Which foot do you use??

right I think I have my system down now.....approach stopping point...bike down into first gear, bring bike to a stand still using the back brake, left foot goes down, right foot stays on the back brake to steady the bike and such like....that's my system, figure the left leg is stronger than the right for keeping me up

Unless, there's a bit of an incline, or the road is otherwise naff then it all starts to resemble a Michael Flatley performance.....:aidan
 
Why would you want to change into Neutral???

To rest my left hand.

After a few years of dispatch riding and 27 years on the bike, I have a "trigger finger" which is basically scarred tendons.

If I know the wait is worth the shuffle, changing into neutral means I can relax the left hand, let the arm down and generally fiddle-arse about for a few minutes before the off.

cheers
 
To rest my left hand.

After a few years of dispatch riding and 27 years on the bike, I have a "trigger finger" which is basically scarred tendons.

If I know the wait is worth the shuffle, changing into neutral means I can relax the left hand, let the arm down and generally fiddle-arse about for a few minutes before the off.

cheers



Choosing neutral may be more sympathetic to dry clutch thrust bearing too ?
 
The Rozzers train their riders in this way with right foot down so it must be thge only way. maybe its a case of do whats necessary to pass the test and then do whats always felt natural. Abit like life really.

Are you sure???

Copper trained me and it was left foot down and right foot covering the brake :confused::confused::confused:
 
well the conclusion is in the end ''whatever makes you stop safely''.
being in control is the priority, not left or right foot a quick dance around the carpark!! it does not matter.:blast

:soapbox:just the ability to be in full control when slowing down to stop..:rob

Thank you slimbo - well said.

and as for you Garfield.....
"then it all starts to resemble a Michael Flatley performance....."

:jes

:thumb

nearly forgot - Mods,
please can we rename this thread "The Hokey Cokey"? :)
 
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Are you sure???

Copper trained me and it was left foot down and right foot covering the brake :confused::confused::confused:

:confused:......you're not the only one........:eek

Oh well....I'm back out with my observer on Wednesday.....I'll run you lot past him and see what he says.......:nenau :D
 
Are you sure???

Copper trained me and it was left foot down and right foot covering the brake :confused::confused::confused:


Ex bobby on my MAC course, same advice, the guy was retired mounted on a Pan European & boy could the guy hustle that lardy arse through the twisties, if ever I managed half as skilled I would be well pleased, more than happy to follow his procedure. I always try to knock in to neutral just prior to coming to a halt, seems to suit the boxer gearbox, but horses for courses , think about it too much= balls up.
 
I ride with the IAM and am training to be an observer.

This issue causes more confusion than anything else that I have come across. I have spoken in some detail with many of the senior observers at our group and they all sing from the same sheet. I understand that part of the confusion comes about from a change in current thinking/recommendation regarding the second half of the "shuffle"

All thinks being normal and without the challenge of reaching the floor from a tall/loaded/heavy bike, possibly with short legs or an uneven surface this is what we suggest.

The final part of your stopping procedure should be done with the rear brake, (below around 15mph). In the (admittedly rare) event of very slippery road a rear wheel skid is more controllable. Additionally you have your throttle hand free for a rapid change of plan should your mirror check show someone behind you isn't stopping! You also maximise traction for steering instead of sharing front wheel traction between steering and braking.

If stopping for a short spell hold it on the rear brake with the other foot down. (I have deliberately not said which foot as it depends on whether you are riding a modern bike or a classic Brit machine). This maintains the brake light illumination and leaves you in gear and immediately able to move off when safe to do so or if someone appears behind you and isn't stopping.

For a longer stop, if it is safe to do so swap feet and put it into neutral.

Hold the bike now on the front brake with your foot ready to select first at a moments notice. You are able to get away in an emergency almost instantly assuming that you have stopped far enough from any vehicle in front of you andf considered possible escape routes. (You may wish to reconsider this if you are on an older machine that does not have a front brake light switch and this in fact could be the reson behind a simpler shuffle these days).

When you have a warning that lights are changing imminently or there is an available gap in the traffic select first and swap feet so that you are again holding the bike on the rear brake.

