laikin' art
Guest
That's one thing the Hendon Shuffle isn't.
Which foot do you use??
- Thread starter Jaq
- Start date
That's one thing the Hendon Shuffle isn't.
I disagree. When performed well it's like motorcycle ballet. Forward thinking and observation allow you plenty of time to tippy toe through it with fluidity.
Dragging a foot 600 yards up the road whilst contemptating whether your going fast enough not to topple over......now that's scruffy riding
laikin' art
Guest
The Hendon Shuffle is unnecessary.
It is often used by those new to advanced riding until they learn that advanced riding is not about following robotic procedures.
It is often used by those new to advanced riding until they learn that advanced riding is not about following robotic procedures.
I must be a crap beginner then
Those that don't use it choose not to because they are riding something that is too big that they have no control over, so they rubbish the system so that they can avoid using it and falling off their bikes at every set of traffic lights. Only real men use the shuffle, because they are strong enough to have control of their bikes.
I think the above matches your post on the stupidity stakes
Nate
Registered user
I must be a crap beginner then
Those that don't use it choose not to because they are riding something that is too big that they have no control over, so they rubbish the system so that they can avoid using it and falling off their bikes at every set of traffic lights. Only real men use the shuffle, because they are strong enough to have control of their bikes.
I think the above matches your post on the stupidity stakes
Ummm, well in my opinion (humble as it may be) neither of these posts are stupid...
1) Advanced riding isnt about following robotic procedures, it about taking in information, acting on it, and following the system to give the biker the best chance on the road.... As I have previously said, every environment is different and thus needs to be acted upon according to the circustances
2) Some people do ride bikes that are high / heavy and thus do put both feet down or one foot towards the higher ground
The first time I saw the Shuffle being taught was at Hendon suitably enough. There were at least twenty on the course and they were setting off for the manoeuvring area, it was hilarious to see them all bobbing up and down in concert!
Completely unnecessary too!
Well we agree on something!Dragging a foot 600 yards up the road whilst contemptating whether your going fast enough not to topple over......now that's scruffy riding
Not that it follows that those who use their right foot do any such thing.
Or that "left-footers" do it any more than anyone else either.
The dispute over the Hendon Shuffle centres around its necessity or not.
To date, no-one has made a case for it on any grounds whatsoever, possibly the reason why it's not taught any more?
laikin' art
Guest
I must be a crap beginner then
You may or may not be.
Regardless you don't seem to have yet worked out that the Hendon Shuffle is unnecessary in most situations. It's not even taught by the people for which it was originated any more, so even they've seen the light.
Ummm, well in my opinion (humble as it may be) neither of these posts are stupid...
1) Advanced riding isnt about following robotic procedures, it about taking in information, acting on it, and following the system to give the biker the best chance on the road.... As I have previously said, every environment is different and thus needs to be acted upon according to the circustances
2) Some people do ride bikes that are high / heavy and thus do put both feet down or one foot towards the higher ground
My stupidity comment was aimed more at the shuffle being used by newbies to Advanced riding. My Dad who has been riding for many years, who is a police advanced rider still does the shuffle. I've ridden to the system for 20 years and use the shuffle, as do many others.
The system actually is a set of fairly robotic procedures, the key is knowing which part of the system to use at any particular time.
The best exampleI have seen of this robotic procedure is Bill Ward. He was an advanced driving instructor and an amazing rider. He is a self confessed manufactured rider. He said to me that he had never riden a bike before joining the police. They taught him to ride using a very defined set of instructions. If I can be half the rider Bill is I'd be happy.
The first time I saw the Shuffle being taught was at Hendon suitably enough. There were at least twenty on the course and they were setting off for the manoeuvring area, it was hilarious to see them all bobbing up and down in concert!
Completely unnecessary too!
Well we agree on something!
Not that it follows that those who use their right foot do any such thing.
Or that "left-footers" do it any more than anyone else either.
The dispute over the Hendon Shuffle centres around its necessity or not.
To date, no-one has made a case for it on any grounds whatsoever, possibly the reason why it's not taught any more?
You haven't given me a case against it then, or my reasonings don't seem to hold any gravitas with you.
Your reasons against it hold no gravitas either. Use it or don't use it, it boils down to personal choice and I feel happy with the system and it's done me no harm. Neither do I consider it unnecessary, but that's my opinion.
I wasn't suggesting that right footers drag there foot, I was mearly pointing out what truely scruffy riding looks like
now that i've got my anorak on
i'll jump in with my bit. i'm on the fence with this one as i think there are +'s & -'s to the whole thing. A well executed shuffle is a beautiful thing but then so is a monster wheelie through the gears. I guess it depends on your view of what a well ridden bike is, Does yer advanced rider look more in control than mr Rossi, yes and no. I've done the knee down wheelie thing and got great pleasure from getting it right butthen i've also got my kicks from getting a well poised shuffle right off the lights. Nobodies right or wrong it what yer comfortable with, The Police teach it because to the observer it looks professional, Its also handy while your holding the clutch in you've got the brake covered leaving the right hand free to pick yer nose. I'ts no good trying to do it on either a race rep or a cruiser as the pegs are in the wrong place, I've tryed it on the harley and it don't work but i've found a new way to look cool at the lights. Yer ride up on yer HOG, as you near a dead stop lean the bike over to the left 5degrees and rest it on the primery cover, cool as yer like, both feet up just like sitting at home on the sofa. Chick just love it
i'll jump in with my bit. i'm on the fence with this one as i think there are +'s & -'s to the whole thing. A well executed shuffle is a beautiful thing but then so is a monster wheelie through the gears. I guess it depends on your view of what a well ridden bike is, Does yer advanced rider look more in control than mr Rossi, yes and no. I've done the knee down wheelie thing and got great pleasure from getting it right butthen i've also got my kicks from getting a well poised shuffle right off the lights. Nobodies right or wrong it what yer comfortable with, The Police teach it because to the observer it looks professional, Its also handy while your holding the clutch in you've got the brake covered leaving the right hand free to pick yer nose.
