I always though it was called the Hendon Shuffle 'cos Police training college is in Hendon, but I could be wrong.
nope....... you are right
Which foot do you use??
- Thread starter Jaq
- Start date
nope....... you are right
I always though it was called the Hendon Shuffle 'cos Police training college is in Hendon, but I could be wrong.
is that like "The Wizard Whoopsie"
(lay it down on its side in deep water... tends to kill the engine)
Bike Cops
Last month followed 2 bike cops in Edinburgh and chuckled as they stopped ahead of me at red light (I was in a tin box). They were riding side by side and the guy on the left stopped and put his left foot down, while the guy on the right stopped and put his right foot down. Like synchronised swimmers.
Then the left hand guy swapped over and put his right foot down, so they both clonked into gear when light turned green.
Hendon shuffle? Bollox. Whatever is safe and smooth at the time is OK for me. I don't even think about it.
Last month followed 2 bike cops in Edinburgh and chuckled as they stopped ahead of me at red light (I was in a tin box). They were riding side by side and the guy on the left stopped and put his left foot down, while the guy on the right stopped and put his right foot down. Like synchronised swimmers.
Then the left hand guy swapped over and put his right foot down, so they both clonked into gear when light turned green.
Hendon shuffle? Bollox. Whatever is safe and smooth at the time is OK for me. I don't even think about it.
I always though it was called the Hendon Shuffle 'cos Police training college is in Hendon, but I could be wrong.
Only for the 'Met'
Same here !
except the bit in red. Hey Og, will I PM him ? It'd be a shame if he missed it.is that like "The Wizard Whoopsie"
(lay it down on its side in deep water... tends to kill the engine)
The idea of doing the last bit of braking using the back brake is to stop the forks diving.... then if the lights change quickly, or its a give way, out goes the clutch and off you go, having just put your left foot down..
No fork dive on a GS so thats that one sorted
North Wales police trainers changed from the shuffle to putting the right foot down not so long ago....In other words doing the last bit of braking on the front brake.
Having Leicestershire bike cops assessed by North Wales examiners put paid to the shuffle... but now its all in house re-tests .. so its back to left foot down again
In other words.. .the cops can't make their minds up which way to do it.. so why worry? do whatever feels best for you....
Only thing I'd say is get used to putting one or the other down.. both down or paddling looks like you don't know what you're doing....
Saying that if you're fully loaded with a pillion its a different matter
No fork dive on a GS so thats that one sorted
North Wales police trainers changed from the shuffle to putting the right foot down not so long ago....In other words doing the last bit of braking on the front brake.
Having Leicestershire bike cops assessed by North Wales examiners put paid to the shuffle... but now its all in house re-tests .. so its back to left foot down again
In other words.. .the cops can't make their minds up which way to do it.. so why worry? do whatever feels best for you....
Only thing I'd say is get used to putting one or the other down.. both down or paddling looks like you don't know what you're doing....
Saying that if you're fully loaded with a pillion its a different matter
Nate
Registered user
If your looking at easy motorcycling or doing your advanced tests, then the way forwards is ....
which ever is the safest / most comfortable
It ain't hard is it guys.... if the road drops away on the left, then you would stick your right foot out.... if there is diesel / gravel on the right, then you would stick your left foot out...
If your stopping on the flat for lights, put your right foot down, that way you can hold your left foot over the gear change, and if you need to scarper quickish (i.e. car coming up behind, ambulance etc etc) then you can snick the gear and go....
There isn't a right or wrong answer... every situation is different and maybe this is what advanced instruction teaches, is the ability to make a decision based on the information the rider is presented with
which ever is the safest / most comfortable
It ain't hard is it guys.... if the road drops away on the left, then you would stick your right foot out.... if there is diesel / gravel on the right, then you would stick your left foot out...
If your stopping on the flat for lights, put your right foot down, that way you can hold your left foot over the gear change, and if you need to scarper quickish (i.e. car coming up behind, ambulance etc etc) then you can snick the gear and go....
There isn't a right or wrong answer... every situation is different and maybe this is what advanced instruction teaches, is the ability to make a decision based on the information the rider is presented with
Does it matter. 
