Desert Biker
Guest
Awesome SQD8R....
Peter Harte
Guest
Paul Wakefield said:Ummm - I'm still stuck on this one. Can't recall having read many complaints and still doesn't explain why you think its not a GS.
Paul
OK Paul
1. Do You have a GS1200
2. If Not have you test ridden one ?
3. If you do have one - did you have a GS before ?
4. Have you driven a GS off road for more than a few minutes
5. Do you read the posts in this Forum - and if so do you remember all of the breakdowns and problems such as
a. Fuel Starvation
b. Electrical
c. Drive Shaft
d. General problems and concerns over build quality.
All of which have been brought to our attention by owners and riders - does that not beg the question.
Several people (want me to search thru and quote them ?)have refered to the above in many many posts here on this forum
I went to buy one , I drove it courtresy of The Dealer for 2 hours , and yes its fantastic , it lighter , its quicker , its dyanmic , it on the other hand IMO and a few others
1.Does not have the "Presence" or "look" of the GS 1100 onwards - when I first started to be interested in GS 's .
2. It does not have the build and materials feel and quality of the GS .
3. It did not inspire me , or excite me as a GS ( as a BMW motorcycle itys fine - until you start to look at the quality and breakdown problems ).
4. It does not inspire me to say/think I could drive this around the Globe , or over a mountain ( And I have undertaken long trips in all conditions and I have had it right up to the axles in Bog and Muck - so this opinion is based on some experience , unlike most GS drivers , who like the idea of Adventure and off roading but choose not to do so - these people will not care whether it goes Off Road or does nt.And thats fine too. But please take this into account when you make a point - or dont - just dont expect to be taken seriously - and be anything other than opinionated with nothing to back it up .
I did not get the chance to drive off road ( well it was a test drive !)and maybe I d be surprised , but IMO the bike is not as hard or well built as its predecessor - I wont be buying one , and this is important - to REPLACE my GS - its NOT (IMO ) a GS .
And I am saddened - becuase I wanted to want to buy one !
If it were nt for this Forum and its participants who refuse to be told that its not a problem , when it definitely IS . I made my mind up for now , after reading the reports ( You did know that there have been relaiblity problems !!) that I d pass for now .
Thank you to all of you who did report , when literaly the wheel fell off and the fuel stoipped flowing when it rianed too much !
Cheers Boys - and to all of you who have 1200 Gs , and love em , thats good for you , and I am happy for you , but dont tell me that its a smooth and a natural sucessor to the GS - IMO its NOT ! and there are a few others as well .
Geordietraveller
Registered user
Well that convinced me!!
Actually, is it even a BMW?
or a motorbike?
Perhaps I haven't got an R1200GS in the shed at all!!
Hope it's really a Ferrari
Actually, is it even a BMW?
or a motorbike?
Perhaps I haven't got an R1200GS in the shed at all!!
Hope it's really a Ferrari
SQD8R
Registered user
OK Peter I'd say you are pretty set in your opinion and you're right in regards to some issues but it is the internet and you are more likely to find people reporting on the bad than the good. Especially considering it has its own forum. But I see your point. Again I'm @ 23K and no issues. that's why you won't see too many posts regarding issues from me. I've never experienced them and therefore can't even offer a viable solution for most. Then you have to consider exactly how many people have complained. I mean how many percentage-wise do you think the complainants make up of new 12Gs owners? I know you feel this negates it as a GS but I can't see it.
Well I can't argue with how you feel so 1, 3, and 4 are out. I'd think the march in technology and materials would have improved since the 1100Gs though.
As far as 4 is concerned I can attest to the fact that I do take it regularly off-road, every Sunday, and other than needing a snorkle kit I've had no issues with it off-road. Lighter is better and I can't imagine a heavier GS being better off-road than a lighter GS. I regularly run in ATV and Jeep trails so I'm not talking about a nice hikers path with a bit of stone. But again this is your opinion and I'm not challenging it but just letting you in on a informed and off-roading 12GS owners opinion since you haven't had the opportunity to try it off-road. The 1100GS is a great bike and I can see the attraction.
