Worth money or better buying cheap

fredaroony said:
I would not buy the Chinese copy just because it's wrong to support thieves in my mind
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Plus one, all you are doing is importing unemployment, spend your money where you earn it first and foremost.
 
Mate of mine, Bought the cheap headlight guard and the Hugger. A fraction of the cost I paid. And although I really wanted to, and I tried lots, I couldn't see any difference at all. Not in materials or fitment. It did make me wonder to be honest. I think personally its good, Puts the cats amongst the pigeons with the big boys taking the utter piss with their prices.
 
Onahi said:
Mate of mine, Bought the cheap headlight guard and the Hugger. A fraction of the cost I paid. And although I really wanted to, and I tried lots, I couldn't see any difference at all. Not in materials or fitment. It did make me wonder to be honest. I think personally its good, Puts the cats amongst the pigeons with the big boys taking the utter piss with their prices.
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On the flip side, why would non scum thieving companies design and bring products to markets if the filth of the earth steal their designs?
 
Here’s a thought…
Designing stuff is easy. Draw it up, mock it up, knock up a ‘prototype’ in your garage as part of your hobby. Ask Mark Hooton and I’m sure he’s happy to tell you that process and ask for your bike to borrow if it’s something he hasn’t made before or he doesn’t have the bike you want the part made for.
But being able to manufacture the stuff to a profitable and marketable price at scale - takes capital investment, access to physical and human resources, and expertise in operational logistics. And that’s why most of the world outsource the manufacturing of stuff to Asia/China. They’re generally better at it than the West - especially for farkles that bikers adore. And don’t think they can’t design and bodge things together in their garage just as well as those in countries who think they’re better… but why not use the designs they’re being approached with to manufacture at scale in the first place? And FWIW, lots of very high end stuff is made in Asia at exceptional quality levels. Anyone here use a Samsung, Xiaomi, LG, or Apple phone? Hmmm… thought so.
 
Spareparts said:
Here’s a thought…
Designing stuff is easy. Draw it up, mock it up, knock up a ‘prototype’ in your garage as part of your hobby. Ask Mark Hooton and I’m sure he’s happy to tell you that process and ask for your bike to borrow if it’s something he hasn’t made before or he doesn’t have the bike you want the part made for.
But being able to manufacture the stuff to a profitable and marketable price at scale - takes capital investment, access to physical and human resources, and expertise in operational logistics. And that’s why most of the world outsource the manufacturing of stuff to Asia/China. They’re generally better at it than the West - especially for farkles that bikers adore. And don’t think they can’t design and bodge things together in their garage just as well as those in countries who think they’re better… but why not use the designs they’re being approached with to manufacture at scale in the first place? And FWIW, lots of very high end stuff is made in Asia at exceptional quality levels. Anyone here use a Samsung, Xiaomi, LG, or Apple phone? Hmmm… thought so.
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Morals...integrity? I am limiting products from China as much as I can
 
fredaroony said:
Morals...integrity? I am limiting products from China as much as I can
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This isn’t an issue of morals or integrity. Just think - the Italians and West have been copying noodles as spaghetti for quite a few millenia ;-)
There are very few enforceable rights to ‘design’ unless it is inextricably linked to a singularly unique brand/specific name/etc that is globally known as distinct. Brand and International IP law covers this. Just contact the IPO for more info - the rules are quite well explained there. The business relationship between the West and Asia has been a successful symbiotic one especially the last 30-40 years since Asia’s investment in manufacturing has been to the West’s benefit and enabling basis for their prosperity. If BMW, Triumph, Wunderlich, Touratech, and thousands of other Western brands think they can do it better - then they should. But they don’t. And if you still think it is an issue of morals/integrity, I would hardly consider the morals or integrity of the West as superior given what goes on in Europe (Bunga Bunga), Latin America (Bolsonaro), or North America (Trump)… As they say, don’t throw stones in glass houses.
 
Spareparts said:
This isn’t an issue of morals or integrity. Just think - the Italians and West have been copying noodles as spaghetti for quite a few millenia ;-)
There are very few enforceable rights to ‘design’ unless it is inextricably linked to a singularly unique brand/specific name/etc that is globally known as distinct. Brand and International IP law covers this. Just contact the IPO for more info - the rules are quite well explained there. The business relationship between the West and Asia has been a successful symbiotic one especially the last 30-40 years since Asia’s investment in manufacturing has been to the West’s benefit and enabling basis for their prosperity. If BMW, Triumph, Wunderlich, Touratech, and thousands of other Western brands think they can do it better - then they should. But they don’t. And if you still think it is an issue of morals/integrity, I would hardly consider the morals or integrity of the West as superior given what goes on in Europe (Bunga Bunga), Latin America (Bolsonaro), or North America (Trump)… As they say, don’t throw stones in glass houses.
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Well it's my 2 cents on the matter and I've made my choice.
 
Back on topic, I think it depends what component it is and consider the part itself on merits of quality/price vs risk of failure. A fender extender is hardly worth paying a price premium for - regardless of where it is made. But a brake master cylinder probably is - again, regardless of where it is made, but take the component’s quality on its own merits. YMMV.
 
