shinobi
Registered user
anyone tried the new 1200gsa 08 with the low 1st gear? what did you think ive already been told by one person that he would go for it,(was hoping he said it was crap) now i have to decide if i want it!
low 1st gear
- Thread starter shinobi
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....only you know the answer to that.
What will you do if 10 people say don't and ten say, do?
I say, do.
There you go, that's two - nil*
*I don't really care what you do, so you might like to exclude my vote and even, possibly,the mysterious other person's. Was he the salesman by any chance? It's your bike, make your own mind up. Do you get help with your underpants?
LiquidLAN
Registered user
nice standard response there wapping...
he's kind of right though, the real pig of the problem though is finding a demo with it fitted... as far as I have been able to tell, all of the initial demos where fitted with standard gearing "as they had to think about resaleability of the demos".
I'd have said go for it, but I wonder it that the dealers suggesting not???
best bet, find out where you're mate formed his opinion, if it was on a test ride, go find that dealer...
he's kind of right though, the real pig of the problem though is finding a demo with it fitted... as far as I have been able to tell, all of the initial demos where fitted with standard gearing "as they had to think about resaleability of the demos".
I'd have said go for it, but I wonder it that the dealers suggesting not???
best bet, find out where you're mate formed his opinion, if it was on a test ride, go find that dealer...
sarthek
Guest
I guess that the bulk of these bikes will spend the bulk of their time on paved where the lowered first gear is less of an issue, hence it being left off of the demo bikes. Even if most people do get their GSAs muddy I can't see many dealerships encouraging people to take them off-road on a test ride.
Does the lowered first gear provide any benefits for road riding? I can see that it might perhaps be handy in slow-moving, heavy traffic.
Does the lowered first gear provide any benefits for road riding? I can see that it might perhaps be handy in slow-moving, heavy traffic.
shinobi
Registered user
thx wapping for the useless response, cant get a go on one with the lowered gear, and it was a friend that said get it, but i dont think he had panniers loaded or pillion which is what im thinking about, ta to the others
I went for it, but admit I am taking a punt. I could not find a dealer with the Enduro 'box on a demo. EvenBMUU GB tried but could not locate one, in fact the only ones that did exist had been sent to the Off Road School in Wales.
My decision to take a punt was based on the experience of taking my '06 1200GS round Morocco on a Moto-Morocco trip
. There were distinct occasions when the existing first gear ratio felt far too high, and again from riding through South Eats London traffic, it is clearly too high. If it ends up too low for "normal" use, then I can always stay in second gear rather than changing down, I do not have a problem with that.
Given the choice between having a lower gear for when I really want it or constantly fanning the clutch I went with the lower gear.
What I did manage to get out of BMUU was the exact ratios...
"The standard gear box is;
1st 2.375 38:16
2nd 1.696 39:23
3rd 1.296 35:27
4th 1.065 33:31
5th 0.939 31:33
6th 0.848 28:33
The only difference with the Enduro box is the 1st gear, the 6th gear is the same as the standard gear box.
1st 2.600 39:15"
Primary ratio is 1.737:1
Final Drive is 2.91:1
It is not a huge difference between standard and Enduro, and the overall ratios are both lower than my current GS.
IIRC the overall difference is the revs to make 10 M.P.H on my current bike wil make 8.5 M.P.H. on the GSA with Enduro box. Can't find my working at the moment.
I am sure someone more qualified than myself will be along to correct my calculations...
My decision to take a punt was based on the experience of taking my '06 1200GS round Morocco on a Moto-Morocco trip
. There were distinct occasions when the existing first gear ratio felt far too high, and again from riding through South Eats London traffic, it is clearly too high. If it ends up too low for "normal" use, then I can always stay in second gear rather than changing down, I do not have a problem with that. Given the choice between having a lower gear for when I really want it or constantly fanning the clutch I went with the lower gear.
What I did manage to get out of BMUU was the exact ratios...
"The standard gear box is;
1st 2.375 38:16
2nd 1.696 39:23
3rd 1.296 35:27
4th 1.065 33:31
5th 0.939 31:33
6th 0.848 28:33
The only difference with the Enduro box is the 1st gear, the 6th gear is the same as the standard gear box.
1st 2.600 39:15"
Primary ratio is 1.737:1
Final Drive is 2.91:1
It is not a huge difference between standard and Enduro, and the overall ratios are both lower than my current GS.
IIRC the overall difference is the revs to make 10 M.P.H on my current bike wil make 8.5 M.P.H. on the GSA with Enduro box. Can't find my working at the moment.
I am sure someone more qualified than myself will be along to correct my calculations...
I just ride on the road and think the standard 1st is too low if anything. No problem commuting through London with standard setup.
If you're a mud plugger, no doubt the lower gear is a benefit.
If you're a mud plugger, no doubt the lower gear is a benefit.