Indeed not.....'cos I passed the Advanced just before Christmas!!!...
Perhaps!Does it matter.
I was taught, right foot down. The reason given was that it is smoother, less bobbing about on the bike and therefore less chance of the rider losing control of it.
There's also a more pragmatic reason that applies particularly in stops where there are following vehicles:
(I'll take it as a given that unless the stop is going to be very short, the rider should select neutral to avoid the possible clutch related issues.)
This applies equally for stop-start riding in traffic but the best example is when you are at the head of a traffic queue, at traffic lights etc.
In neutral, with right foot down, when the lights change to amber, all the rider has to do is engage the clutch and select gear. Any shoulder checks can be made and the rider is ready to move away as the lights go to green.
Left-footers do all their shuffling and bobbing around with following traffic itching to move on, probably in gear and creeping up on them. They are even more likely to be frustrated by a slow move-off by a bike that may have filtered to the front.
The whole essence of Advanced Riding is to minimise the amount of time exposed to danger. The following traffic represents a danger.
When coming to a halt, select neutral before the bike is stationary. The final braking effort is easily accomplished using just the front brake without any dive - if the final speed is low.
Those people who cannot do this are the ones who brake hard and late.
Of course there is no absolute rule. It's common-sense to alter which foot you use according to the conditions but in my experience, there are rarely conditions that cause me to alter to left foot down.
Then again, I have ridden with a lot of people who rarely seem to give any thought to where they are going to stop, before they have actually done so!
I was taught the exact opposite, for the reason that you had the rear brake covered. I understand you have the front brake covered, but with the left foot down you can cover both brakes. If someone rear ends you, there is a better chance of stopping before being shunted into the flow of the cross traffic whose lights are on green.
In the grand scheme of things I don't think it matters. I have never held up traffic by doing the shuffle as I am always looking at the flow of the traffic and the lights if visible, to see when I will be in a position to move off. If done properly, the shuffle is smooth and shows you have control over your machine. I like to see fellow shufflers, lets me know that there are still some proper riders out there
Nate
Registered user
So your sat at lights, you see a car approaching you in your mirrors, there coming fast, there not going to stop....
You're going to sit there like a lemon
and wait for them to hit you? Really?All the time, thinking, it's ok... I am covering my back brake, that will stop me?
Not me mate... I would be out of there like a stabbed rat...
Having the rear brake covered (I expect you mean applied) will do diddly-squat if you have the front applied in the event of being rear-ended.
If you have no stationary vehicles behind you, keeping an eye on the possible high speed approach of such, in your mirrors is a better safeguard.
Of course, in the event of this scenario, left-footers would spend so much time shuffling and bobbing that they'd still get rear-ended, whereas right-footers would just engage a gear and move to a safe position!
So your sat at lights, you see a car approaching you in your mirrors, there coming fast, there not going to stop....
You're going to sit there like a lemon
All the time, thinking, it's ok... I am covering my back brake, that will stop me?
Not me mate... I would be out of there like a stabbed rat...
Not exactly what I meant. Most shunts are little ones and they are the ones that you don't see coming. I'd rather have a knackered bike than be run over by the cross flow traffic. If you have long enough to see the guy coming then yeah you are gonna move.
In 20 years of riding bikes I've never once had cause to put this into practice. Call me lucky
Having the rear brake covered (I expect you mean applied) will do diddly-squat if you have the front applied in the event of being rear-ended.
If you have no stationary vehicles behind you, keeping an eye on the possible high speed approach of such, in your mirrors is a better safeguard.
Of course, in the event of this scenario, left-footers would spend so much time shuffling and bobbing that they'd still get rear-ended, whereas right-footers would just engage a gear and move to a safe position!
I disagree, but then I'm just arguementative.
How long do you honestly think it takes to lift your leg and stick it in gear???
If you are rear ended with your foot on the gear lever, what are the chances of knocking it into gear and then getting side swiped buy the cross traffic??
A million arguements for and against, but in the real world it probably doesn't really matter.