As I've said before I think the reason alot of old model GS owners are so quick to judge or dismiss the new GS is for two reasons.
1. BMW model changes are always incremental and never leaps and bounds. Therefore the expense of upgrading isn't justified to most. I agree with this. If I had an older GS I wouldn't upgrade. Not because I didn't feel the new one was an advancement but because I wouldn't feel the expense was justified especially coming from a 1100 or 1150.
2. BMW model changes are not every 2 years. This causes people to become intensely and sometimes blindingly loyal to their particular model because they forget the teething issues they went through and they forget the attitude of previous owners when the new gen comes out.
Well I can't argue with how you feel so 1, 3, and 4 are out. I'd think the march in technology and materials would have improved since the 1100Gs though.
As far as 4 is concerned I can attest to the fact that I do take it regularly off-road, every Sunday, and other than needing a snorkle kit I've had no issues with it off-road. Lighter is better and I can't imagine a heavier GS being better off-road than a lighter GS. I regularly run in ATV and Jeep trails so I'm not talking about a nice hikers path with a bit of stone. But again this is your opinion and I'm not challenging it but just letting you in on a informed and off-roading 12GS owners opinion since you haven't had the opportunity to try it off-road. The 1100GS is a great bike and I can see the attraction.
As I've said before I think the reason alot of old model GS owners are so quick to judge or dismiss the new GS is for two reasons.
1. BMW model changes are always incremental and never leaps and bounds. Therefore the expense of upgrading isn't justified to most. I agree with this. If I had an older GS I wouldn't upgrade. Not because I didn't feel the new one was an advancement but because I wouldn't feel the expense was justified especially coming from a 1100 or 1150.
2. BMW model changes are not every 2 years. This causes people to become intensely and sometimes blindingly loyal to their particular model because they forget the teething issues they went through and they forget the attitude of previous owners when the new gen comes out.
The map is not the territory. The name is not the thing named. The description is not the thing described.
Peter,
It is a smooth and a natural successor to the GS1150.
It is a smooth and a natural successor to the GS1150.
Alphason
Guest
Mmmmmmm.......A mark 4 Cortina was not a Cortina, a mark 5 Golf is not a Golf. What were they thinking of when they called the latest Beetle a Beetle?
I don't have strong feelings about other GS models, I just prefer the 1200 so thats the one I bought.
Just try to be happy with what you've got. If you don't like the latest model don't buy it, but don't deny it's existence, people might think you really want one!
I don't have strong feelings about other GS models, I just prefer the 1200 so thats the one I bought.
Just try to be happy with what you've got. If you don't like the latest model don't buy it, but don't deny it's existence, people might think you really want one!
Peter,
In answer to your questions:
Yes - 6k+ miles
N/A - but have ridden about 4 in total
Yes - 30k+ miles
Yes (though not the 1200)
Yes - I am aware of the breakdowns. If you read the posts, you will see that I have experienced them. But that seems to me to be a complete irrelevance as to whether it is a GS or not. The earlier models have hardly been immune.
As you say don't be taken seriously if you comment on something you haven't done* - and you say you haven't taken the 1200 off road but are quite happy to comment on its abilities! * Not a sentiment I necessarily agree with.
If it doesn't inspire you, thats fine. Thats a jolly good reason for not buying it.
We will have to agree to differ. I think (as I have said frequently before) that all of the GSs inc airheads are great bikes and that the 1200 is part of the tradition.
Paul
In answer to your questions:
Yes - 6k+ miles
N/A - but have ridden about 4 in total
Yes - 30k+ miles
Yes (though not the 1200)
Yes - I am aware of the breakdowns. If you read the posts, you will see that I have experienced them. But that seems to me to be a complete irrelevance as to whether it is a GS or not. The earlier models have hardly been immune.
As you say don't be taken seriously if you comment on something you haven't done* - and you say you haven't taken the 1200 off road but are quite happy to comment on its abilities! * Not a sentiment I necessarily agree with.
