Cylinder Head Guard Bolts

Bart1664 · May 23, 2020

My wife has a 2010 GSA. The cylinder head guards were ' a bit scratched' I suspect from it being dropped once or twice in its life.
Anyhow, I took them off without issue and painted them according to me instructions!
When it came to putting them back however two of the three bolts did not bite and as the picture shows the top section of the internal thread appears to have come away. There is thread left further in.
Can I just get longer bolts?
Does it need re-tapping?
Something else?
I was very careful not to cross thread myself so can I blame a previous owner?
The first picture shows how the thread was attached to the bolt when I withdrew it and the second picture shows what's left inside.

Any reasonable solutions?

Thanks

Mistacat · May 23, 2020

I would prefer to do the job properly and helicoil them.
From memory I think they are M6 x 1mm pitch.
It looks as if they have been over tightened in the past and pulled the threads.

toy40 · May 23, 2020

I’d one the same just done a quick fix with Plummer tape hasn’t moved since.

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NicD · May 23, 2020

Helicoil. Easy job. Has happened to a few of mine too. Refit with antiseize to prevent corrosion

Bart1664 · May 23, 2020

Thanks for the advice.

I've looked at the 'Helicoil' kits and I think I'll leave the drilling and tapping to our bike fixer. Looks a bit beyond my pay grade!

autogs · May 23, 2020

toy40 said:
I’d one the same just done a quick fix with Plummer tape hasn’t moved since.

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plummers tape? oh dear lord why do people not repair stuff properly ffs,a helicoil is a quick and proper fix that will last.

toy40 · May 23, 2020

autogs said:
plummers tape? oh dear lord why do people not repair stuff properly ffs,a helicoil is a quick and proper fix that will last.

Well it wasn’t structural just holding the cover on, it’s not moved so if it ain’t re-broke don’t fix it lol. At the time I had not heli coils so temporary fix but until this tread came up I’d forget about it. It’s still tight.

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UturnTony · May 24, 2020

Looks like there's still good thread in there so me, before i turned to Helicoiling would try longer bolts to pick up on that thread.

Bart1664 · May 24, 2020

UturnTony said:
Looks like there's still good thread in there so me, before i turned to Helicoiling would try longer bolts to pick up on that thread.

Thanks for that.
Yes, I can see there is at least half (possibly) three quarters of the original thread left so was going to see if I could get longer bolts - at least for now. Do you know if they are M6 as Mistacat suggested.

UturnTony · May 24, 2020

Bart1664 said:
Thanks for that.
Yes, I can see there is at least half (possibly) three quarters of the original thread left so was going to see if I could get longer bolts - at least for now. Do you know if they are M6 as Mistacat suggested.

If he says so it's likely they are 6mm.

Something i have done before now when faced with a similar situation is make studs out of bolts. Cut the heads off and either cut a slot
in the cut end and use a screwdriver or use the two nuts locked together dodge to screw it into the remaining thread, locking it firmly
against the bottom of the hole thus ensuring it's grabbed all the available thread. Once in, use nuts to secure the item. This means you
will not be disturbing the thread again and risking a repeat performance. Using anti seize on the bolt threads and nut is a good idea.
Obviously you need to tailor the length of the stud to suit your needs. Remember, you don't need to hammer the nuts up solid,
just nipped up firmly will do

Just a suggestion.

Bart1664 · May 24, 2020

UturnTony said:
If he says so it's likely they are 6mm.

Something i have done before now when faced with a similar situation is make studs out of bolts. Cut the heads off and either cut a slot
in the cut end and use a screwdriver or use the two nuts locked together dodge to screw it into the remaining thread, locking it firmly
against the bottom of the hole thus ensuring it's grabbed all the available thread. Once in, use nuts to secure the item. This means you
will not be disturbing the thread again and risking a repeat performance. Using anti seize on the bolt threads and nut is a good idea.
Obviously you need to tailor the length of the stud to suit your needs. Remember, you don't need to hammer the nuts up solid,
just nipped up firmly will do

Just a suggestion.

Now I know why I pay to come here :beerjug:

Another excellent idea.

Cheers

NicD · May 24, 2020

Why not just helicoil it?! Takes 10 mins and does a proper job?!

