X Country clutch drag

[colint]

Just fitted a new clutch to my X Country and whatever adjustment I try the clutch still drags badly can't select neutral at all with the engine running the clutch operation in all other aspects appears to be fine when on the move, the central release operating serrated shaft has a lot of sideways movement in the bearing but i'm told by the dealer that this is normal.
Any ideas?

 

[FERRET]

When i changed the clutch on my x challenge i changed the clutch cable as well as there wasnt enough adjustment left (assumed the cable had stretched) was fine once i did this, maybe the same for you?

I also replaced the clutch springs with heavy duty replacements!

 

[moly]

When i changed the clutch on my x challenge i changed the clutch cable as well as there wasnt enough adjustment left (assumed the cable had stretched) was fine once i did this, maybe the same for you?

I also replaced the clutch springs with heavy duty replacements!

what about oil ????

 

[rossi]

Sideways play of the pull rod in the bearing is normal. What would concern me is if there was any lateral play of the pull rod inside the hole on the clutch cover. If the hole in the clutch cover wears the teeth on the pull rod don't engage fully with the teeth on the vertical clutch actuation shaft causing teeth to fail.

Are you sure you fitted the washers on the pull rod behind the bearing correctly? The inside one is pretty obvious as the pull rod is effectively countersunk into it. The outer washer next to the bearing is slightly conical rather than a flat washer. It should be fitted so that the inside diameter is in contact with the inside of the clutch bearing.

I'm not sure I would be fitting HD springs though. Over on F650.com there have been a few failures of the teeth on the pull rod / actuation shaft which were linked to HD clutch springs.

 

[Losttheplot]

Sideways play of the pull rod in the bearing is normal. What would concern me is if there was any lateral play of the pull rod inside the hole on the clutch cover. If the hole in the clutch cover wears the teeth on the pull rod don't engage fully with the teeth on the vertical clutch actuation shaft causing teeth to fail.

Yup. I found this out the expensive way .

You could try removing the cable anchor on top of the clutch casing, and moving it round 1 tooth on the sline before replacing anything else colin.

i would check cable condition as well while your at it.

HTH

Nathan

 

[Nobu]

Hi...
i agree to Losttheplot, see that thread in this forum and also my post
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2856184#post2856184
change of the clutchcover and related parts will solve the problems.
Many X-drivers in Germany did that meanwhile.
Greetings from Bavaria
Nobu

 

[colint]

Thanks guys
New clutch cable fitted
Soaked the plates in oil before fitting and the oil and filter was changed
No sideways play in the pull rod clutch casing fit
Moved the actuation lever round a tooth no difference

However when I dissassembled the clutch in a better light there are some wear marks on both the driving dog and clutch basket although these are visible but they are not "stepped" to the touch I have smoothed these out with emery paper but before I fit it back together again just a couple more points.
The clutch basket has sideways movement in it but no "in and out" movement, as I have not had this out could it be the bearing on this that is the problem.
On the reprom for my 800GS it states that the metal plates go in a specific side down but on the 650X reprom no mention of this but i did assemble them with the "sharp edge" facing inwards as per 800 reprom.

If all else fails I live near the canal!!!

 

[colint]

Thanks guys
New clutch cable fitted
Soaked the plates in oil before fitting and the oil and filter was changed
No sideways play in the pull rod clutch casing fit
Moved the actuation lever round a tooth no difference

However when I dissassembled the clutch in a better light there are some wear marks on both the driving dog and clutch basket although these are visible but they are not "stepped" to the touch I have smoothed these out with emery paper but before I fit it back together again just a couple more points.
The clutch basket has sideways movement in it but no "in and out" movement, as I have not had this out could it be the bearing on this that is the problem.
On the reprom for my 800GS it states that the metal plates go in a specific side down but on the 650X reprom no mention of this but i did assemble them with the "sharp edge" facing inwards as per 800 reprom.

If all else fails I live near the canal!!!

Still not fixed!!
I am coming to the conclusion I must be a numpty but I am new to this type of clutch all my previous experience is on boxers with a single dry plate clutch.
Just a couple more questions from the numpty:-
The clutch basket has movement on the reprom it shows the basket is run on needle roller bearings if there is some movement on this could this be the problem?
The spring washer that fits between the pull rod end washer and bearing should the high domed part be on the bearing side or the pull rod washer side? Tried it both ways but seems to be no difference.
Just to recap on the job so far, the clutch friction plates themselves are new and all marked all but one with the number 09 and one with the number 0, should these be assembled in a specific order? at the moment I have the plate with the number 0 on on the outside the metal plates are all new. There are no wear marks and or ridges on either the clutch basket or the clutch centre.

I have measured the play in the casing>pull rod fit there is less than 0.01mm play, the actuating arm has no measurable play the friction plates, and metal plates are new
I measured the travel of the alloy actuating arm on the outside of the casing,with the clutch cover off and then with the cover assembled the travel is the same, the clutch cable is new and I cannot adjust the cable tight enough to make the clutch slip!

The only option I have left is to remove the clutch basket and check the bearing but to do this I need a tool to hold the clutch centre, anyone got a spare metal clutch plate I can weld a rod to? I threw mine away

 

[Losttheplot]

Colin,


when i had all the clutch issues on my XC, i did find that the centre shaft in the middle of the clutch (the one with the teeth machine on the end) does flop about like a floppy thing, apparently this is normal. I didn't change this bearing, and everything has been fine for the past thousand miles or so.

