Winter Riding

Hi All, not sure if this is the right forum, but seems to be remotely related.

I'm pretty new to all this, and with winter approaching, I'd be really keen on getting some good tips/advice for riding in cold/icy weather. My commute at the moment starts on country roads, covers a bit of the M25 and M4, then into town. Is it just plain stupid to try to ride in frosty conditions, or can it be done with care? I imagine tyre choice will have a bit to do with it (I'm running Metzeler Tourances on a 650GS), but I'd probably draw the line at the studded knobblies some other (less prestigious) forums recommend.

Any words of winter wisdom that would prevent me, or anyone else out there, getting horizontal would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

six months of winter!

Hi, i recommend you ride through the Winter, as it is 6 months of the year!
Its the same as wet weather riding, you got to have the right kit and also the need to over coming the fear of slipping/skidding. Avoid harsh acceleration and last minute braking,look ahead for(the basics) man hole covers, road paint, disel spills. Tyre choice only adds to your feel of confidence,anything that is expensive works well! Continetal attacks on my GS always good at any time of the year, suprised me too! other-wise always prefered Metzlers before Bridgestones. I think heated grips & heated jacket really helps to attain concentration while dealing with the box drivers with there frosted/dirty windows & mirrors. Good luck with it,enjoy those dry frosty mornings, cause that'll make up for the journeys home at night when its slashing it down & you the bike are covered in sticky road salt(afc50)

If I had to commute through the winter, I'd be tempted to try Heidenau K60 Scout M+S tyres. As far as I know, they're the only motorcycle tyres with a dedicated high-silica M+S compound.

As you may know, the compound of most "summer tyres" ceases to function properly below ambient temperatures of 7 deg C. An M+S compound should retain its pliability down to much lower temperatures and therefore grip better in cold and wet road conditions.

Hiya mate

I just led a trio of GS bikes through some pretty horrendous weather today including melted snow, settled snow, falling snow and slippery roads. It was a quite brilliant day rode safely and reasonably swiftly in stunning scenery and good company so most definitely go for it if you're able.

I agree with advice above and would say the following;

1. Any ice, stay at home or take car.

2. Throttle , smooth

3. Brake, as throttle

4. Tipping in, as throttle (you can see the pattern here)

5. Blind crests, caution coming across worse conditions on other side

6. Distances, increase from other vehicles and allow greater to stop

7. Bike, check TPs and general worthiness of tyres more particularly than you may during summer

8. Kit, crap kit will cause you, and thus your riding to suffer

9. Time, allow longer for everything, getting changed, journey, fuelling etc etc

10. Have fun and arrive with a huge satisfied grin as we did today

Hope this is of use mate, oh welcome on board too

Keeping warm is crucial. Your concentration will drift and your digits may not respond as requested if you are cold.

For winter commuting I found bar muffs & a gaucho were worthwhile investments as they protect you from the worst of the windchill & rain.

wessie said:

Keeping warm is crucial. Your concentration will drift and your digits may not respond as requested if you are cold.

For winter commuting I found bar muffs & a gaucho were worthwhile investments as they protect you from the worst of the windchill & rain.

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Ditto... also heated gear such as grips and a waistcoat... As you lose heat you will rapidly lose concentration and control... Core warmth etc. BM's can usually handle the extra load on the electrics and BM style accessory sockets are a must

Smooth everything, ride ultra defensifely so you don't have to brake/change direction sharply for numpty car drivers, watch the ice and avoid if possible. Main roads are better salted and you can still filter OK if the traffic is heavier.

Also back roads have the worse hills and sharper corners which if icy are the the heart beat raisers...

Also learn where the icy bits are likely to be... those chilly dips or bad drainage, driveways etc so you are not caught out on those drier mornings.

I have ridden through every winter since the late 80's and it is a major learning area and makes the summers even more fun as you see nice warm, dry roads again Up here in Shetland there are a lot more days where riding would be stupid but have some "cut off" in your head where you seek and alternative... When "Sooth" I didn't have an alternative for most of the time

I don't ride on extensively icy roads which I mean solid ice not just frost...

I try to avoid snow as up here it's likely to get much worse

Once the wind gets up above F6-7 you are in far less control so think very carefully before heading out into an impending gale... and remember all the debris that gales leave behind!

Heavy rain is absolutely fine if you kit out pretty well (you'll still get wet at some point though!). Bikes are far better in floods also...

The good thing is an F650 is far more under your control as big boxers etc are far heavier for icy roads.

For tyres then as recommended above, a decent set of winter/ more treaded/enduro orientated tyres are worth it for a smaller bike like yours...

