more common and successful straight cam on bucket and shim followers. No rockers required which in turn could mean a reduction in size and weight of the heads not to mention a vastly increased valve clearance check period. They probably couldn't do it with this DOHC due to a major cooling surface would be at the back and with air cooling that simply wouldn't work. Its really only all speculation and BMW probably don't even know the final design yet, specially given that it would appear to be a couple of years away.
 
Kremmen said:
+1 ...especially when you consider that Honda used the Radial 4 valve head design back in the late 80's on the XBR500
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i think you'll find rudge used radial valves a little before then too ;)

...and they can not really be more than "barely radial" without using hemi heads, which only the yanks seem to use this century, and that's probably only for historic reasons.

bodge or not, they do seem to work quite well :)
 
Tim Cullis said:
Some spy shots of water-cooled 1200GS mules.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/73569/Motorcycle-Photo-Gallery-Photo/2012-BMW-Street-Bike-Models.aspx
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I think the look in the pics in Tim's link and in the MCN make the standard GS look a lot bulkier than the present model....so it'd be interesting to see how much bulk and weight the new GSA would carry?

To be honest I think the bulk of the 'new' Gs looks good, on the GSA you'd have to be careful not to make it too big and heavy as to spoil it's appeal, and prevent even more customers that the high seat height already does.

...I've also got no aversion to a change to a water cooled engine either. :augie

:thumb2
 
The rocker/cam covers are back to front, looks weird :confused:

The rest of it looks, I think, pretty cool. I'm liking the smaller pots :thumb2

Andres
 
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