I feel confident that the shuffle is safe and it has been for many years.
I hope I never have to deal with being rear ended, or for that matter being shunted into the cross flow.
You won't change my mind with any of your 'but if' arguements against the shuffle. It's neat, it works, I have all the brakes covered and I am alert and aware of the conditions around me. Sounds about as safe as you can be in my book.
Please explain how the rear brake is more effective than the front in the scenario you describe?
You are still going to take longer than the 'right-footer' in the same circumstances. That will increase your chances of being struck in comparison.
Ah! There you go then, you haven't been riding long enough yet!In 20 years of riding bikes I've never once had cause to put this into practice. Call me lucky
More time than it takes to just select a gear and move given that you must first remove your right foot from the brake and place it on the ground before you can raise the left one and select a gear.
Erm. My left foot may be on the footpeg but it is not ON the gear pedal.
But it isn't my intention to change your mind.
I know that some people believe that they can brake safely in emergency applications without ABS too!
I just think that others should be allowed to hear both sides and allow them to make-up their own minds.
Please explain how the rear brake is more effective than the front in the scenario you describe?
If you get tapped from behind, surely relying on the front brake could cause it to lock up and punt you off, leaving yourself to be run over by the car???
Using the back brake and less front would reduce the risk of it locking up and yet still allow you to stop before entering the cross flow traffic.
It's all based on the assumption that people remain calm in such a circumstance. Likelyhood is, most riders will grab a lever full of brakes and lock the wheels up anyway.
Yes it takes a little longer then just snicking it into gear, but if the car is travelling that fast and you have been watching him in your mirror, why would you be panicking for time anyway???
I am just a pup, but they'll be no bowing to superior knowledge on this one
Why is a locked front brake (when stationary) more likely to cause you to fall off than a similarly locked rear?
Given that your original scenario is one that applies both brakes to prevent a "punt from the rear" pushing you out into the traffic flow, falling off in front of the car that punted you may be the lesser of the two evils.
In this scenario, there is no advantage applying both brakes as the machine is stationary and the front brake is vastly more effective than the rear.
Are "we" not stopped already? Otherwise what foot is down doesn't come into the equation.
See above.
You assume that it's obvious that the approaching vehicle isn't going to stop from the moment it comes into view.
That is rarely the case. Often it's not a vehicle travelling at high speed that is the problem, it's the distracted driver keeping at the limit who doesn't appreciate that traffic ahead is at a standstill, that gives more concern.
From experience off road, a rear slide is far more controllable than if the front lets go because you can still steer. Once you lose traction at the front your steering has gone and this is ultimately alot harder to control.
The point is I'd rather stop before the cross flow than be run over. Each scenario would be different and this is a single scenario. As is your 'ride away from the problem' situation.
In your case, say you have clicked a gear, then muppet still hits you. What are the cahnces of you holding on to the bars. Depending on the impact, but I'd say they were slim.
So you now have an out of control bike, in gear with you on board, travelling into the cross flow.
I know where I would rather be
As for being stopped, yes we are stopped, but less braking force is required to hold a bike at a standstill, than is required to stop a moving bike. Therefore, covering the brake means you aren't moving but you will have a small amount of pressure on the lever. Should you get hit, you could then apply more front and rear brake to come to a controllable stop.
Rear brake is less effective then the front, but the 2 together are more effective than either individually.
The point is I'd rather stop before the cross flow than be run over. Each scenario would be different and this is a single scenario. As is your 'ride away from the problem' situation.
In your case, say you have clicked a gear, then muppet still hits you. What are the cahnces of you holding on to the bars. Depending on the impact, but I'd say they were slim.
So you now have an out of control bike, in gear with you on board, travelling into the cross flow.
I know where I would rather be
As for being stopped, yes we are stopped, but less braking force is required to hold a bike at a standstill, than is required to stop a moving bike. Therefore, covering the brake means you aren't moving but you will have a small amount of pressure on the lever. Should you get hit, you could then apply more front and rear brake to come to a controllable stop.
Rear brake is less effective then the front, but the 2 together are more effective than either individually.
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