Spray your bike with ACF or similar, use some grease etc and let it get mucky and clean infrequently... if its salty roads then wash it off and re-apply.

I still remember many winters as a courier/instructor with a combination of pain/ grimace and quite a few smiles... Spring/Summer just gets better!

PS If you do get caught out in really bad stuff then keep relaxed/ thinking and you will get to the other end. Having a stop in a garage or similar is not a bad thing and longer winter trips need more stops.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to impart their wisdom here. An amazing response - pretty much a bible on winter riding right here!

Basically, I have gathered:
- Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
- Dress warm (could I recommend Icebreaker - bloody warm - even when wet, and very difficult to make it stink!)
- Stay warm (have just ordered some 7mm neoprene to make some hand-muffs)
- Smooth EVERYTHING
- Get some good tyres (the Heidenau K60 Scout M+S have had some pretty impressive reviews from what I've seen) and run them at the correct pressure
- Frost = Good (well, okay at least), Snow = Marginal, Ice = Bad.
- Think ahead - both road hazards and routes
- Allow extra time - to get places and do things
- Ride defensively - allow extra space between "box" drivers
- AFC50 seems to be a favourite
- Relax
- Think
- Think

Oyster - "over coming the fear of slipping/skidding" - sounds easy... I'll do that tomorrow...

Thanks again for all the tips and advice, all incredibly helpful!

Cheers.

Another thing, most of your commuting in the winter will be done in the dark, need to make sure your visor is clean and fog free. I use pinlock to keep it clear on the inside and take a spray on cleaner and microfibre cloth in my bag to clean the visor at work for the return journey. Salt doesn't half bugger up a visor.

Tyre wise, I've just put a set of Pilot Road 3's on my bike - what a fantastic winter tyre it is, best wet weather tyre I've ever had by a very large margin.

GS-Express said:

- Dress warm (could I recommend Icebreaker - bloody warm - even when wet, and very difficult to make it stink!)

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You can indeed recommend Icebreaker. SWMBO and I have several pieces of Icebreaker kit; some of it bought in the USA for stupidly low prices. However, I've seen it suggested that Chocolate Fish which is still made in New Zealand, whereas Icebreaker isn't, is actually better kit.

After about 40 years of only using insulation to ride through too many winters, I finally relented and bought a piece of heated kit this year. It's only an electrically heated pad which fits into the back protector pocket in my jacket but in combination with an Outlast fleece and the Outlast lining in my Rukka trousers, it makes a remarkable difference to my comfort levels.

http://www.windingroads.co.uk/shop/product.php/151/heatpro_heated_back_pad_vest_waistcoat_jacket

GSmonkey said:

Another thing, most of your commuting in the winter will be done in the dark, need to make sure your visor is clean and fog free. I use pinlock to keep it clear on the inside and take a spray on cleaner and microfibre cloth in my bag to clean the visor at work for the return journey. Salt doesn't half bugger up a visor.

Tyre wise, I've just put a set of Pilot Road 3's on my bike - what a fantastic winter tyre it is, best wet weather tyre I've ever had by a very large margin.

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Very good about the visor and I used to clean visor twice a day when working on a bike full time... also if it gets noticeably scratched replace it pronto as the extra stress of poor visibility just isn't worth it...

Being used to riding in bad weather in the dark is worth 1000 sunny days experience wise as the "feel" you get for the bike is paramount.

Practice and be happy with your harder braking in poor conditions and keep your brakes tip-top and also...

...One minorly controversial area is.... ABS ABS makes a great difference to riding in the winter dark/wet etc and in an emergency you WILL stop far quicker. Experienced rider may feel they can match it in the dry but in wet slippery conditions you would be lucky to get even close... You may never need it but it is another tool to help...

If you ever want to test the theory then find a nice wet and quiet car park and try some serious braking... then progress onto a bit of gravel that you find down many a country road

Obviously, good riders are supposed never to need such things but we all know your only as good as your last ride...

+1 for that

I dropped out of my mothers punani straight onto a NS400R and I never turn my ABS off, the arguments go long and boring but for 99 pc of riders its better always on, theres a lot of macho i dont need it bollockks, most of which is just that, bollocks.

Have a look at the EMids section under Notts xmas wazz for some decent photos, oh PM me if you like to chat, Im no god but am happy to help where I can

Good thread, triggered by a sensibly addressed honest question

Nothing much to add, but TKC's are NOT the right tyre for winter on roads....the first bit of cold wet banding or ironwork and you'd be leaving stains on your seat or worse.