If it doesn't inspire you, thats fine. Thats a jolly good reason for not buying it.
We will have to agree to differ. I think (as I have said frequently before) that all of the GSs inc airheads are great bikes and that the 1200 is part of the tradition.
Paul
Geordietraveller
Registered user
Peter Harte
Guest
And Finally
Being a bit of a car fan as well - the Golf GTI is a case in point - everyone of which I ve owned and one which I would not.
Mark 1 - the original and the ground breaker ( The Coffin Car as it became known as Sales Reps went for them as they were similairly priced to the average Rep mobiles - not knowing that these were not Cortinas / Sierras or Vauxhalls- and accordingly found themselves in trouble having entered corners 20 -30 mph faster than they though possible , with in some cases disasterous results).As GS there were two various changes , and progressive evolutions Mk 1 1600 and 1800 to name the most important - think of GS1150 and GS Adventure
Mark II - Diff style More weight , better quality parts but still a Golf
Mark III - the Plot is well and truly lost , more weight less performance , ordinary styling , no longer recognisable as a Golf - and this is reflected in the sales
Mark IV - back , sharp , qualty feel, new technology , still a bit stodgy , but great car, back to the Old Golf quality and expectation.
Mark V . New and better that the I , II , !V - ( we d all like to forget about the mark III. As in all of us who had Golfs and like them. Many drove the III s, but not necessarily those who were early adaptors of the I, II s - and who went back when the IV arrived ( Me ) and now look at the Vs - that new GTI is impressive.
As for the Beetle - well it isn t a Beetle - its better actually , but its the worst performing of the VW range at that level ( not the Phaeton !!) As people wanted a real Beetle and had a experience of them , which the new one faled to deliver and is /was way overpriced anyway.
And finally to all of you blokes with GS1200 s - despite me being wrongly accused of being offensive to the owner of raffled GS - and not being big enough to congratulate him - CONGRATULATIONS again - and as for the point that , what was I doing on this forum bringing the 1200 in to dis repute - has any one notised the tread at the start "What a load of Tosh " that these 1100 and 1150 owners are going on with - the mere opening line made it quite acceptable to make my point. But again good luck to you all and maybe one of you should put up a Poll to see which of you owned a earlier GS or how many of you are new to GS ownership and a list of problems if any.
With the listed problems , I wont be bying a GS 1200. I am after all only interested in the problems and the failures , not all the good things - funny I was kind of expecting that if I bought one I was nt going to have any problems with a new Bike. MY GS1150 - has not given me ONE problem , not ONE , rain , shine , bogs , as its getting on a bit I d like to see a little less weathering appearing granted . But I d be rightly pissed off if a new GS , stopped in the rain , dropped its final drive , or its brakes just decided to stop ( have nt you guys read these posts - or did I make them up - and arent the guys who made them to be commended rather than admonished as "Whingers" - which a few of you have said they were " this is the Internet and etc etc etc " If I may use a phrase that the starter of this tread used , now that is a "Load of Tosh ...."Having the balls to say I ve got somthing on my hands which I am decididly unhappy about and this or that has happened - is far more usefull to the participants of this site than discounting alegeded "Whingers" who must be making it up. I dont care how many people have NO Problems - I care about the ones that do and IMHO , its too many for a forum with a couple of thousand users , and a number of 1200s , which wont be anything like 2000 - how may 1200s are out there being driven by members of this forum ? 100 - 200 - 500 -
How many problems ? On this board thread there appears to be a number of either , "I m getting on fine - so dont tell me about problems " or "If I keep my head in the sand , I ll be fine ".Or Ive got the newest GS , and there cant be anythng wrong with it , because BMW says its the latest model and therefore its the best !- and have nt you seen the pictures - Wow!
Is the GS the Golf Mark III - the anorexic version , only time will tell , I wont anyway , a deck chair tubberware as the 78 MGB was called - To all of you who have them - I really wish you the best and good luck on what is a very fine machine - really - to thise of you who put me off buying one , Thanks even more. you simply crysalised what I had previously had thought.