I also had a few clutch drag issues when i reassembled it all the last time i put it together.

i tried a few things with mine, including putting some preload on the clutch- this in volved rotating the clutch actuator shaft in the direction of cable pull to remove any slack, then removing the alluminuim arm that the cable lots into, and putting thi back one tooth, then reassembling. You'll need to trun this as you tap it on so that it clears the casing.

How badly is it dragging? just to the point you can't find neutral? or to the point if started in gear with the clutch lever pulled in, it either stalls and starts moving the bike?

If it's not dragging excessively. it might just be that the plates need the newness rubbing off them, and a little time to settle in.

hth

Nathan

 

[Losttheplot]

You have wound all the slack out of the cable as well at the lever haven't you?

I know this is possibly a daft question, but thought i'd ask....

 

[colint]

Colin,


when i had all the clutch issues on my XC, i did find that the centre shaft in the middle of the clutch (the one with the teeth machine on the end) does flop about like a floppy thing, apparently this is normal. I didn't change this bearing, and everything has been fine for the past thousand miles or so.

I also had a few clutch drag issues when i reassembled it all the last time i put it together.

i tried a few things with mine, including putting some preload on the clutch- this in volved rotating the clutch actuator shaft in the direction of cable pull to remove any slack, then removing the alluminuim arm that the cable lots into, and putting thi back one tooth, then reassembling. You'll need to trun this as you tap it on so that it clears the casing.

How badly is it dragging? just to the point you can't find neutral? or to the point if started in gear with the clutch lever pulled in, it either stalls and starts moving the bike?

If it's not dragging excessively. it might just be that the plates need the newness rubbing off them, and a little time to settle in.

hth

Nathan

Hi Nathan
The clutch basket has movement which is concerning me is that normal?
I have tried moving the outside alloy actuating arm round one spline so it has to be moved to clear the casing still no difference.
I have adjusted the cable so you can hear the pull rod bottom out on the casing I would assume that this is the maximum movement.
If started out of gear it doesn't stall when engaging first but you have to put the front brake on to stop it moving forwards.
On the move the clutch works OK but then again with the correct engine speed clutchless changes are possible, however when coming to a halt you have to be in the correct gear as it doesn't want to select any other gear with the engine running when at a standstill
It is impossible to select neutral with the engine running even when hot.
The reason I changed the clutch originally is that it had no movement it was either out or in and impossible to "feather" when I dissassembled the clutch the metal plates were blued and the friction plates black! I have just bought the bike and don't know the history but it has been used off road and commuted.

 

[Losttheplot]

I don't think the clutch basket should have movement, other than in a rotary direction.

I can't get to my reprom at present, but i'll try and have a look later.

Sounds like your clutch basket may be loose on the shaft, or you may have a bearing on it's way out.

 

[colint]

I don't think the clutch basket should have movement, other than in a rotary direction.

I can't get to my reprom at present, but i'll try and have a look later.

Sounds like your clutch basket may be loose on the shaft, or you may have a bearing on it's way out.

Yep That's what I was thinking, I have tried to undo the nut in the centre but I will have to fabricate something to hold the centre hence the request for on old metal plate.

 

[viv]

To see if it is the clutch plates or something else that is dragging you can just take the plates out, put the clutch cover back on and fire up the bike. If it drags when you put it in to gear you know it isn't the plates.

I had a similar problem and even bought the bearings before I did the test above. In my case it was the plates.

Viv

PS you are welcome to the bearings I bought if you think it is that.

 

[viv]

Still not fixed!!

Just to recap on the job so far, the clutch friction plates themselves are new

The clutch plates kit from BMW has both the plain metal plates and the ones with friction material on. Is that the set that you have fitted?

When I had a similar problem I measured the plate thickness but didn't find anything definitive. What I did see though was a slight warping of the plain plates plus some bluing. So I replaced them and all was ok.

Viv

 

[Timolgra]

The clutch plates kit from BMW has both the plain metal plates and the ones with friction material on. Is that the set that you have fitted?

When I had a similar problem I measured the plate thickness but didn't find anything definitive. What I did see though was a slight warping of the plain plates plus some bluing. So I replaced them and all was ok.

Viv

Yes, should fit both new in this case

 

[colint]

Yes, should fit both new in this case

Yes I fitted the BMW set both friction and metal plates. I spoke to a BMW mechanic he thinks it is the release bearing that is the problem and that if the bearing is not worn take it out and re fit it with a shim washer underneath. But he also said the clutch basket should not have any movement.
But for the moment it will take a back seat whilst I replace the front wheel bearings on the F800GS as a precaution before this summers long trips, (done the rears a couple of weeks ago). I will report back when (or if !!)I fix it.

 

[colint]

Yes I fitted the BMW set both friction and metal plates. I spoke to a BMW mechanic he thinks it is the release bearing that is the problem and that if the bearing is not worn take it out and re fit it with a shim washer underneath. But he also said the clutch basket should not have any movement.
But for the moment it will take a back seat whilst I replace the front wheel bearings on the F800GS as a precaution before this summers long trips, (done the rears a couple of weeks ago). I will report back when (or if !!)I fix it.

Now fixed centre punch round the bottom of the bearing recess (evidently a BMW fix according to dealer mechanic)fitted a new release bearing and fit a new spring washer that fits between the pull rod and the release bearing.
All OK now.