'There's no such thing as the wrong weather for biking, just the wrong kit'

PS oyster mentioned it in passing, but half (if not more) of the cars on the road will have frosted/misted windows until you get on to the major routes (and then some) so you may lose some of the '5th sense' that you get from watching the body language of the driver and their car (that may not make sense when written, but it does in real life) because you cant see the driver.....that means (durrr) that they cant see you either, so the second you clock a frosted window, assume that they HAVE NOT seen you and ride accordingly

If you fall off on the road don't stick your arm or leg out in an attempt to prevent the fall.

Steptoe said:

If you fall off on the road don't stick your arm or leg out in an attempt to prevent the fall.

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Sooooo true!!!!! Dropped the F800GS this morning on a patch of ice on a back-street junction! Did anyone mention STAY OFF BACK STREETS WHEN ITS COLD? Fortunately I was only doing about 10 mph at the time and it was just a nice little slide.

Other tip...buy a GS! My lh-pillion peg now has a flat end rather than that shapely little point and there are a couple of tiny scratches on the hand-guard. Other than that you'd never know she'd been down. Can you imagine how much that little incident would have cost on a plastic-encrusted tourer?

So...bike-pretty much pristine; me-undamaged; pride-totally undented 'coz no-one (except maybe Mystic Meg on very good day) could have seen that one coming.

PS - watch out for untreated surfaces even if the temp guage (or maybe gauge - they both look wrong ) reads 4 deg!

PPS - the reason I was undamaged..Spada textile trousers (armoured), Revitt textile jacket (armoured) good armoured gloves and Spada Wave boots - not to mention the lid...but, most important of all, never, ever ride in winter without your Millets, double-lined, wool-knit walking socks...toasty toasty tootsies !!!

Another little tip that will help on longer journeys. The salted roads will attract the moisture, rarely do you get DRY salted roads. The spray kicked up by traffic, especially lorries, will coat your visor in salt water, which due to the temperature and drying efect of the wind will leave a dry layer of salt across your vision - all of it! Wet salt can be wiped away with one of those finger blades for your left hand, but once it has built up and dried, you cannot see a thing. Sooner in the dark with car lights scattering off the salt crystals.

Get an earosol lid and put a couple of holes in it so you can cable tie it to your cross bar on the handlebars. Put a piece of spong in the lid with a cable tie through one corner of it as a handle. Water in the lid will keep the sponge moist - yes it freezes in deep cold, but take it in and wash it under the kitchen tap, take it out with you unfrozen and it will be fine - use it, with gloves on, to wipe your visor clear, then use the finger blade to scrape it dry. You can do it on the go, you don't have to stop. Wash it out at pee stops, or once you get to work, so you have a fresh sponge every now and then on the journey. It becomes your windscreen wash for your bike!

In wet, your gap should be 4 seconds between you and the vehicle in front. In icey conditions that should extend to 10 seconds - no wonder people have crashes, cars are rarely 1 second apart.

I have seen the road surface on motorway bridges be more slippery than the road surface on the solid ground either side of the bridge, think this is something to do with it being chilled from under and over the bridge making any moisture around more likely to freeze.

EggChaser said:

I have seen the road surface on motorway bridges be more slippery than the road surface on the solid ground either side of the bridge, think this is something to do with it being chilled from under and over the bridge making any moisture around more likely to freeze.

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Used to have one or two in Devon and was usually due to wind chill blowing down the valley. With a bit of ice and a side wind at quicker speeds it usually made for a bit of excitement!

CuzGS said:

Hiya mate

I just led a trio of GS bikes through some pretty horrendous weather today including melted snow, settled snow, falling snow and slippery roads. It was a quite brilliant day rode safely and reasonably swiftly in stunning scenery and good company so most definitely go for it if you're able.

I agree with advice above and would say the following;

1. Any ice, stay at home or take car.

2. Throttle , smooth

3. Brake, as throttle

4. Tipping in, as throttle (you can see the pattern here)

5. Blind crests, caution coming across worse conditions on other side

6. Distances, increase from other vehicles and allow greater to stop

7. Bike, check TPs and general worthiness of tyres more particularly than you may during summer

8. Kit, crap kit will cause you, and thus your riding to suffer

9. Time, allow longer for everything, getting changed, journey, fuelling etc etc

10. Have fun and arrive with a huge satisfied grin as we did today

Hope this is of use mate, oh welcome on board too

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Amen to that. great ride in some very interesting weather.

Yes mate, a great day, a few less 70mph snow interfaces over ridges near Buxton would have been even better

Just a little thing to add after my mammoth trip today of 12 hours Germany to Shropshire with sleet snow and rain...Ring ahead using Bluetooth get the wife to run a bath !!!