Cheers all you New GSers
Alphason said:
Being a bit of a car fan as well - the Golf GTI is a case in point - everyone of which I ve owned and one which I would not.
Mark 1 - the original and the ground breaker ( The Coffin Car as it became known as Sales Reps went for them as they were similairly priced to the average Rep mobiles - not knowing that these were not Cortinas / Sierras or Vauxhalls- and accordingly found themselves in trouble having entered corners 20 -30 mph faster than they though possible , with in some cases disasterous results).As GS there were two various changes , and progressive evolutions Mk 1 1600 and 1800 to name the most important - think of GS1150 and GS Adventure
Mark II - Diff style More weight , better quality parts but still a Golf
Mark III - the Plot is well and truly lost , more weight less performance , ordinary styling , no longer recognisable as a Golf - and this is reflected in the sales
Mark IV - back , sharp , qualty feel, new technology , still a bit stodgy , but great car, back to the Old Golf quality and expectation.
Mark V . New and better that the I , II , !V - ( we d all like to forget about the mark III. As in all of us who had Golfs and like them. Many drove the III s, but not necessarily those who were early adaptors of the I, II s - and who went back when the IV arrived ( Me ) and now look at the Vs - that new GTI is impressive.
As for the Beetle - well it isn t a Beetle - its better actually , but its the worst performing of the VW range at that level ( not the Phaeton !!) As people wanted a real Beetle and had a experience of them , which the new one faled to deliver and is /was way overpriced anyway.
And finally to all of you blokes with GS1200 s - despite me being wrongly accused of being offensive to the owner of raffled GS - and not being big enough to congratulate him - CONGRATULATIONS again - and as for the point that , what was I doing on this forum bringing the 1200 in to dis repute - has any one notised the tread at the start "What a load of Tosh " that these 1100 and 1150 owners are going on with - the mere opening line made it quite acceptable to make my point. But again good luck to you all and maybe one of you should put up a Poll to see which of you owned a earlier GS or how many of you are new to GS ownership and a list of problems if any.
With the listed problems , I wont be bying a GS 1200. I am after all only interested in the problems and the failures , not all the good things - funny I was kind of expecting that if I bought one I was nt going to have any problems with a new Bike. MY GS1150 - has not given me ONE problem , not ONE , rain , shine , bogs , as its getting on a bit I d like to see a little less weathering appearing granted . But I d be rightly pissed off if a new GS , stopped in the rain , dropped its final drive , or its brakes just decided to stop ( have nt you guys read these posts - or did I make them up - and arent the guys who made them to be commended rather than admonished as "Whingers" - which a few of you have said they were " this is the Internet and etc etc etc " If I may use a phrase that the starter of this tread used , now that is a "Load of Tosh ...."Having the balls to say I ve got somthing on my hands which I am decididly unhappy about and this or that has happened - is far more usefull to the participants of this site than discounting alegeded "Whingers" who must be making it up. I dont care how many people have NO Problems - I care about the ones that do and IMHO , its too many for a forum with a couple of thousand users , and a number of 1200s , which wont be anything like 2000 - how may 1200s are out there being driven by members of this forum ? 100 - 200 - 500 -
How many problems ? On this board thread there appears to be a number of either , "I m getting on fine - so dont tell me about problems " or "If I keep my head in the sand , I ll be fine ".Or Ive got the newest GS , and there cant be anythng wrong with it , because BMW says its the latest model and therefore its the best !- and have nt you seen the pictures - Wow!
Is the GS the Golf Mark III - the anorexic version , only time will tell , I wont anyway , a deck chair tubberware as the 78 MGB was called - To all of you who have them - I really wish you the best and good luck on what is a very fine machine - really - to thise of you who put me off buying one , Thanks even more. you simply crysalised what I had previously had thought.
Cheers all you New GSers
Wraithwrider
Guest
Hmmmm, don't like the 'and finally'. It invites comment!
SQD8R 1
Peter 0
SQD8R 1
Peter 0
Alphason
Guest
I can almost hear the stress!