I'ts no good trying to do it on either a race rep or a cruiser as the pegs are in the wrong place, I've tryed it on the harley and it don't work but i've found a new way to look cool at the lights. Yer ride up on yer HOG, as you near a dead stop lean the bike over to the left 5degrees and rest it on the primery cover, cool as yer like, both feet up just like sitting at home on the sofa. Chick just love it
How is it possible to have such a long debate about something so totally obvious?
THERE ARE NO RULES, SIMPLY USE WHICHEVER FOOT IS BEST FOR THE SITUATION THAT YOU FIND YOURSELF IN, IF THAT FOOT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT THEN CHANGE TO THE OTHER! - HOW COMPLICATED CAN IT BE? - DOH!
THERE ARE NO RULES, SIMPLY USE WHICHEVER FOOT IS BEST FOR THE SITUATION THAT YOU FIND YOURSELF IN, IF THAT FOOT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT THEN CHANGE TO THE OTHER! - HOW COMPLICATED CAN IT BE? - DOH!
TheWarlock
Registered user
But the question was which foot do you use? And as with most things on this site, folk come on and argue that their way is best and why. Entertainment at its best. Jaq has long since passed her test, but the debate rages on.
Go Hendon Shuffle.
Go Hendon Shuffle.
Er, yes I have: It takes too long to accomplish and it adds to potential instability.
Those two factors are always present.
Surely good observation will leave you with plenty of time to execute the move ????
As for instability, I haven't ever dropped a bike because of the shuffle or even come close for that matter. I'll refer you back to my comment about little men who ride bikes that are too big for them.
The fact that you have poo poo'd every answer I have had to the subject shows me that you are not really interested. You are right and I'm a fool, but I am in control and comfortable with my feminine side enough to make me want to continue with my little riverdance, that's all that matters
Yes. Where such is possible. By the same token, good observation will prepare the right-footer to be ready to move away even sooner.
No matter what you say, you cannot reduce the difference in time it takes to:
Lift the right foot off the peg.
Place the right foot securely on the ground.
Raise the left foot to the peg.
Operate the clutch and engage gear.
Lift the left foot off the peg.
Place the left foot securely on the ground.
Lift the right foot to the peg.
Move away.
Compared to:
Operate the clutch and engage gear.
Move away.
(In both cases I have ignored the safety checks for the purposes of the explanation).
Why make things more complicated than they need be?
This unnecessary procedure was dropped by police (except the Met) when I did my training, way back when.
I know some quite short people who ride big bikes. Are you saying that it's their own fault if they topple over when doing the shuffle? Or just that there should be a minimum height requirement for motorcyclists?
The fact that I stayed out of this thread for so long actually shows that I knew that it would come to this and I should have stayed out.
You are right about one thing: I am not going to be persuaded that a procedure that has been abandoned by those who once taught it (for the practical reasons stated above) should be reinstated because of some notion of tradition.
Fool is not a word I used or even implied. I have no problem with you continuing with the Shuffle. If I was riding with you in the capacity of an observer, I would advise you to alter but I would not consider it a demerit if you didn't. As an examiner I might though, especially if it demonstrably heeded 'progress.'You are right and I'm a fool, but I am in control and comfortable with my feminine side enough to make me want to continue with my little riverdance, that's all that matters
Mike, I'm not suggesting that you are in anyway wrong in your own views, just that I have always done the shuffle, I'm comfortable with it, it does not impede my progress in anyway or endanger me anymore than if I chose to put my right foot down.
I've always used it, I like to see other riders using it for various reasons, which you don't agree with but then that's what personal opinions are about.
I do think that if someone can't perform the shuffle and drops the bike due to being unable to hold the weight of the bike, they should consider a smaller machine. If you cannot handle the weight of the bike you ride then I would consider that far more dangerous than whichever foot you use.
I feel happier having both brakes covered. I also feel happier leaning the bike onto my left leg.
I understand that it takes slightly longer to perform, but it's a second or two to do properly, in an emergency I'd be away quicker. I've always used the flow of the traffic to guage when to do the shuffle and have always been ready to go as the lights change.
The last thng I want to do is fall out over this, lets agree to disagree
My edict
I teach my Associates to put neither foot down.
I find I get consistent results......
I teach my Associates to put neither foot down.
I find I get consistent results......
But the question was which foot do you use? And as with most things on this site, folk come on and argue that their way is best and why. Entertainment at its best. Jaq has long since passed her test, but the debate rages on.
Go Hendon Shuffle.
Sometimes I use my left, sometimes I use my right and sometimes I use both - this is the correct procedure.
To date, no-one has made a case for it on any grounds whatsoever, possibly the reason why it's not taught any more?
Stop biting Mike.... leave 'em to it
I dipped out of this one a long time ago
Just popped back in again though
I just love it when someone tells me they've been riding for a whole twenty years
I was riding before they were born... but that is of no consequence, to see someone riding neatly, smoothly, and in control is of the essence...
... but I don't se it very often
D'ya know that I've done a few IAM test for a neighbouring group, their examiner puts his 'bike away for winter... and they swerve at the last minute to avoid running over man hole covers and white paint
it's how they're taught 
... even when they're upright and travelling in a straight line
... even when you could see the offending article 200 yards away
Flipfly ... the Hendon Shuffle is archaic and ridiculous... trust me
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