When you move off you have one function for each limb to perform which seems simplest and most likely to result in complete control; gear lever foot suppporting machine, foot brake foot covering the brake, right hand on throttle (and not having to cover the front brake as well) left hand on clutch.

To my mind this system gives the most complete control under "normal circumstances" but it isn't cast in stone!

And by the way, if riding the IAM way is taking all of the fun out of your biking you either haven't understood what you are being taught, you are riding with the wrong group or your requirements for fun require dangerous riding, most frequently riding too fast to stop in the distance that you can see ahead of you. Virtually every associate that rides with our group enjoys their ride and frequently have big silly grins on their faces when it all starts to come together and they find themselves riding more smoothly, more safely and actually faster.
 
I ride with the IAM and am training to be an observer.

This issue causes more confusion than anything else that I have come across. I have spoken in some detail with many of the senior observers at our group and they all sing from the same sheet. I understand that part of the confusion comes about from a change in current thinking/recommendation regarding the second half of the "shuffle"

All thinks being normal and without the challenge of reaching the floor from a tall/loaded/heavy bike, possibly with short legs or an uneven surface this is what we suggest.

The final part of your stopping procedure should be done with the rear brake, (below around 15mph). In the (admittedly rare) event of very slippery road a rear wheel skid is more controllable. Additionally you have your throttle hand free for a rapid change of plan should your mirror check show someone behind you isn't stopping! You also maximise traction for steering instead of sharing front wheel traction between steering and braking.

If stopping for a short spell hold it on the rear brake with the other foot down. (I have deliberately not said which foot as it depends on whether you are riding a modern bike or a classic Brit machine). This maintains the brake light illumination and leaves you in gear and immediately able to move off when safe to do so or if someone appears behind you and isn't stopping.

For a longer stop, if it is safe to do so swap feet and put it into neutral.

Hold the bike now on the front brake with your foot ready to select first at a moments notice. You are able to get away in an emergency almost instantly assuming that you have stopped far enough from any vehicle in front of you and considered possible escape routes. (You may wish to reconsider this if you are on an older machine that does not have a front brake light switch and this in fact could be the reason behind a simpler shuffle these days).

When you have a warning that lights are changing imminently or there is an available gap in the traffic select first and swap feet so that you are again holding the bike on the rear brake.

When you move off you have one function for each limb to perform which seems simplest and most likely to result in complete control; gear lever foot supporting machine, foot brake foot covering the brake, right hand on throttle (and not having to cover the front brake as well) left hand on clutch.

To my mind this system gives the most complete control under "normal circumstances" but it isn't cast in stone!

And by the way, if riding the IAM way is taking all of the fun out of your biking you either haven't understood what you are being taught, you are riding with the wrong group or your requirements for fun require dangerous riding, most frequently riding too fast to stop in the distance that you can see ahead of you. Virtually every associate that rides with our group enjoys their ride and frequently have big silly grins on their faces when it all starts to come together and they find themselves riding more smoothly, more safely and actually faster.


Excellent post Kevan...sums up things very nicely, especially the last paragraph....:thumb2
 
I understand that part of the confusion comes about from a change in current thinking/recommendation regarding the second half of the "shuffle"

Change in current thinking?????? What a load of balls!!!!! What's changed to require a new way of thinking?? :rob

An instructor has recently taught a friend of mine to put both feet down when coming to a stop (due to new thinking)?????? That is not safe!! Covering the back brake to me makes sense.

As for sitting in gear, that's a no no. Whilst in gear you are risking unwanted forward motion (clutch failure, cable snapping etc etc). Therefore you should be in neutral. If you observation is good, you should be able to tell when your lights are likely to change and therefore be prepared.

Sometimes I think that the whole advanced training system is run by jobsworth know-it-alls!!!! I don't mind being told my lines could be better or my observations are not as good as they could be, but I'll be fecked if I'm going to be told that a system that has worked for years, regarding my fancy footwork, is wrong.
One more reason not to arse about with taking an irrelevant test.

The basic system has been the same for years and I can't see any reason for changing it. What people need to learn is how to control a bike a low speed/standstill, how to ride safely and smoothly, and how to maintain progress without danger to yourself or others.
 
As for sitting in gear, that's a no no.