Maybe more time on the bike and less time worrying about other peoples bikes would help.
Can't wait 'till the Mk5 GS arrives, it should be great if the Mk4 1200 is anyting to go by!
CALM DOWN.
Maybe more time on the bike and less time worrying about other peoples bikes would help.
Can't wait 'till the Mk5 GS arrives, it should be great if the Mk4 1200 is anyting to go by!
CALM DOWN.
a Poll to see which of you owned a earlier GS or how many of you are new to GS owners
Already been done - suggest you do a search. IIRC the last time I looked it was about 50:50.
.
A bit inconsistent to look at all 1200s and compare it to your one example. My 1150 was not perfect and I seem to have seen a lot about rear bearings or bevels or something going on 1150s at about 11000 miles.
Well that reads to me as if you have been looking for reasons to reinforce the decision you had already made. Nothing wrong with your decision but it does rather weaken your arguments.
Paul
Already been done - suggest you do a search. IIRC the last time I looked it was about 50:50.
.
The glass is half empty approach. Taken to a logical conclusion , you presumably wouldn't buy anything. There will be flaws in anything especially if mass prdouced.
A bit inconsistent to look at all 1200s and compare it to your one example. My 1150 was not perfect and I seem to have seen a lot about rear bearings or bevels or something going on 1150s at about 11000 miles.
Well that reads to me as if you have been looking for reasons to reinforce the decision you had already made. Nothing wrong with your decision but it does rather weaken your arguments.
Paul
Alphason
Guest
Re: And Finally
Insecure? Who knows? But the powers of positive thinking are amazing.
Still, I'd be a bit annoyed if a great new GS1300 was announced tomorrow. I might even resort to putting it and it's owners down in order to convince myself that I'd got the 'best' bike.
On the other hand, I'm sure no one but me would care!
Peter Harte said:
Insecure? Who knows? But the powers of positive thinking are amazing.
Still, I'd be a bit annoyed if a great new GS1300 was announced tomorrow. I might even resort to putting it and it's owners down in order to convince myself that I'd got the 'best' bike.
On the other hand, I'm sure no one but me would care!
Peter Harte
Guest
Re: Re: And Finally
Where are you coming from - Insecure - because I am voicing an opinion - is it not right to question manufacturers rather than take on the marketing propganda thats given to us from the spinning propellor people. And whose putting the owners down - not me !
I have said many times congrats - well done etc - ALL I have questioned is the Bike , as is my right and I was invited to comment by the first thread on this post which said "all that tosh fronm 1100 - 1150 owners "- so with all the reaction from 1200 owners perhaps the term "Insecure" might be more appropriate description for those defending their decisions and saying there bikes are amazing , brilliant- great , all the guys who complained are "whingers" and that we should accept that there will be problems with mass produced machines and that we should take it on the chin .Did nt anyone hear me say or are you too selective in what you want to hear - that I REALLY WANTED TO BUY A 1200 GS, BUT CANNOT NOW as I ve read everything , tried the bike and I just dont like it . I have not ever said that the GS1150 is a better bike ( I do have serious issues with the problems on the 1200 , that aside) than the 1200 - what I have said and am continuing to make the pont is that - its is not IMHO a GS per se as I know it and does not follow from the 1100 and the 1150s ( I dont know enough about the earlier GS , nor was I interested in them at the time - although now I would be having been around them and seen them working ) . So in summary , if you ve been put down by me - show me where ? - if I caused offence , I appologise , life is too short , if I ve voiced an opinion different to yours and therefore insulted your new bike , thats unfortunate , but thats what forums are for , and you have the problem not me. If you want to read into this somthing I ve not said , well thats your problem as well , I will and have the right to go back at you and disagree , particularly if I am being accused of , or being credited with saying somthing I did NOT . As for being excited and needing to calm down - well actually this is me , all the time , just the same - Cheers boys- just go ride the thing ....
Alphason said:
Where are you coming from - Insecure - because I am voicing an opinion - is it not right to question manufacturers rather than take on the marketing propganda thats given to us from the spinning propellor people. And whose putting the owners down - not me !