UturnTony · May 24, 2020

NicD said:
Why not just helicoil it?! Takes 10 mins and does a proper job?!

You are assuming he either has the tools, helicoil kit (or wishes to buy them/it) and necessary skills to accomplish the operation which, i'm guessing he hasn't.
Other than that, you may be assuming he knows of someone that has all the necessary skills and tools who may be a friend, in which case he needs to get
him/her to the job by taking the bike to them or getting them to the bike. Alternatively, he knows someone that does it professionally in which case, are they
open, How much would they charge? Plus, he would need to get the bike to their premises wherever they may be.

Taking the above into account i am trying to offer him (effective) solutions he can carry out with simple tools and little skill or knowledge in his own garage.

Edit;

Oh yes, i forgot to add. 10 minutes to assemble the gear, accurately drill, tap and Helicoil 3 holes, holes that are not in the best locations for such operations?

I really don't think so

roamer · May 24, 2020

Looking at the remaining thread i would go with a longer bolt as mentioned,
The stud idea has worked for me a few times, might be fiddly wit this situation as the cover slides over,
It may be worth going on real oem and find a 6 mm fastener it will be correct pitch slightly longer as it still holds + 5 mm should avoid cutting,

UturnTony · May 24, 2020

roamer said:
Looking at the remaining thread i would go with a longer bolt as mentioned,
The stud idea has worked for me a few times, might be fiddly wit this situation as the cover slides over,
It may be worth going on real oem and find a 6 mm fastener it will be correct pitch slightly longer as it still holds + 5 mm should avoid cutting,

The possible difficulty of fitting the cover over the studs did cross my mind but, then i thought there may be enough flex available
for it to work as the studs would be quite short. Anyway, the OP is in the best position to judge whether it'd be a goer or not :thumb2

Bart1664 · May 24, 2020

Hahahahahaha.....all advice is welcomed

But yes Tony I see the problem with converting to studs as I was looking at the bike this morning after your suggestion.
I don't have the helicoil kit. Yes I could buy it and yes I could attempt it but whilst I'm a competent DIYer in many things drilling my wife's bike will not be one of them :redlight

.
Our bikes are both going in for service and a few other bits next month so it'll be easier for the 'professional' to tackle that issue as well, whether that's longer bolts or helicoil solution.
However, the current bolts are 20mm long so would these https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-cap-head-socket-screws-a2-stainless-steel-m6-x-25mm-50-pack/8655t at 25mm in screwfix be suitable?

UturnTony · May 24, 2020

Bart1664 said:
Hahahahahaha.....all advice is welcomed
But yes Tony I see the problem with converting to studs as I was looking at the bike this morning after your suggestion.
I don't have the helicoil kit. Yes I could buy it and yes I could attempt it but whilst I'm a competent DIYer in many things drilling my wife's bike will not be one of them .
Our bikes are both going in for service and a few other bits next month so it'll be easier for the 'professional' to tackle that issue as well, whether that's longer bolts or helicoil solution.
However, the current bolts are 20mm long so would these https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-cap-head-socket-screws-a2-stainless-steel-m6-x-25mm-50-pack/8655t at 25mm in screwfix be suitable?

They'd do nicely :thumb2

Kenny Rodkiss · May 24, 2020

The origional bolts should be 25mm. The front engine cover bolts are 30mm long if you want to keep to original torx bolts look.

Bart1664 · May 24, 2020

Kenny Rodkiss said:
The origional bolts should be 25mm. The front engine cover bolts are 30mm long if you want to keep to original torx bolts look.

Ah....I think I may have misled you Kenny. When I said 20mm I was only referring to the threaded part of the bolt so by adding another 5mm should pick up plenty of internal thread that is left. However, all my original bolts are 25mm end to end none of them are any longer so I would need 30mm (total length) M6's

Screwfix only seem to go up to 25mm so I'm guessing these https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Bolts-Screws-Metric/Torx-Button-Screw-M6x30-A2-Stainless.html

Kenny Rodkiss · May 25, 2020

That's what I was meaning. The front engine cover bolts are 5mm longer than the headgaurd bolts.

Isa screw with washer

M6X30-U0-8.8

07129905537

Cylinder Head Guard Bolts

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