What's Inside Your Headlight?

[Magwych]

Weather is crap, all the little post-Christmas household jobs that need doig need some little (or big) part or other, which have all been ordered. So I started on something I have been meaning to do for a long...

I have had an old headlight unit with a chipped lens kicking round in the shed for a while. The dipped beam reflector has "burnt away" or whatever, basically it has no reflective material left above the dipped beam bulb. I came across a cheap replacement for it on EBay so slung this into one corner of the shed for one such rainy day.

There are a few pages on eBay on heating up headlights to soften the adhesive holding the glass on. So, I preheated the oven to 120degC whilst I stripped off all the rubber vents, clips, screws, blind nuts, the base grommet and the label. Then in it goes for 12 -15 minutes. No basting, fat, vegetables or foil.

Out it came, smelling a bit, but not so much as to drop me right in it. Then I had a good go at it with a small flat blade, trying to loosen the glass. First thing I noticed was that there was not a lot of the adhesive at the bottom, probably explains why it used to suffer from condensation more than one might expect.

Working around the edge I managed to get the glass moving away from the shell. I kept working away at it around the edges, holding a good pull for a longer time proved more useful that pulling really hard. Once it looked like this might work I really did not want to break the glass, a plan was forming...

I could have, and in hindsight, really should have, taken some photos, but I was getting into the task of separating glass from the shell. At the start of all this I thought I was probably going to end up with a shell with most of the glass still attached, a few pieces of broken glass spread around the room and a pool of my own blood; with such good progress and no injuries I did not want to stop for some snaps.

Now for those of us that have suffered from the reflector popping off its mounts, these bady taken photos may show what those mounts actually look like. It helps to know what they are and where to push or pull to get it back together again.

This is the reflector surface, the reason it was removed in the first place:

 

[Magwych]

The shell, the glass, some tools and a table covered in bits of the adhesive used to stick the first two items together:

The crap reflector and more of the same bits seen above:

 

[Magwych]

The plan that started forming in my head is to install a HID projector in the dipped beam, something like this http://www.skeenway.com/hid-xenon-bulbs/2-8-motorcycle-hid-projector-headlights-with-angel-eye-demon-eye.html.

I am hoping that Les Wassall may be able to help out with this rather than trying some Mickey Mouse product randomly found on the interweb...I may even go for a projector on main too.

Once I get it all cleaned up, annd source a good projector for at least the dipped beam, it should all go back together again with a thick bead of black Sikaflex in the joint to hold it together.

If there is anything you want to see of the headlights innards, now would be a good time to ask for a photo.

 

[Magwych]

Disclaimers and warnings:
Always ask for the help of an adult when dealing with a hot oven.
Once the headlight has been in the oven it wil be hot, about 120degC to be precise. The glass retains the heat more than the shell.
Unless you are prepared to gable your headlight, or feel confident about it, do not do this.
If you do go ahead, be very careful and do not blame me if you break the glass. It is quite strong, mine has a chip in it from an airborne stone and survived the heating process.

 

[Greenman14]

Good luck with this, it will be interesting to see how a new projector style light compares with a normal HID conversion. I've done a dip and main beam HID from Les and although it's a lot better than the standard light the dip beam still not as good as I remember the standard lights on my VFR Vtec being.

 

[sagalout]

Interesting - when looking into the HiD conversion (I've just done mine) I found a site selling projectors with a table of bikes stating which ones can be split and it advised against the GS one. Looks like it worked fine for you though Not sure I'd risk it with my only headlines get though!

 

[Magwych]

Hi Sagalout,
Any idea which site that was?

 

[autogs]

Hi Sagalout,
Any idea which site that was?

www.trynottofuckyourheadlampup.com

 

[Bendy toy]

Looks like that reflector has suffered from badlyfittedbulbitis.

My Les Wassal HID pair is great on dip beam but main beam still gives not enough extra range. The issue is poor angular separation between dip and main beams. To get a good main beam alignment I'm dazzling everyone even with the old bulbs. Until I get some narrow angle LED spots to pick out the long range, I'm accepting main beam is now just average though much better than it was with normal bulbs.

 

[MWH]

Have you sourced a projector beam yet? I wonder if one could be cannabalised from a secondhand car unit. Passats etc run projector lights, just not sure if its "built" in to its surrounding or just screws to it.

 

[Delboy777]

Looks like that reflector has suffered from badlyfittedbulbitis.

My Les Wassal HID pair is great on dip beam but main beam still gives not enough extra range. The issue is poor angular separation between dip and main beams. To get a good main beam alignment I'm dazzling everyone even with the old bulbs. Until I get some narrow angle LED spots to pick out the long range, I'm accepting main beam is now just average though much better than it was with normal bulbs.