I have said many times congrats - well done etc - ALL I have questioned is the Bike , as is my right and I was invited to comment by the first thread on this post which said "all that tosh fronm 1100 - 1150 owners "- so with all the reaction from 1200 owners perhaps the term "Insecure" might be more appropriate description for those defending their decisions and saying there bikes are amazing , brilliant- great , all the guys who complained are "whingers" and that we should accept that there will be problems with mass produced machines and that we should take it on the chin .Did nt anyone hear me say or are you too selective in what you want to hear - that I REALLY WANTED TO BUY A 1200 GS, BUT CANNOT NOW as I ve read everything , tried the bike and I just dont like it . I have not ever said that the GS1150 is a better bike ( I do have serious issues with the problems on the 1200 , that aside) than the 1200 - what I have said and am continuing to make the pont is that - its is not IMHO a GS per se as I know it and does not follow from the 1100 and the 1150s ( I dont know enough about the earlier GS , nor was I interested in them at the time - although now I would be having been around them and seen them working ) . So in summary , if you ve been put down by me - show me where ? - if I caused offence , I appologise , life is too short , if I ve voiced an opinion different to yours and therefore insulted your new bike , thats unfortunate , but thats what forums are for , and you have the problem not me. If you want to read into this somthing I ve not said , well thats your problem as well , I will and have the right to go back at you and disagree , particularly if I am being accused of , or being credited with saying somthing I did NOT . As for being excited and needing to calm down - well actually this is me , all the time , just the same - Cheers boys- just go ride the thing ....
Peter Harte
Guest
Re: a Poll to see which of you owned a earlier GS or how many of you are new to GS owners
Point One - I have and do but items with flaws - but we draw the line at what we consider too much - the current 1200GS is too much in terms of problems- how many here have problems ?
Point 2.
I have only compared the 1200 with the 1100 and 1150 , and my personal experience - how is that inconsistant. 20 K on my GS - and no problems with bevels etc - BUT now that you have said it I ll be the wiser when and if it appears
Point 3
Cant see how it weaken s this argument - I find it usefull to hearing opposing views to ones own - but there is always something in when yoiu hear a view that relates directly to what you had already formed an opinion on and which concurs . It further re inforces ones own reasoning- and I can assure you that I had come to this site to see if I was alone in my opinions and perhaps I had missed the point , to then read about all the problems further re inforced my view - how does it weaken my argument in any way ?????
Paul Wakefield said:
Point One - I have and do but items with flaws - but we draw the line at what we consider too much - the current 1200GS is too much in terms of problems- how many here have problems ?
Point 2.
I have only compared the 1200 with the 1100 and 1150 , and my personal experience - how is that inconsistant. 20 K on my GS - and no problems with bevels etc - BUT now that you have said it I ll be the wiser when and if it appears
Point 3
Cant see how it weaken s this argument - I find it usefull to hearing opposing views to ones own - but there is always something in when yoiu hear a view that relates directly to what you had already formed an opinion on and which concurs . It further re inforces ones own reasoning- and I can assure you that I had come to this site to see if I was alone in my opinions and perhaps I had missed the point , to then read about all the problems further re inforced my view - how does it weaken my argument in any way ?????
SQD8R
Registered user
Does anyone, else, hear the gentle cracking of Peter's arguement?
Who is we? You've drawn your line but obviously most haven't. I suspect that you were, and are, justifying the continued ownership of your current excellent mount by denigrating others mounts as a non-GS, which by the reaction you've recieved, you still haven't proven.
It's a type of transference. Slam the 12GS in order to make yourself feel better about your mount. Usually it comes from some kind of an inferiority complex, paranoia or need to justify ones own purchases.I'm thinking the last one applies here. Here's a helpful link for you. It's known as splitting / projective identification.
http://www.theol.rug.nl/~vanderme/e...ts/split_uk.htm
There aren't any bad motorcycles out there and it's ridiculous to argue these mundane points since it is a small percentage of the new 12GS owners that have had issues and like I said before they are more likely to post here than those without issues. Also you must be assuming that a fair majority of 12GS owners are on this site, in order to reach these conclusions. I certainly doubt that is true.
