Zero Zero

[Dr Bones]

I've only had the r1100gs for two weeks now and I've got to the stage of balancing the throttle bodies. (I've just set all the valve clearances, changed the air filter etc). The bike was surging quite badly before all this (I've not had a chance to ride it post servicing yet though). So after reading about the zero zero procedure it seemed a logical solution. However it also says after you have done it, it will be difficult to return the bike to the factory settings. To be honest I'm pretty sure someone has fiddled with the throttle bodies settings (no paint on throttle cable adjusters) so the factory setup may well be messed up anyway, so what have I got to lose by going down the zero zero route ? My thoughts are, at least it will get me to some sort of baseline I can judge things from.

thoughts anyone ?

 

[fatnfast]

I would be tempted to connect it up to your vac gauge first and go for a normal balance from there. It may not be far out and only need a tweak? Do a search on here, there is plenty of good info or look here on page 21 (just use your own prefered type of balance gauge):

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11Manual/Oilhead_Maintenance_2-25-02.pdf

 

[uncle dick]

If you can't set it up using vac gauges then zero-zero does work but make sure you understand fully what you are trying to achieve. A lot of people slag it off without reading properly. TPS setting and mixture setting make a BIG difference on a 1100 and if you're still on the one piece cable then think about changing asap.

 

[Stewart H]

I would not blunder into doing a zero zero, run through everything else including setting the TPS voltage first.

 

[roddy]

I would not blunder into doing a zero zero, run through everything else including setting the TPS voltage first.

+1 take the bike for a scoot to see what effect the changes you've done so far have then move on to the Zero Zero procedure

 

[motobiker]

The ghost of Lentini rises again.

No BMW dealership.. nor any Independent I've ever spoken to would use this method to set a bike up.

My first GS surged quite badly from new back in 97. I took it back to the dealership and they fixed it in about an hour. I mentioned the Lentini method which i had printed off. The fella looked at it laughed and said something like 'Yanks.. you gotta love them'

If you're having problems then don't bother with the lentine twitchery.. take it to a specialist who knows what they're doing. there's a great fella here in nottingham Who I'm sure could do it for you very quickly. Your bike will only need setting up once correctly and it'll never surge again. Thereafter simply follow the normal service schedule.

Surging was a big problem in the early 90s... the lentini 'fix' was aimed more at Americans who had no access to a dealership due to distance or were too tight to pay and love making something simple as complicated as possible. You only hear about it now because some owners fiddle where they shouldn't and make a bad situation worse.

now.. best run out and buy popcorn. i have a feeling i'll need it.

 

[Steptoe]

Don't do. I've never needed to in 23 years.
But i've spent plenty of time sorting bikes out for those that have tried it.

If you have a problem all you'll be doing is papering it over, it'll stilll be there when you've finished.

 

[Dr Bones]

Thanks for the advice. I have the equipment to balance the TB's. I've balanced carbs before so I don't have any problem having a go at this.

If I need to take it somewhere in the East Midlands can anyone suggest someone?

I've found these people

http://www.boxerman.co.uk/

http://www.ifixyourbike.com/mobile-motorbike-services-about-us.php

anyone any experience of either ?

 

[davegs]

Thanks for the advice. I have the equipment to balance the TB's. I've balanced carbs before so I don't have any problem having a go at this.

If I need to take it somewhere in the East Midlands can anyone suggest someone?

I've found these people

http://www.boxerman.co.uk/

http://www.ifixyourbike.com/mobile-motorbike-services-about-us.php

anyone any experience of either ?

Boxer man has always had good reports, or have a nice poodle down to sarf west London and see Steppers No1 man . (I assume the cheque will be in the post Neil?)

 

[Dr Bones]

OK,

I had a go at balancing the TBs tonight. I used my trusty oil manometer (which has never failed me for balancing the carbs on my other bike). The first issue I had was that the right hand brass air screw was seized in the throttle body. Half an hour of gentle heating with a pencil torch and penetrating oil got it out, a quick clean in paint thinners, scrub with a brass brush and a new 'O' ring and all was well again. With the left brass screw 1.5 turns out and the right 1 turn out, I managed to get the balance to within a few CM on the manometer. A small adjustment of the right throttle screw got it to about 1 CM difference. I couldn't get it any better than that. The manometer seemed very slow to react to the changes and perhaps it doesn't read finely enough for this job ? I want to get the CO meter on it tomorrow to see what is happening with the fueling (it has a beige catcode plug and a CO pot). I took the bike out after the changes, it's better, vibrates less, but it still surges quite badly between 3 and 4K at lower speeds (20-40mph). Higher up the rev range it seems OK.

One more go at this and I'm going to call the professionals, so I can see how it should be running.

 

[motobiker]

Thanks for the advice. I have the equipment to balance the TB's. I've balanced carbs before so I don't have any problem having a go at this.

If I need to take it somewhere in the East Midlands can anyone suggest someone?

I've found these people

http://www.boxerman.co.uk/

http://www.ifixyourbike.com/mobile-motorbike-services-about-us.php

anyone any experience of either ?

Bozerman was, when I last spoke to him a self-confessed luddite air-head meister with little time for oilheads beyond the most basic of servicing. I got the distinct impression that fuel injection and so on isn't his thing at all. This was 5 years ago and isn't a deliberate attempt to besmirch him. you can always ask.

I use Jim (ok - so i've got lazy in recent years).. the fact he will come pick up the bike and then bring it back is VERY handy.. Though.. i guess that won't be necessary in your case.. he'll do the job in his Van either outside your house.. or place of work. Whichever is convenient to you.

Just as a comparison. Pidcocks quotes £1015 for a new clutch all-in. Jim did the job for a smidge over £400 including the full kit.

 

[motobiker]

double post... sorry about that

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

OK,

I had a go at balancing the TBs tonight. I used my trusty oil manometer (which has never failed me for balancing the carbs on my other bike). The first issue I had was that the right hand brass air screw was seized in the throttle body. Half an hour of gentle heating with a pencil torch and penetrating oil got it out, a quick clean in paint thinners, scrub with a brass brush and a new 'O' ring and all was well again. With the left brass screw 1.5 turns out and the right 1 turn out, I managed to get the balance to within a few CM on the manometer. A small adjustment of the right throttle screw got it to about 1 CM difference. I couldn't get it any better than that. The manometer seemed very slow to react to the changes and perhaps it doesn't read finely enough for this job ? I want to get the CO meter on it tomorrow to see what is happening with the fueling (it has a beige catcode plug and a CO pot). I took the bike out after the changes, it's better, vibrates less, but it still surges quite badly between 3 and 4K at lower speeds (20-40mph). Higher up the rev range it seems OK.

One more go at this and I'm going to call the professionals, so I can see how it should be running.

you should be able to get it exactly level - 1 cm is quite a difference.

 

[uncle dick]

If you've got a co meter, try to adjust the TPS so that the co stays consistent as you slowly increase the revs. I've found mine doesn't really like much below 2.5%. I'll probably get the TB's re-bushed this winter as she's coming up to 100K and they're getting pretty 'clicky' - this will help low speed running as well.