Why won't BMW make a decent gearbox ?

[lkyphl]

I have an eight-day old GS and have done 840 kms on it.

I'll be interested to ask the service blokes what the consistency of the gearbox oil was if they change it at the first inspection next week ; I reckon it'll be like treacle with all the metal I've been chamfering off the teeth with most of the gearchanges I've made (I have done over 400,000 kms on BMWs, so hopefully I'm changing gears correctly ...)

6-5-4 and 4-5-6 using the shift assist or not are always clean shifts. On the lower three gears I prepare myself for the worst before every change.

This gearbox is the worst of the five GS's and 1 RT I've had. Don't tell me BMW can't make a better gearbox.

Phil

 

[Grahamb]

Hi Phil,

I feel your pain - I have the same experience as you with the changes in the lower gears crunchy on my 2014 WC RT (4000 klm on it and 200,000 on various BMs). I complained to the local BMW dealer about that as well as the fact that I couldn't get it into neutral more times than not. I argued with one of the service guys who said it was normal and I would have to get used to it coming from a 2005 RT with a dry clutch. I also complained about the clutch take up point being right at the end of the clutch leaver travel where it was difficult to feather the clutch travelling slowly in traffic (it was right on the tips of my fingers).

The dealer contacted BMW Australia and they suggested I take one of their demo bikes for a ride to compare. I found it much better with the clutch engagement closer to the handle bars and gear changes less clunky. So BMW authorised an inspection of the clutch which was subsequently replaced (with a 2 1/2 week wait for parts from Germany).

The replacement has definitely made an improvement. Most significantly, I can now always find neutral at the lights. Gear changes are still clunky, but every now and then there will be one or two which are almost silent, so I'm hoping a combination of technique and bedding in will improve it more.

However, the clutch lever take up is still way too far away from the bars but I'll get them to look at that later. I've only got it back recently and I'd like to enjoy it for a while before giving it to them for possibly another 2 weeks inspection and wait for parts.

One thing which really brought the shifting problem home to me was the loaner bike was a F700GS and no matter what I did, every shift was smooth and clunk free - it was such a joy to ride just because of that characteristic. If they can make a clutch/gearbox combo so well behaved on the F700, then there is no excuse why it couldn't be done for the RT/GS's as well.

Graham

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I have an eight-day old GS and have done 840 kms on it.

I'll be interested to ask the service blokes what the consistency of the gearbox oil was if they change it at the first inspection next week ; I reckon it'll be like treacle with all the metal I've been chamfering off the teeth with most of the gearchanges I've made (I have done over 400,000 kms on BMWs, so hopefully I'm changing gears correctly ...)

6-5-4 and 4-5-6 using the shift assist or not are always clean shifts. On the lower three gears I prepare myself for the worst before every change.

This gearbox is the worst of the five GS's and 1 RT I've had. Don't tell me BMW can't make a better gearbox.

Phil

Phil,

You'll soon get told that your technique is all wrong, the WC is perfect and you can't have a duff one

Prepare for the onslaught, I feel your pain

Sorry you are having to endure it, when a new bike should be a joyous experience

 

[stever1]

Why would they put the effort in when people still keep buying the bikes ?.

 

[DING-DONG]

I've been there Phil, 2 bikes, engines replaced, steering issues, clunky gearboxes and several other issues and I'm so glad I'm no longer a wc owner.

There is no consistency with the WC bikes everyone is different, the dealer told me that, it will be several years before they get this bike right.

I replaced my 2 WC lemons with a twin cam gs and in my opinion the twin cam is the best GS made.

 

[L'Escargot]

Hi Phil,I had the same problem,BMW replaced my engine because of paint deterioration and clunky gearbox,got the new engine put it,got the bike back,and gearbox just exactly as it was before !!! Changed the bike for a GSA LC,problem gone !!!
Mmmmmmmm,makes you wonder doesn't it ?

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

Does the RT /Wc suffer the same problems with the gearbox?

 

[Nick V]

Hi Phil,

I feel your pain - I have the same experience as you with the changes in the lower gears crunchy on my 2014 WC RT (4000 klm on it and 200,000 on various BMs). I complained to the local BMW dealer about that as well as the fact that I couldn't get it into neutral more times than not. I argued with one of the service guys who said it was normal and I would have to get used to it coming from a 2005 RT with a dry clutch. I also complained about the clutch take up point being right at the end of the clutch leaver travel where it was difficult to feather the clutch travelling slowly in traffic (it was right on the tips of my fingers).

The dealer contacted BMW Australia and they suggested I take one of their demo bikes for a ride to compare. I found it much better with the clutch engagement closer to the handle bars and gear changes less clunky. So BMW authorised an inspection of the clutch which was subsequently replaced (with a 2 1/2 week wait for parts from Germany).

The replacement has definitely made an improvement. Most significantly, I can now always find neutral at the lights. Gear changes are still clunky, but every now and then there will be one or two which are almost silent, so I'm hoping a combination of technique and bedding in will improve it more.