I understand your theory to a point. When I was assessing the merits of the 12GS v. the 950 Adv. I did the same type of search over @ Advrider.com. Surfing the 950 site revealed alot of negatives regarding ownership of the bike as well as alot of owners with minimal or no issues and positive reports. Had I taken the negative views only into the equation I would have done the same thing you are doing now and written the 950 off. But instead I took the viewpoints of the positive experieces into the equation and while I didn't buy the 950 it wasn't ruled out based only on the experiences of people with negative viewpoints.
Well I can't argue with that method. I find it funny that you imply that 12GS owners heads are in the sand because their bike works for them and that they are apparently ignoring the other 12GS owners with issues around them. Then you go and do the same thing in your "research" of your own model. There were final drive and similar issues well before the 1200 came out. Do a search buddy.
It makes no sense that 12GS owners who have just shelled out some serious, or in some case not so serious, bucks, who are on this site and are obviously interested in all posts regarding the 12GS, good and bad, would ignore issues. Why would a new owner just ignore bad reports? If anything I would think they watch the reports coming in and keep an eye on new issues that may be relevant to them at some point.
Hearing and accepting are two different things I guess.
24,000 kms to date and no issues. I suggest you do the same. Go for a ride and de-stress.
Here's my final question. If it isn't a GS what is it then Peter?
Who is we? You've drawn your line but obviously most haven't. I suspect that you were, and are, justifying the continued ownership of your current excellent mount by denigrating others mounts as a non-GS, which by the reaction you've recieved, you still haven't proven.
It's a type of transference. Slam the 12GS in order to make yourself feel better about your mount. Usually it comes from some kind of an inferiority complex, paranoia or need to justify ones own purchases.I'm thinking the last one applies here. Here's a helpful link for you. It's known as splitting / projective identification.
http://www.theol.rug.nl/~vanderme/e...ts/split_uk.htm
There aren't any bad motorcycles out there and it's ridiculous to argue these mundane points since it is a small percentage of the new 12GS owners that have had issues and like I said before they are more likely to post here than those without issues. Also you must be assuming that a fair majority of 12GS owners are on this site, in order to reach these conclusions. I certainly doubt that is true.
I understand your theory to a point. When I was assessing the merits of the 12GS v. the 950 Adv. I did the same type of search over @ Advrider.com. Surfing the 950 site revealed alot of negatives regarding ownership of the bike as well as alot of owners with minimal or no issues and positive reports. Had I taken the negative views only into the equation I would have done the same thing you are doing now and written the 950 off. But instead I took the viewpoints of the positive experieces into the equation and while I didn't buy the 950 it wasn't ruled out based only on the experiences of people with negative viewpoints.
Well I can't argue with that method.
I find it funny that you imply that 12GS owners heads are in the sand because their bike works for them and that they are apparently ignoring the other 12GS owners with issues around them. Then you go and do the same thing in your "research" of your own model. There were final drive and similar issues well before the 1200 came out. Do a search buddy. It makes no sense that 12GS owners who have just shelled out some serious, or in some case not so serious, bucks, who are on this site and are obviously interested in all posts regarding the 12GS, good and bad, would ignore issues. Why would a new owner just ignore bad reports? If anything I would think they watch the reports coming in and keep an eye on new issues that may be relevant to them at some point.
Hearing and accepting are two different things I guess.
24,000 kms to date and no issues. I suggest you do the same. Go for a ride and de-stress.
Here's my final question. If it isn't a GS what is it then Peter?
TheJoker
Registered user
Peter Harte
Guest
SQD8R said:Does anyone, else, hear the gentle cracking of Peter's arguement?
Who is we? You've drawn your line but obviously most haven't. I suspect that you were, and are, justifying the continued ownership of your current excellent mount by denigrating others mounts as a non-GS, which by the reaction you've recieved, you still haven't proven.
