Why has nobody...

[Nick V]

I think that is where you are maybe wrong.

Punters are drawn to the GS because it has now morphed into what it never was before: An easy to ride, reasonably powerful, suitably quirky motorcycle.... but more importantly one that can be 'tuned' (for want of a better word) to deliver more power without losing its inherently easy going and forgiving nature. In short, it has become a sports bike that doesn't bite the hand that feeds it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Don't forget that it's strengths can be 'developed' into different areas, too. Which is why peeps are waking up to the fact that GSs and GSAs are capable of being the basis for a pretty fine Supermoto, too.

A suggestion that it might bite back is treated with dread, as witnessed by the pages on whether the 2014 model might be fitted with a steering damper, coupled to demands that it should it be then the fitment should be backdated to embrace 2013 edition bikes too, at no cost (naturally).

Huh. These are the people who, in my experience, beg off when challenged to a fast run. Or refuse to take the bike out more than once a week because "...I don't want it to have too much mileage", or b!tch about warranties and service plans.

That it is apparently uncomfortable on rides of anything greater than 100 miles...

I did my first Saddlesore 1000 on my previous '09 GSA. The only physical problem I ended with was a sore lower back - and that was my fault for carrying a backpack instead of using a topbox.
Maybe the reading on the Whinge-o-meter would go down somewhat if these fops stuck to their limos and Range Rovers.

buffets its riders from pillar-to-post...

Odd... I seem to have heard that complaint on American forums re. the K1200R.
Doesn't seem to stop people riding them at 200 Km/h+, though.

has a finish that would shame a rusty Angolan trawler...

You want to try the average Honda Transalp after it's been through a heavy offroad session...

and (until recently) had a headlight that would not illuminate better than a snuffed candle...

Almost all manufacturers are guilty of this.
Who remembers the 35W bulbs Yamaha put in the Thunderace?

does though bring into question why anyone really buys one.

Image reasons. In South Africa, at least...

 

[Wilsdorf]

its far too heavy and big to make any sort of sports bike.

It's not that bad at playing sports bike, and it is lighter than a lot of real sportsbikes or sports tourers.

 

[Nick V]

It's not that bad at playing sports bike, and it is lighter than a lot of real sportsbikes or sports tourers.

+1.

This also goes some way to explaining definitively why Ducati launched the Multistrada 1200, and KTM the 990 Supermoto R. Although if someone were to say that argument doesn't make sense, here's the clincher: they were built - and continue to be built - because there is market demand for them.

 

[BBB61]

So engines are available.

That's the expense and lack of availability theories hit beneath the waterline.

One second-hand report of one engine (which has been sold) being available. How many others are available? How has expense been dismissed as not a problem on the basis of one report where the cost of the engine wasn't even mentioned?

 

[(RIP) Miff]

Maybe the reason it's not been done is that we are all basically happy with our bike's power. Maybe a can and remap give it a bit more, but we aren't chasing massive increases?

Also, it's not going to be an easy conversion like the old GSXR7/11 concept, or at least, people fear it won't be easy. I know anything is possible (Blackbird motor in a Fireblade frame with turbo, Suzuki GSX1100 taken out to 1600cc with N2O) with the right tools and skills.

 

[Nick V]

Maybe the reason it's not been done is that we are all basically happy with our bike's power. Maybe a can and remap give it a bit more, but we aren't chasing massive increases?

More power is always more useful/fun. But some find it easier than others to forget that no matter the bike or depth of wallet, there's always a point at which the law of diminishing returns starts to take effect.

Every one of us would also do well to remember that just because we have our own opinion on the way things **SHOULD (tm)** be done, it doesn't mean we've found a new religion.
And even if we have, there's no justification for (or need to) ram it down anyone else's throat...

Sometimes you're ahead; sometimes you're behind. The race is short and, in the end, it's only against the clock...

Also, it's not going to be an easy conversion like the old GSXR7/11 concept, or at least, people fear it won't be easy.

No matter the difficulty, those who really want to will find some way.
The important thing to remember is that the opinion of somebody who doesn't like what you're doing in no way invalidates your good experience of it.

 

[Wapping]

One second-hand report of one engine (which has been sold) being available. How many others are available? How has expense been dismissed as not a problem on the basis of one report where the cost of the engine wasn't even mentioned?

Oh God, it wasn't serious. A deliberately provocative statement in the hope of carrying the thread along; nothing more. The whole idea of starting the thread was just an attempt to raise the 1200 section above, 'Have you got a film of your awesome exhaust, mate'

It seems to have worked too. Bod's for once thinking of something to say instead of gawping open mouthed at the wonder of it all.

 

[karlp]

Why replace the engine.

Use standard engine.

Increase compression slightly by skimming the heads.

Either replace the heads with HP2 sport (if compatible)
or port the existing heads, enlarge valve seats and replace with HP2 valves.

Look at cam duration -

maybe look at throttle bodies

 

[BBB61]

Oh God, it wasn't serious. A deliberately provocative statement in the hope of carrying the thread along; nothing more. The whole idea of starting the thread was just an attempt to raise the 1200 section above, 'Have you got a film of your awesome exhaust, mate'

It seems to have worked too. Bod's for once thinking of something to say instead of gawping open mouthed at the wonder of it all.

It's the 1200 technical section, so why not be of assistance to those asking the questions? If you don't like what is going on in the 1200 section you don't have to post in there.

 

[tanneman]

Why replace the engine.

Use standard engine.

Increase compression slightly by skimming the heads.

