Which foot do you use??

Strange how there's so many different instructions being given on this. My ex South Wales Police instructor pulled me up for putting my left foot down, and told me that I should always put my right foot down, as this leaves your left foot free to put the gear into neutral as you came to a stop and to select the gears when ready to go.

I used to always stop with the rear brake, but years ago after an emergency stop which went horribly wrong I now use the front brake almost exclusively. Luckily there was no damage - trust me this was all down to luck not judgement - and only after the incident did I realise that I hadn't even touched the front brake, as at the time my instict was to mainly use the back brake. It scared the Bejeesus out of me and changed my riding style forever I can tell you. :eek

As an aside, I often found that when stopping the bike could drop to the left but after following a Police bike I noticed that when they stopped they used to reach forward with their right foot a bit as they came to a stop. They didn't over-do it but it was enough to make sure that the bike dropped automatically to the right. Try it - it works. :thumb2
 
teejay said:
Also ex Police rider and Instructor and always used and taught the hendon shuffle as it has been described, rear brake is the one you should be using during the latter stages of braking, smooth stop etc, balance and when stationary has the same effect as 'handbrake' on the car, it is not going to go anywhere, flat uphill or downhill.

Having said that went out on a BM test day when the new generation of boxers were launched a few years ago now, lots of different Forces there and a couple of them stopped with right foot down first with the bikes bouncing back and forth on the forks when they stopped-- lookes really strange.

As for the IAM (with all due respect) bunch of anoraks who take everything to the letter IMHO, the Roadcraft is guide and should be applied to the conditions, speed at the time, some of them cannot get the head round that and apply it rigidly no matter what is happening around them.

Anyway off to get dinner as at work on late shift, Bank Holiday which means double time ...still working for a couple more years

'Keep it smooth, keep it quick

Teejay
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I'm with TJ on this one:

I did my Anorak IAM 15 years ago and was sort of told off for doing a Hendon. Ever since then, I have always put Right foot down, held clutch in ready for the off. If it's a traffic jam and with temp lights, I then, depending the length of wait, switch feet, pop into neutral (sometimes trun engine off) and hold bike on rear brake. With a bit of practice, you can slow manoever and stop on the rear brake and 'let it go' just before you stop and plant your foot!

Also depend on the camber and if there is a pot hole in the road left or right.

I think it is very much horses for courses and a matter of style - at the time, the instructors simply dod not like seeing a bunch of trainees hopping from one foot to the other but not being consistent. He wanted all of us to make our minds up whether we wanted to use a left or right. (I think we all went for right in the end)

One thing I am really conscious off is the sheer brightness of the 12's rear brake light and the retinal burning effect this might have on the poor sod of a car driver behind me! - but hey, at least they can see that I am stopped.
 
TheWarlock said:
Jaq, for what it's worth, I always stop left foot down.

Slowing the bike down from speed, you always use a 60/40 front/rear split on the brakes. Some people will tell you 70/30. My argument to that is show me the difference. Having drained off the speed for the hazard, you are now at the point of wanting to stop. This is usually at a point where lots of other vehicles have stopped and waited, eg. stop lines at junctions, traffic lights etc. All the thousands of other vehicles have left rubber deposits, engine oil drips, diesel spills etc in minute quantities at these points, gradually creating a potentially slippery environment.

At this point, you are in the realm of tyre grip trade-off. Your tyres can give 100% to grip. If you are trying to steer grip is being reduced. If you are trying to brake, grip is being reduced, as the tyres try to accomplish all the things you are asking them to do. Lose the grip of the front tyre, a very easy thing to do in a slippery environment, and you lose the bike. It is much better in these situations to allow the front tyre to grip, so in the last few yards of stopping, release the front bike and bring the bike to a halt on the back brake and, as you disengage drive with the clutch, put your left foot down. Then, if you wish, for longer stops, right foot down, left foot up, into neutral, left foot back down and right foot up covering the brake again, the Hendon Shuffle, so called because this is how police motorcyclists are trained and I think few people would argue that traffic motorcyclists don't know what they are doing.