It's a type of transference. Slam the 12GS in order to make yourself feel better about your mount. Usually it comes from some kind of an inferiority complex, paranoia or need to justify ones own purchases.I'm thinking the last one applies here. Here's a helpful link for you. It's known as splitting / projective identification.
http://www.theol.rug.nl/~vanderme/e...ts/split_uk.htm
There aren't any bad motorcycles out there and it's ridiculous to argue these mundane points since it is a small percentage of the new 12GS owners that have had issues and like I said before they are more likely to post here than those without issues. Also you must be assuming that a fair majority of 12GS owners are on this site, in order to reach these conclusions. I certainly doubt that is true.
I understand your theory to a point. When I was assessing the merits of the 12GS v. the 950 Adv. I did the same type of search over @ Advrider.com. Surfing the 950 site revealed alot of negatives regarding ownership of the bike as well as alot of owners with minimal or no issues and positive reports. Had I taken the negative views only into the equation I would have done the same thing you are doing now and written the 950 off. But instead I took the viewpoints of the positive experieces into the equation and while I didn't buy the 950 it wasn't ruled out based only on the experiences of people with negative viewpoints.
Well I can't argue with that method.
It makes no sense that 12GS owners who have just shelled out some serious, or in some case not so serious, bucks, who are on this site and are obviously interested in all posts regarding the 12GS, good and bad, would ignore issues. Why would a new owner just ignore bad reports? If anything I would think they watch the reports coming in and keep an eye on new issues that may be relevant to them at some point.
Hearing and accepting are two different things I guess.
24,000 kms to date and no issues. I suggest you do the same. Go for a ride and de-stress.
Here's my final question. If it isn't a GS what is it then Peter?
Firstly the Link is busted , I lll live with it -
2nd - we sometimes use we instead of I( Gawd ! - did it again) - a mistake - read whatever phsco babble you want into it
3rd , Its a opinion , thats all, like leave it , and dont read anything else into it . My experience , I ve given my reasons and you are telling me its deeply physological - FFS , we re talking about a Bike and an opinion. Why be personal - so if you think I have deep seated problem , thats fine maybe I have.
4th I m simply having some banter with you and some blokes who are taking all this personally - I think your bikes are not GS s - so what - you think they are - and your point is ?
I m glad you are now admmiting there are problems , because it sure seemed to me that you were calling it rubbish a few posts ago and the people that posted a bunch of cranks.
The problems , I read -after the test drive - as in I looked at all of the Pros and Cons and the cons hit the parts that rang true for me QED - so I m not buying a 1200 to replace my GS 1150 - which I d normally do at this time in its life - ( schuck s may be I really want one , but the wife wont let me - so then I m frantically trying to make excuses - oh my Gawd !- maybe I m mad , insecure , manic - yeah that about covers all the things you suggest I am I guess )
I note that you have not owed a GS before - so therefore what are you comparing the current one to ?
what would I call the new GS - if there were no problems - a fine motorcycle - aint a GS though IMHO - and in the opinon s of many others here - OK so call us cranks eh !
As for relax - I am - I continue to be - and its you whose writing the long replies and looking for the "Cracks " in my argument - No argument here my man - its just an opinion , like it or put it where the sun dont shine -
Bye - I m off to the Pub, to drown my sad ass ! Because I really want one of those GS 1200 s , which are amazing and brilliant , because you say so.
Peter Harte
Guest
SQD8R
Psst - seeing as you ve gotten such milage ( and without any problems ) out of our banter - how about you send Paul a few $$ , to keep the wife and Kid s warm for the winter and become a sponsor of the site ......its well worth it , yoiu meet interesting people , read reviews , look at all the good news as regards the bikes ,etc etc - worth every penny ( oops Cent )
Psst - seeing as you ve gotten such milage ( and without any problems ) out of our banter - how about you send Paul a few $$ , to keep the wife and Kid s warm for the winter and become a sponsor of the site ......its well worth it , yoiu meet interesting people , read reviews , look at all the good news as regards the bikes ,etc etc - worth every penny ( oops Cent )
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