However, the clutch lever take up is still way too far away from the bars but I'll get them to look at that later. I've only got it back recently and I'd like to enjoy it for a while before giving it to them for possibly another 2 weeks inspection and wait for parts.

One thing which really brought the shifting problem home to me was the loaner bike was a F700GS and no matter what I did, every shift was smooth and clunk free - it was such a joy to ride just because of that characteristic. If they can make a clutch/gearbox combo so well behaved on the F700, then there is no excuse why it couldn't be done for the RT/GS's as well.

Graham

Graham, it's small comfort, I know... but you're not alone.
Like a lot of other people, I'm also vaguely disappointed in the shift quality of my '13 GS LC.
For being a big-capacity, torque-biased twin, it's strange that BMW seems to have tried to make it feel more like a 600 four. Half of that, they got right - the top-end power output is staggering for an adventure bike and it revs like a mad thing.
But the price you pay for that is that is has almost no flywheel. So it's nowhere near as stall-resistant as the oil-cooled bikes, bottom-end torque is inferior, and coupled to the inconsistent clutch take-up, sometimes I can get my bike cleanly off the line with just a sniff of gas, other times I need to rev and slip the clutch to avoid stalling, because the clutch has decided to grab!

I'm also not happy with the clutch 'bite' point, but my problem is the opposite of yours - my clutch bite point is too close to the grip. On the open road, I operate the clutch with two fingers, and the bite point is a couple of millimetres from where the clutch lever starts squashing my two remaining fingers.

I also sometimes struggle to find neutral, but the problem is nowhere near as bad as on my '05 K1200S. If I coast to a halt at traffic lights, I've learned through bitter experience that I'd better be in neutral by the time the bike comes to a stop - or it's either first or second! Forget trying to get this bike into neutral at idle - it's nearly impossible.
(Incidentally, that's another engine with almost no flywheel. When it's idling from cold, the combination of slightly lumpy idle and transmission lash makes it sound like it's eating itself. )

 

[Nutty]

BMW can make a decent gearbox, but there seems to be a lottery as to which bikes come with one. Which is unacceptable to say the least.

I have a 2015 S1000R, which has a buttery smooth gearbox, and every change is a delight. I also have a 2015 GSA, and while it's more agricultural compared to the R, is the smoothest gearbox I've had on all my GS's. And I've had a few.

BMW need to up their quality control at the factory, as EVERY bike should be identical, not this game of Russian roulette that they seem to be playing now.

 

[Neil W]

+1 mine is exactly the same, try this one, sit on the bike with it started and try to engage second gear from neutral, if it is as bad as mine there is no way it will go into gear

I have an eight-day old GS and have done 840 kms on it.

I'll be interested to ask the service blokes what the consistency of the gearbox oil was if they change it at the first inspection next week ; I reckon it'll be like treacle with all the metal I've been chamfering off the teeth with most of the gearchanges I've made (I have done over 400,000 kms on BMWs, so hopefully I'm changing gears correctly ...)

6-5-4 and 4-5-6 using the shift assist or not are always clean shifts. On the lower three gears I prepare myself for the worst before every change.

This gearbox is the worst of the five GS's and 1 RT I've had. Don't tell me BMW can't make a better gearbox.

Phil

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I'm not defending the appalling gearbox issues WMB are suffering on the R series at the moment, but, this not going into neutral at a standstill is quite normal on lots of bikes, I wouldn't call it a fault.

In fact I'd say that over the years I've been riding the exception to the rule had been having a bike that would slip cleanly into neutral at a standstill.

My 1190 is one of those exceptions

Andres

 

[batman1]

Both my GS-LC's have had great boxes, am I the lucky one!

 

[Engineer]

Hmmmmmmmmmm and so it continues?

I don't have any issues with mine and neither do the vast majority's so far as I can see - I have yet to ride a 'bad' one - this strange world of BMW GS gearboxes is very confusing.

I'd say my very early 2013 LC is a big step up from my twin-cam which was just the stop-gap bike between the original 1200 GS and the LC.

 

[Troppo]

My 14 RTWC can be clunky, but the QS 4-5-6 is really good. Snick, snick, snick.

I have found that if you just dip the clutch and pre-load the lever, 1-2-3 can be quite smooth.

When cold, the clutch engagement is much closer to the bars...

It becomes "normal" and does not change after the engine gets up to temp.

And, yes, my S1000R is 99% as good as my (dearly departed) K6 GSX-R 1000...

You can use the QS 1-2 on the S1000, but try that on the RT....CLUNK.

 

[mackap]

Mine is a May 2014 model with exactly the same issues, namely crunching into gears, no matter what gear change method is used, and hard to find neutral. Its plain and simple clutch drag. But the most frustrating is the alarmingly inconsistent clutch biting point. Been back to my nearest dealer (I didn't buy it from them) who say they 'adjusted the clutch' but it made no difference.

Its going back to them and I plan to use this extract from the BMW web site to help convince them that something needs doing.

"HELICAL GEARBOX.