Spareparts said:
This isn’t an issue of morals or integrity. Just think - the Italians and West have been copying noodles as spaghetti for quite a few millenia ;-)
There are very few enforceable rights to ‘design’ unless it is inextricably linked to a singularly unique brand/specific name/etc that is globally known as distinct. Brand and International IP law covers this. Just contact the IPO for more info - the rules are quite well explained there. The business relationship between the West and Asia has been a successful symbiotic one especially the last 30-40 years since Asia’s investment in manufacturing has been to the West’s benefit and enabling basis for their prosperity. If BMW, Triumph, Wunderlich, Touratech, and thousands of other Western brands think they can do it better - then they should. But they don’t. And if you still think it is an issue of morals/integrity, I would hardly consider the morals or integrity of the West as superior given what goes on in Europe (Bunga Bunga), Latin America (Bolsonaro), or North America (Trump)… As they say, don’t throw stones in glass houses.
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Not morals or integrity but control. Far from a symbiotic relationship, China has made everything cheaper, initially often at a massive loss, in order to gain control, to the point where virtually nothing can be manufactured without Chinese influence. There are huge factories in towns and cities that make a majority of the world’s manufactured goods (trouser city, tie city, shirt city, for example in the clothing industry).
There’s nothing inherently good or bad about China any more than any other country, but allowing one country such a total monopoly on production of so much of what everyone depends upon is asking for trouble.

As someone else said, making something for a bike, designing it wherever then sourcing and making it as cheaply as possible and selling at an acceptable price is maybe more symbiotic but it’s no going to happen because those same western companies know they can get away with charging £170 for a piece of moulded plastic and a couple of bolts that a Chinese factory can replicate for £30. This is, if you like, the result of the US previously having so much control and pricing goods based on what the market will bear in order to pay shareholders a big fat dividend and make Warren Buffett richer, rather than cost price plus a sensible profit.
Ironically, in areas like musical instruments, this has been going on for 50 years, to the point where the Far Eastern knock off is actually better made with better QC than the original. US companies got what they deserved for over-charging for a sub-standard product.

So, on balance, if the Chinese knock-off works, just buy it. Buying a grossly over-priced Mudsling won’t make the world a better place.
 
Matty589 said:
Not morals or integrity but control. Far from a symbiotic relationship, China has made everything cheaper, initially often at a massive loss, in order to gain control, to the point where virtually nothing can be manufactured without Chinese influence. There are huge factories in towns and cities that make a majority of the world’s manufactured goods (trouser city, tie city, shirt city, for example in the clothing industry).
There’s nothing inherently good or bad about China any more than any other country, but allowing one country such a total monopoly on production of so much of what everyone depends upon is asking for trouble.

As someone else said, making something for a bike, designing it wherever then sourcing and making it as cheaply as possible and selling at an acceptable price is maybe more symbiotic but it’s no going to happen because those same western companies know they can get away with charging £170 for a piece of moulded plastic and a couple of bolts that a Chinese factory can replicate for £30. This is, if you like, the result of the US previously having so much control and pricing goods based on what the market will bear in order to pay shareholders a big fat dividend and make Warren Buffett richer, rather than cost price plus a sensible profit.
Ironically, in areas like musical instruments, this has been going on for 50 years, to the point where the Far Eastern knock off is actually better made with better QC than the original. US companies got what they deserved for over-charging for a sub-standard product.

So, on balance, if the Chinese knock-off works, just buy it. Buying a grossly over-priced Mudsling won’t make the world a better place.
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I believe the shareholders of so many companies are happy that they are able to utilise the expertise and capabilities of China for their own profit. It sounds like a perfectly symbiotic relationship! China were willing and able to do things through domestic policy that the US/European governments were not able to do especially through the 70s and 80s; and the US/EU have leveraged that to their own benefit to this day. The fact that China remains a mostly closed economy has been helpful to the US/EU who rarely look beyond their next election and hope that China will be merciful in exercising domestic/foreign policy. The latest talk on what China may do with Taiwan, for example, is scaremongering markets and the Nasdaq, but also hopefully prevent China from doing through pre-declaration. It's all real politik...
 
Trouble is, one day, Ping will say “Now!” and nothing electronic will work until we pay…
 
Onahi said:
Thanks, maybe next time you don't need to us all about your Chinese sanctions ? And let others chose ? Just a thought ?
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This is a discussion is about paying for cheap stolen design crap over so the answer to your question is ...no.
 
Onahi said:
Why would you think that your personal choice to sanction Chinese products is of interest to this thread ?

Asking for a mate:thumb
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Why would you think anyone give two sh!ts about your opinion? Just like your previous rants on greasing the drive shaft splines....
 
fredaroony said:
Why would you think anyone give two sh!ts about your opinion? Just like your previous rants on greasing the drive shaft splines....
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Possibly not. However discussions about the GS / A drive shaft splines are relevant. Right or wrong. You personal choice to sanction Chinese products is irrelevant. If you must reply, try to be an adult and not sanction poor taste in words.
Silly old sausage!
 
Onahi said:
Possibly not. However discussions about the GS / A drive shaft splines are relevant. Right or wrong. You personal choice to sanction Chinese products is irrelevant. If you must reply, try to be an adult and not sanction poor taste in words.
Silly old sausage!
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Since you're only trying to troll me, I will reply how I feel like. Many discussions on forums are people's comments about their personal choices...keep up.

Have a nice night, I'm done with you
 
I bought the cheap Chinese hugger. The bolts did indeed get loose a couple of times, I check the bolts once a week now, Id say ill probably buy the more expensive one eventually.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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