For moving off again, right foot down, left foot up, engage gear, left foot back down, right foot up covering the brake as you move off.

I find it very strange that an IAM observer would advocate pulling the bike to a halt on the front brake as the stopping zones are well known to be hazardous places. While I am not an IAM observer or instructor, I would be looking for a second opinion on this if I were you.

Cue all the IAM observers to tell me how wrong I am. :hide

HTH
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Joe, thats exactly as i was taught by Dave Carroll and did when i was examined by Jim McAllister many moons ago.
 
I snick it into neutral as I stop and put my left foot down so that I can cover the back brake whilst stopped. Then it's right, gear, left and pull away.
I don't see a better way. The right foot first to me is an unneccessary if you have good bike control and forward planning IMHO.

Anyway, I think it's b'llocks really, as long as you are covering the back brake when stopped then it shouldn't really matter if you add an extra shuffle.

As for both feet down :nono, You can't cover the brake that way.
 
Thank you all (including Neil!!), for your replies on this one.....

When I'm not thinking about it I'm left foot down first....just makes more sense to me to stop with both brakes......:nenau

However, when I am thinking about it, I'm trying to stop with my right foot down...maybe if I keep at it, it will feel more natural....we'll see.....

Trouble is, I really want to pass the Advanced....and don't want to be marked down on this.....but it seems to be a 50/50 split of opinion.....:eek:)
 
Jag - on reflection, when I stop at a junction, and want to turn left - I tend to use my left foot down (the bike then is naturally sloping the right way) and vica versa. (right foot down for a right turn) and right foot down when going straight ahead. (maybe I do a hot shoe shuffle!)

So long as it is safe and is total control (dare I say 'stylish'?) - thats all that matter?
 
I'm Lazy..?

I dont put any foots down. I just lean the Handle Bar on the side of the Vehicle beside me. Quietly!!

I stop in First Gear , right foot covers rear Brake & left foot down. Yeah its wrong. But a lot easier on a Hill.
BJ.
 
Atkule said:
Both feet if possible? IAMers, what's your slant on that?
For me, If short stop, leave in gear both feet down, if longer, neutral select 1st when ready to go :)
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I advocate neutral if you're likely to be stopped for more than a few seconds.

The essence is about safety and control. Both feet can be acceptable, and I sometimes do it, but then my left ankle is full of screws and plates and not very strong.


The 'Hendon Shuffle' issue seems to be a perpetual source of debate and argument.

If you have a bike that has linked brakes it would not seem to make a huge amount of difference which foot you put down first. All you need to practise is smoothness of braking.

As for litter /oil/crap on the road at junctions, I find the argument specious. It's a good idea to avoid the centre of any lane where oil and stuff might be deposited, and to use the outer of the tyre tracks left by cars and lorries.

On the other hand, if it's wet, the centre of the lane can often provide more grip as it hasn't been worn away and polished. Again, advanced riding is about making decisions about what you see at the time, and not a rote repetition of your basic training. Always ask yourself the question 'What advantage to I gain from bring where I am?'. If none, then consider taking up another position on the road.

ON a slope you might want to use the footbrake, so you need to put your left foot down. Then again, if you're skillful you might find that you can roll on throttle using clutch control, and easing off the handbrake as you go.

One piece of nonsense that seems to come from DSA basic test is that using the foot brake and opposed to the front brake means that you won't be catapulted over the handlebars if struck from the rear (because of th bike pivoting over a locked front wheel). I would suggest that if anything strikes you hard enough to make the bike pivot like that it wouldn't matter which brake was being used. The momentum you gain would be enough to shunt you out into the junction anyway.

FWIW, I tend to throw the bike into neutral just as I'm coming to a halt, and put my right foot down.

I haven't had any issues in RoSPA test (and repeat tests) doing that, and it wasn't mentioned at all on my IAM test. Most examiners are looking at your level of control and smoothness and safety.
 
Flipfly said:
Anyway, I think it's b'llocks really, as long as you are covering the back brake when stopped then it shouldn't really matter if you add an extra shuffle.