Either replace the heads with HP2 sport (if compatible)
or port the existing heads, enlarge valve seats and replace with HP2 valves.

Look at cam duration -

maybe look at throttle bodies

See my post further up and read the links. Very interesting.

The problem with the HP2S engine is that it needs a refresh every 30000 mls if you want to maintain the performance and reliability of the engine. I know the engine rpm is restricted when cold but I don't know of any high mileage HP2S out there and if for the same reason rpm might be limited by the bike when that mileage is reached?

I will be a better or easier option to start with a big bore conversion of the GS engine. The problem with these engines is the small little push rods being used and when ridden like a race bike you can bend the push rod, not common but possible. Reading a response on another forum about race bike modifications ie R1200S and HP2S it might be worth upgrading the oil pump while you're at it.

If you want to be different then you're only limited by your imagination as to how to increase the GS power output. Supercharger kits are available, engine can be changed for something completely different or make the damn bike lighter, a lot.

 

[tanneman]

It's the 1200 technical section, so why not be of assistance to those asking the questions? If you don't like what is going on in the 1200 section you don't have to post in there.

Have you been reading the quality of the posts in the technical section. Better reading here than in the pub section and att doesn't visit too often

 

[BBB61]

Have you been reading the quality of the posts in the technical section. Better reading here than in the pub section and att doesn't visit too often

Att not visiting is a definite bonus If some of the others who talk as if they know the 1200's inside out but have never actually owned one or only ridden one for 20 minutes would keep away it would be a right result

 

[Wilsdorf]

+1.

This also goes some way to explaining definitively why Ducati launched the Multistrada 1200, and KTM the 990 Supermoto R. Although if someone were to say that argument doesn't make sense, here's the clincher: they were built - and continue to be built - because there is market demand for them.

The older GS would be improved with another 20bhp and more torque - I'd prefer one compared to the new bike if it had 130bhp.

I have talked about putting a faster R1200 engine in a GS many times - but in the end I bought an R1200S, which should (or will) be good for around 130bhp ish soon - it would be better with 140 (or maybe even 150bhp) and more torque It will never be as fast as a 4 cyclinder but that is not the point.

Like a lot of riders - I do not fit on a modern sports bike very well, and as you get older, bikes like the GS are simply more comfortable for the majority of riding.

Unfortunately the GS is just that little bit slower than I would like, so I have had to buy another bike to fit that gap - a faster GS could possibly be an amazing only bike - but for lots of riders there is a desire for something with the same plus points but a little more power and speed.

Whilst on paper the remap looks like it has the increase in power - it is definitely not translated into performance on the road. Whereas used Powercommander can be bought cheaper and makes a noticeable difference, to me anyway.

I'd love to try my R1200S engine in the GS - but that isn't going to happen - but some nice/subtle engine mods might find a place one day.

 

[Bendy toy]

What about 1200 S cylinder heads on a GS engine?
Will the clutch cope?

Wll a twin cam engine swap into a SC bike but keep everything else.

 

[Wilsdorf]

Nick V on R1200gs.info - has this:

09 R1200GS Adventure hybrid (Gen. 1.5 hexhead, custom metallic blue & black, R1200S engine and gearbox, Afriflo de-cat and 'pipe, K1200S rear wheel)

 

[Wapping]

It's the 1200 technical section, so why not be of assistance to those asking the questions? If you don't like what is going on in the 1200 section you don't have to post in there.

I know what section it is, that's why I posed the 'Why don't bods do 1200 engine chops?' question here. The thread has produced more responses than the average and generated some reasonably interesting replies.

I don't have a film of an awesome exhaust going, "Brrrrr, brrrrr, grrrrrrr, grrrrrr' that's why. Had I had one, I would gladly share it. The chances of me making one? Slim to none.

 

[Nick V]

Nick V on R1200gs.info - has this:

09 R1200GS Adventure hybrid (Gen. 1.5 hexhead, custom metallic blue & black, R1200S engine and gearbox, Afriflo de-cat and 'pipe, K1200S rear wheel)

That would be me! *Waves*

...Recently added to that list:
- R1200S front wheel.
- Afriflo exhaust ditched in favour of a Tornado Developments system.

 

[Wilsdorf]

That would be me! *Waves*

...Recently added to that list:
- R1200S front wheel.
- Afriflo exhaust ditched in favour of a Tornado Developments system.

So... how does it go?

 

[Nick V]

So... how does it go?

I'm in the fortunate position of being able to compare it back-to-back with the bog-standard '06 GS I also own. The results are interesting.

The R1200S engine had to be mated with a standard GSA engine ECU, since the S the engine was taken from didn't have ASC.
At the moment, midrange power is noticeably lacking compared to the '06, and there are definitely points in the rev range (idle to 2 000 RPM under load is worst) where she feels starved of fuel.
Then again, that may be the engine's knock control retarding the ignition to compensate for our inconsistent-quality fuel...

There is a noticeable increase in thrust from 6 000 RPM onward. If I need to close an overtaking gap in the face of oncoming traffic, I usually need to go down at least one gear. On the '06, simply opening the throttle does the trick - the midrange punch on her is explosive (she pulls like a train from 80 Km/h in sixth gear until she simply runs out of momentum).

Also, the GSA's electronically-imposed rev limit is about 500 RPM lower than the R1200S, which means she runs into the limiter whilst the power curve is still on the way up.

If I'm honest with myself, she needs a Power Commander or similar. But it'll have to wait until I've got the time (and extra funds).

 

[GSMarc]

delete this post please