I fitted a pair of FF 50s from Les and that sorted out the long range problem. Its like riding in bright sunlight when they are on. I wired them to trigger from the headlight main beam via a relay. They are wired directly to the battery and have a switch on the bars so the can be turned off when required.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I fitted a pair of FF 50s from Les and that sorted out the long range problem. Its like riding in bright sunlight when they are on. I wired them to trigger from the headlight main beam via a relay. They are wired directly to the battery and have a switch on the bars so the can be turned off when required.

Yeah, the reflector on main is crap so making the bulb brighter does very little - I HID'd my low beam but never bothered with main as there seemed little point. Like you, a set of FF50s (with PIAAs) and it was like riding in daylight with main beam on.

Magwych - were you running a HID in the 'burnt' reflector - mine had started going that way but I always put it down to extra heat from the HID?

Andres

 

[Delboy777]

I thought HIDs run a lot cooler than standard bulbs ?

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I thought HIDs run a lot cooler than standard bulbs ?

You could well be right, I honestly don't know?
However, whatever temp they do run at was enough to start burning off the mirror finish on the reflector.

Andres

 

[Flipfly]

Looks like that reflector has suffered from badlyfittedbulbitis.

My Les Wassal HID pair is great on dip beam but main beam still gives not enough extra range. The issue is poor angular separation between dip and main beams. To get a good main beam alignment I'm dazzling everyone even with the old bulbs. Until I get some narrow angle LED spots to pick out the long range, I'm accepting main beam is now just average though much better than it was with normal bulbs.

You may be better with HID spots for distance.

I have LED spots which I find fantastic, but I still have to use my 1150s HID main beam for the centre distance. LEDs don't really do well over long distance when compared to HID. The main reason appears to be the poor choice of reflectors that work with LED. Obviously cars with LED lights work because they have had multiple millions spent on them, but at the moment, aftermarket LED light manufacturers are using fairly basic off the shelf reflectors.

 

[Bendy toy]

Thanks. I suspected as much.

The LED lamps described as spots have a 30 degree beam angle. To my mind that's still a pretty wide angle when a long beam is needed.

 

[Magwych]

Yeah, the reflector on main is crap so making the bulb brighter does very little - I HID'd my low beam but never bothered with main as there seemed little point. Like you, a set of FF50s (with PIAAs) and it was like riding in daylight with main beam on.

Magwych - were you running a HID in the 'burnt' reflector - mine had started going that way but I always put it down to extra heat from the HID?

Andres

Yes I was running a HID. The main reason I went to HID was not for the extra apparent brightness, but because the headlight was eating filament bulbs at an alarming rate. The terminal block that fits onto the connectors of the H7 bulb gave up a long time ago, they had got so hot that they had become brittle and disintegrated in my hand when I was fitting one of the many replacment bulbs. I believe I have a bad earth or loose connection somewhere that is causing this, just have not been able to find it yet. One one trip through France, to Granada and back it destroyed three bulbs. Iahve heard of others suffering similar problems, motsly dismissed as the resut of buying cheap bulbs.

Going to an HID does not, I think, increase the temperature the damage was already done. Not, as BendyToy implies, by ham-fisted bulb replacement, but by continual bulb overheating as a result of a bad earth and/or supply. Evidence being the problem with the terminal block.

I have been measuring, musing and ruminating (dicking about) with the bits for a while. I had thought about using retrofit projector units to get a better beam pattern, but the units I have found so far on the interweb are too long front-to-back to fit, and do not look to be of the highest quality.

Plan B is to junk the nasty CEV reflector completely, and to cut a 4mm aluminium plate to the same outer dimensions, re-use the CEV mountings and then fit projector units for both dip and main, but to use ones that have mount points somewhere around the middle of the units. I have just found some units that come in 40mm diameter for the main.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221522840158?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This will just squeeze between the front glass and the rear cap, with ~10mm clearance each end. To keep the wonky-eye look I will use a larger unit for the dip, perhaps an old 1150 projector.

If you have ever wondered why the main beam seems to point to the left when you have the dipped set "just right", have a look here. This is looking at the top side of the unit, main to the left, dip to the right:

 

[Bendy toy]

The bulbs are a pig to fit so it's all too easy to get one out of line. It won't take long to cause reflector damage.
I like the idea of fitting a projector lamp into main beam. Only sang on a 1200 is the one piece headlamp glass. Maybe we need a pair of dipping Cibies and do away with BMW headlamp. Do they make them small enough?

 

[Magwych]

I had also considered just binning the lights completely and going for the easier option of this: http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo/594134/Spares/Headlights/Paaschburg/Conical-Twin-Headlamp-Unit

 

[Bendy toy]

At that price its worth a punt.