Please feel free to read it again Flipfly, I said stopping for a short spell hold it on the rear brake. i.e. a brief stop

Are you going to do the entire double shuffle for what may only be a second or two? I think not and if you do well that's your choice.

Logic does suggest that it's not the best choice as any delay in getting away is likely to end up with an impatient driver behind testing your theory that big guys bounce better as they pull away whilst looking the wrong way.
 
Please feel free to read it again Flipfly, I said stopping for a short spell hold it on the rear brake. i.e. a brief stop

Are you going to do the entire double shuffle for what may only be a second or two? I think not and if you do well that's your choice.

Logic does suggest that it's not the best choice as any delay in getting away is likely to end up with an impatient driver behind testing your theory that big guys bounce better as they pull away whilst looking the wrong way.

I was referring to those who say they sit there with the bike in gear not to your post. I tend to observe the lights as I approach them (when visible for a distance) and plan my timing that way. If the lights have just gone to red than it's neutral straight away, if they have been on red for a while then I do as you suggest.

The friend was not an advanced course but the basic CBT/direct access course. I was taught the shuffle when I did my test, it improves your control of the machine and shows the tester that you are in control, new teaching/thinking is arse IMO.

As for getting run up the backside by the car behind, maybe I'm lucky, but I've never come close to that happening since I learnt how to ride. Nearly happened when I was 16 and flipped my Suzuki 50 when my brother was on the back :o
 
Hi there all

As a IAM member and a Police Class 1 advanced rider the way that the IAM taught me to way the Police taught me were very different and in my experiance the IAM dont like change but if you have a dual brake system bike then there is no reason why you cant put your right foot on the floor and place the bike in to neutral thus reducing wear on the bike.

Then when you pull off or make ready to pull off it is much easier to get the bke into first and full away which if you think about it seems safe as houses but we all know that they do fall down from time to time.

Anyway that is my two peneth worth for all its worth however you are dealing with BMW riders and IAM members who DONT like CHANGE at all so good luck.

All the best

Mark
 
They are aren't they (sorry pops :hide)????????

all the ones who let me off when I was being particularly naughty, are saints, deserving promotion, pay rises and being able to work tax free for the rest of their life....

The Surrey copper who gave me 3 points.....well.......:mad:




:D
 
And by the way, if riding the IAM way is taking all of the fun out of your biking you either haven't understood what you are being taught, you are riding with the wrong group or your requirements for fun require dangerous riding, most frequently riding too fast to stop in the distance that you can see ahead of you. Virtually every associate that rides with our group enjoys their ride and frequently have big silly grins on their faces when it all starts to come together and they find themselves riding more smoothly, more safely and actually faster.


Ummmm, I think I understood what I was being taught - I did pass the test 1st time and the IAM guys were happy with my riding from an early stage.

I have not ridden with IAM group socially ( as opposed to being tutored) before test or since, partly because of time and work constraints, partly because I prefer to ride on my own and partly because I found them dull.

My riding definitely does NOT require any danger - despite my desire for experience and adventure, I have a wife, 2 lovely daughters and satisfying career. And in my line of business I do see the effects of unskilled fast riding.
I do enjoy skilled, controlled advanced riding and agree it is often faster:- but dear God, if we both meet for a day, please treat me as an adult (with 27 years riding, no accidents, clean licence and 12,000 miles p.a.) rather than a naughty kindergarden kid!!!!
 
The friend was not an advanced course but the basic CBT/direct access course.

Perhaps your friend was at the stage where confidence and balance dictate putting both feet down as a matter of prudence. I believe that they also teach beginners to ride around one third of the way from the gutter towards the white line of any given lane but as we all progress through experience and training we learn to command our lane and ride further out into the road as well as stopping confidently with just our one chosen foot on the ground for support.

I'ts just progress and not a mutually exclusive contradiction.

We are not a million miles apart in our approach to things Flipfly.

As I'm older and thinner than you I appreciate that I won't bounce as well and am keen not to have that confimed. I do however want the sheer bloody beautiful adrenaline jag that I get every time something scrapes the floor on a corner taken as nearly perfectly as I can manage:thumb2:beerjug:

Now because I am apparently too incompetent to multi-quote see the next post...................
 


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