LiquidLAN
Registered user
at least you are getting some varied responses now.
disappointing that BMW UK hasnt push or the dealers havent gone for a demo with the enduro option - I kind of see the point about not wanting to encourage people to offroad the demos, but there is plenty of reason for having the lower gear on a bike that is purely road based. In fact most of the people I've spoken to who are interested in it are so because of lower speed filtering and making life easier for two up touring
personally I kind of feels like a vote of no confidence if there are no dealers willing to put the option on. When the 12GSA first came out virtually all the demos where setup enduro style, off-road tyres etc...
if you are still stuck on a decision, maybe wait as long as you can and have a chat with the BMW Off Road School, maybe someone there could give you a better opinion on the setup???
disappointing that BMW UK hasnt push or the dealers havent gone for a demo with the enduro option - I kind of see the point about not wanting to encourage people to offroad the demos, but there is plenty of reason for having the lower gear on a bike that is purely road based. In fact most of the people I've spoken to who are interested in it are so because of lower speed filtering and making life easier for two up touring
personally I kind of feels like a vote of no confidence if there are no dealers willing to put the option on. When the 12GSA first came out virtually all the demos where setup enduro style, off-road tyres etc...
if you are still stuck on a decision, maybe wait as long as you can and have a chat with the BMW Off Road School, maybe someone there could give you a better opinion on the setup???
cowboy
Guest
i pick mine up on sat and i went for the low ist gear it definately needs it especially when loaded up
I'm another who has gone for the low 1st. On my present GSA I've wished for a lower gear on a number of occassions. Two up with luggage in traffic or following a lorry steep up a hill when you can't get past.
Going over Hardknott Pass with the wife on the back can be a struggle with the existing gearing.
Going over Hardknott Pass with the wife on the back can be a struggle with the existing gearing.
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kyle
Registered user
you'rer not thinking of taking it off road are you
enduro box is Ace if ........
a) You go in v slow moving traffic
b) You ride with pillion and heavy lugguage....
c) You ride off road
It's only 10% variable..........but you must save the clutch a bit on the above
Disadvantages?
Bigger gap between first and second....?
Pulling away quickly will pop the front end up a little easier....
You want it- go for it.....
a) You go in v slow moving traffic
b) You ride with pillion and heavy lugguage....
c) You ride off road
It's only 10% variable..........but you must save the clutch a bit on the above
Disadvantages?
Bigger gap between first and second....?
Pulling away quickly will pop the front end up a little easier....
You want it- go for it.....
Wrong side of bed?
Not at all.
Simply couldn't work out what someone was going to learn, by asking a bunch of near enough unknown people, as to whether he should buy a bike with a lower first gear.
I could only assume that if 10 said yes, he would buy it. Then worry, having bought it, if he then heard from 11 people, who sucked their teeth and said, "That's a mistake".
All the reviews talk about the lower first gear option being of some use when off-roading, as it was with the earlier (pre-1200) bikes. There was no clue in the question as to whether matey wanted to go mud plugging or cruising along the Kings Road.
PS I am intrigued (and maybe a bit scared) as to the size of the bloke's wife, apparently so large that it requires 1200 with a low 1st gear to do the pass. Surprised the bloke on the push bike in the attached (pretty poor) vid made it. Maybe it's only suitable for R1's?
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I resemble that remark.
.|'m the heavy one but my missus is very smart - thank you very much.
I didn't say a low 1st gear was required - just that there are occassions when it would be useful and quoted a couple.
Nice video. Fair amount clutch slip used by the R1 rider - rather illustrates my point don't you think? - thanks for that.
JIm
Registered user
I have a 06 GSA, Im a bit of an off-road novice, but last September I did some dirt roads and more tricky off-road stuff in the Pyrannees (spelling?). The main problem I found was the high first gear when negotiating slower bits especially down hill bits using engine braking. Slower up hill bits meant lots of clutch work.
I was following a 1150GSA, which has a low first gear, and ended up catching him up and having to stop and let him get ahead again, a bit difficult on loose stones.
The GS/GSA will not move at walking pace without clutch work with standard first gear.
Having said all that, one of the riders that won the HUMM in the Pyrannees last year was on a 1200GSA, so I guess experience counts!
Jim
I was following a 1150GSA, which has a low first gear, and ended up catching him up and having to stop and let him get ahead again, a bit difficult on loose stones.
The GS/GSA will not move at walking pace without clutch work with standard first gear.
Having said all that, one of the riders that won the HUMM in the Pyrannees last year was on a 1200GSA, so I guess experience counts!
Jim
I resemble that remark.
Never doubted it for a second
I wonder if he has made his mind up yet?
Ps I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to compare the 1st gear ratios / general engine set up of an R1 and a vanilla GSA.
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With a six-speed box there's ample opportunity for both a lower first gear and a higher 'overdrive' top.
I would love a lower first gear on my 12GSA both for offroad use and also for commuting in traffic and spent quite a bit of time trying to find out whether the lower first setup from the R1200RTP (police version of the RT) could be used in the GSA. According to the BMW blurb this enables the clutch to be fully home at walking pace, so it must be MUCH lower than my current gearing where I can't have the clutch home below 7mph.
HPN does a lower first gear but I didn't progress this as the difference was only something like 5% and I was looking for much more.
Tim
I would love a lower first gear on my 12GSA both for offroad use and also for commuting in traffic and spent quite a bit of time trying to find out whether the lower first setup from the R1200RTP (police version of the RT) could be used in the GSA. According to the BMW blurb this enables the clutch to be fully home at walking pace, so it must be MUCH lower than my current gearing where I can't have the clutch home below 7mph.
HPN does a lower first gear but I didn't progress this as the difference was only something like 5% and I was looking for much more.
Tim
Keithp
Guest
I'm having a simmilar issue at the moment , but its more of a gs or gsa with low first gear , i had a 1200 gsa which i sold a year or so ago , i'm going to order a new one on sat and i am wondering if the lower first will make it easier to ride throught the gridlock of south london in rush hour .
On the last one i had to constantly dip the clutch to ride slowly enough even at idle it was quiker than the traffic ! which i felt a bit of a pain , it would be much better to sitck in in first and idle along at walkiing pace .
Keith
On the last one i had to constantly dip the clutch to ride slowly enough even at idle it was quiker than the traffic ! which i felt a bit of a pain , it would be much better to sitck in in first and idle along at walkiing pace .
Keith
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