The new generation of BMW models is fitted with a gearbox that enables both light and precise gear shifts. The cogs of the six speed gearbox, e.g. in the current flat twin models, are helical, ensuring lighter and more precise shifting and a significant reduction in running noise compared with conventional gearboxes. The compact housing fits in between the engine and the secondary drive (swing arm with integrated shaft). The entire gearbox weighs just thirteen kilograms.

The highly rigid helical gearing not only means the cogs run more smoothly due to the softer meshing, it also means the individual gears engage more gently. This precision can be clearly felt during gear shifts. In conventional motorcycles, the gear shift takes place when the cogs shift on the shafts, whereas in the helical gearing system of the BMW Motorrad gearbox, it takes the form of a constant mesh transmission with three sliding sleeves: the cogs are therefore constantly intermeshed and activated indirectly."

My experience is far from that described on bold. Still love the bike but if nothing is sorted fear for gearbox durability.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Hmmmmmmmmmm and so it continues?

I don't have any issues with mine and neither do the vast majority's so far as I can see - I have yet to ride a 'bad' one - this strange world of BMW GS gearboxes is very confusing.

I'd say my very early 2013 LC is a big step up from my twin-cam which was just the stop-gap bike between the original 1200 GS and the LC.

Hmmmmmmmmmm and so it continues? blah blah blah blah blah

I genuinley don't get where you're coming from

I had an '05 1200 and have only just sold it on. They were, rightly, slaged off for their sometimes fragile FD's. Now, I thought it was a fantastic bike and loved riding it just as you do with your WC. However, whilst the majority of bikes were ok (mine included) a significant proportion of owners across the world had serious issues with the FD. There was no getting away from that fact.

So, why, are you incapable of admiting that the WC is a great bike but, much like the hexhead and it's issues with FD's the WC also has serious issues with it's gearbox. Why are you so defensive of it or is it just sheer arogance that you are such a riding god that you can change gear better than all the people on here that have issues?

Andres

 

[ianboydsnr]

My Fazer Fz6 had an appalling box, that was much improved by doing clutchless changes from 2 up, eventually once 10k miles was on it, it was much better, maybe they will improve with age!

 

[Engineer]

Hmmmmmmmmmm and so it continues? blah blah blah blah blah

I genuinley don't get where you're coming from

I had an '05 1200 and have only just sold it on. They were, rightly, slaged off for their sometimes fragile FD's. Now, I thought it was a fantastic bike and loved riding it just as you do with your WC. However, whilst the majority of bikes were ok (mine included) a significant proportion of owners across the world had serious issues with the FD. There was no getting away from that fact.

So, why, are you incapable of admiting that the WC is a great bike but, much like the hexhead and it's issues with FD's the WC also has serious issues with it's gearbox. Why are you so defensive of it or is it just sheer arogance that you are such a riding god that you can change gear better than all the people on here that have issues?

Andres

You seem to be reading far more into my post than there actually is - I have never denied that some bikes have problems, but mine doesn't and I can adapt to its differences compared to the earlier bikes. If people who are happy with their bikes never spoke up then one would get entirely the wrong impression from forums like this.

There is nothing in my post that projects arrogance, I suspect that you just don't like others disagreeing with you - chill man

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

You seem to be reading far more into my post than there actually is - I have never denied that some bikes have problems, but mine doesn't and I can adapt to its differences compared to the earlier bikes. If people who are happy with their bikes never spoke up then one would get entirely the wrong impression from forums like this.

There is nothing in my post that projects arrogance, I suspect that you just don't like others disagreeing with you - chill man

That's somewhat disengenuous though isn't it - there is plenty of history on here of your posts telling people that the gearboxes are fine and that all people have to do is learn to blip the throttle on down changing like you do and all will be well. Very recently you have started to back track, just a little bit, that there may be a few dodgy gearboxes but you still seem unable to admit that there is a significant issue out there - there's a reason you have been named Peter Perfect on here (not started by me I hasten to add).

Andres

 

[cookie]

I'm not defending the appalling gearbox issues WMB are suffering on the R series at the moment, but, this not going into neutral at a standstill is quite normal on lots of bikes, I wouldn't call it a fault.

In fact I'd say that over the years I've been riding the exception to the rule had been having a bike that would slip cleanly into neutral at a standstill.

My 1190 is one of those exceptions

Andres

i'm pretty sure i've never owned a bike that won't go into neutral at a standstill, unless the clutch was dragging for some reason. that reason being, it's badly adjusted normally. latest BMW boxer clutches appear to drag as a matter of course, at least a fair proportion of them seem to.
it is obvious to me that the whole issue is caused by a poor design of clutch that doesn't release cleanly, and is nothing to do with the gearbox itself.

and as for this guff...

The cogs of the six speed gearbox, e.g. in the current flat twin models, are helical, ensuring lighter and more precise shifting and a significant reduction in running noise compared with conventional gearboxes.

how many bikes don't have helical cut gears then? been a long time since i've seen one (76 le mans straight cut proddy box actually).