As for both feet down :nono, You can't cover the brake that way.
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So what's wrong with the lever on the handlebar that operates the front brake? It's ever so easy to maintain a squeeze on it whilst you're stopped. And given the servo brakes on the GS, it's even fairly simple to do hill starts off the front brake as your hand is reasonably free to roll on throttle. I find I only use the rear brake for starts on very steep hills.

And for some folk using both feet is the only sensible option. I'm thinking principally about those of shorter stature.

As mentioned previously, Roadcraft is not a Bible to be followed religiously. The whole principal of the police 'system' is that it provide a structured approach to dealing with hazards that you are able to 'pick and mix' at will and as needed.
 
Right or wrong, I always sit at the lights in gear with the clutch in and the front brake on, watching my mirrors very carefully. Probably put my right foot down first, as with linked brakes on the GS1200, who uses the rear at all? Don't think I have hardly touched it since buying it.
 
When did the Hendon shuffle come into use? The early police bikes would have been Right foot gear change and left foot brake, being good old British bikes. But since the introduction of Jap and European bikes the sides have swapped.
So did the shuffle exist before the Japs and Euro bikes? If so left foot down first was not covering the brake.

By the way, I am a right foot down 99% of the time.
 
Droopy Dick said:
So what's wrong with the lever on the handlebar that operates the front brake? It's ever so easy to maintain a squeeze on it whilst you're stopped. And given the servo brakes on the GS, it's even fairly simple to do hill starts off the front brake as your hand is reasonably free to roll on throttle. I find I only use the rear brake for starts on very steep hills.

And for some folk using both feet is the only sensible option. I'm thinking principally about those of shorter stature.

As mentioned previously, Roadcraft is not a Bible to be followed religiously. The whole principal of the police 'system' is that it provide a structured approach to dealing with hazards that you are able to 'pick and mix' at will and as needed.
Click to expand...

I also use the front brake, but when you are about to set off and you have to twist the throttle therefore making front brake operation a little harder than still maintaining the control of the rear brake. The fact you use the rear brake on very steep hills proves my point.

As for both feet down................I consider this an absolute no no as you cannot properly control the bike. I see alot of people on tip toes on both feet, where they would be far better to have one foot solidly planted on the ground. A quick slip off the side of the seat is all it takes
but you have to be confident in your ability to handle the size of the bike you are riding. Many standstill falls are caused because of trying to control the weight on tip toes, a firmly planted foot is far steadier IMHO.

Roadcraft is about the safest way of controlling the machine and it is based on logic that makes sense. When I play D on the guitar I play the same notes as everyone else but use a different finger pattern to the one in every book you'll ever read about guitaring. The chord still sounds the same so hey, no worries.
The same applies here to a certain degree, but you should be covering the back brake when stationary and you should have one foot firmly planted on the ground with the bike leaning slightly to that side. This is a safety issue and should be adhered to. The training schools now teach both feet down in many areas and I personally think this is very wrong.

If you cannot manage control of a machine due to it's size, then you really should be riding something else, or modifying it to match your size and strength.
 
this thread just confirms what i always thought about the IAM etc. :P

your meetings must be a riot :rolleyes:
 
funnily enough, the thought of a bit of training had crossed my mind recently. the thought of some pedant telling me which foot to put down at junctions, does not encourage me.


...especially when his own organisation don't seem able to agree amongst themselves.

SPLITTERS! :D
 
cookie said:
funnily enough, the thought of a bit of training had crossed my mind recently. the thought of some pedant telling me which foot to put down at junctions, does not encourage me.


...especially when his own organisation don't seem able to agree amongst themselves.

SPLITTERS! :D
Click to expand...

Exactly why I never actually took either the Rospa or the IAM courses. I have however had training from ex coppers and have read Roadcraft a few times and still try to put the system into operation.

You don't have to follow the heard if you want to ride well, use your own initiative and you will still get the good bits out of it without the pressure.

Worth having an assessment ride though with someone who doesn't have an interest in making you pass a course.:thumb2
 
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