Weird Indicator failure - 1150 GS Adv

Just collected my 2003 1150 Adv from Scrimingers after having a custom geartbox fitted. Unfortunately by trailer - hey ho...

Got back to my mate Peter's garage and decided to fit the HIDs and Autoswitch I'd bought. Bike on ramp, tank off, headlights off. Decided to sort the autoswitch first, so disconnected the right hand handlebar switch main plug under the tank, before baring a section of the Brown/White wire on the 'bike' end of the connector. This is the 'Indicator Cancel' wire and should give a pulse to earth when the indicator cancel button is pressed.

Reconnected the plug and put the multimeter on the positive battery terminal and the bared wire, turned the ignition on - no reading. Pushed the cancel button - once again no reading. Hmmm. Tried the indicators - they didn't work. Checked that the plug was correctly seated and all pins in good condition. Neither indicator worked.

Weirdly, though, the hazard lights worked as advertised from the switch, both on and off.

Work I have done affecting the indicators recently:

Fitted rear LED indicators with extra brake lamp LEDs - these worked as advertised after fitting and the brake light LEDs still work - as do the indicators, but ony as hazards.

Fitted front LED indicators and these also worked as advertised (and still do - but only as hazard lights).

I rode the bike 70ish miles to Sleaford last Saturday when all the indicators were working OK. Steve Scriminger replaced the gearbox, the header studs in the heads, changed the final drive oil, fitted a new clutch slave cylinder and air filter. He also did a throttle body balance. None of this would, on the face of it, have any effect on the problem - I mention it for completeness.

I have a spare indicator relay in the garage somewhere, so I'll be replacing that as a logical next step, but I'm pretty sure the same relay controls the hazard lights, so I'm not hopeful that this is the cause.

Any ideas?

Mike

Sounds like your mod has put a perminant earth on the brown white wire. Just checked my bike. Holding the cancel button in gives your exact symptoms including the hazard flashers working OK.

Ian J Hartley said:

Sounds like your mod has put a perminant earth on the brown white wire. Just checked my bike. Holding the cancel button in gives your exact symptoms including the hazard flashers working OK.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ian,

The problem is that the symptoms occurred before I had modified anything (except to remove the insulation from a section of Brown/White wire).

Interesting that that produces the same symptoms, though...

Mike

Update:

I've now got the bike in the garage. When I disconnect the RH switchgear at the under-tank multi-pin plug, the left indicator now functions as normal.

It's tempting to point the finger at the right hand switchgear, but I guess the fault could also be anywhere where the circuits are 'made' when the switchgear is connected?

Mike

Mike O said:

Reconnected the plug and put the multimeter on the positive battery terminal and the bared wire, turned the ignition on - no reading. Pushed the cancel button - once again no reading. Hmmm. Tried the indicators - they didn't work. Checked that the plug was correctly seated and all pins in good condition. Neither indicator worked.

Click to expand...

I wonder if you haven't accidentally but a high current through the switch and welded it closed.

The normal potentional on the brown/white wire would be a small positive voltage, we are dealing with semi conductor devices inside the indicator module. If you have placed a high potential difference across the switch, which is a low voltage low current device, then you might have damaged it.

I would have placed the multimeter between the earth of the battery and the bared wire, not the positive.

Ian J Hartley said:

I wonder if you haven't accidentally but a high current through the switch and welded it closed.

The normal potentional on the brown/white wire would be a small positive voltage, we are dealing with semi conductor devices inside the indicator module. If you have placed a high potential difference across the switch, which is a low voltage low current device, then you might have damaged it.

I would have placed the multimeter between the earth of the battery and the bared wire, not the positive.

Click to expand...

How would I have checked for the 'Earth Pulse' when the switch is activated using that method, though?

Thanks for the ideas - please keep them coming

Mike

With the multimeter set to voltage. You connect it between the negative and the bare wire. The voltage should be either positive or negative but low. When you press the cancel switch the voltage should drop to zero, and remain at zero whilst you have the switch held. That's your earth pulse.

Ian J Hartley said:

With the multimeter set to voltage. You connect it between the negative and the bare wire. The voltage should be either positive or negative but low. When you press the cancel switch the voltage should drop to zero, and remain at zero whilst you have the switch held. That's your earth pulse.

Click to expand...

OK, that makes sense

So, with the multimeter set to voltage and connecting the red probe to positive and the black to the bare wire - was I introducing power to the wire?

If I've buggered something is it more likely to be the handlebar switch, or the flasher unit, would you think? Any way to test and tell? I can't find the spare flasher unit in the sub-zero hell that is my garage at the moment, but will do a Titus Oates in a minute and have another look...

Mike

Maybe, it depends on your multimeter. The fact you can get the left indicator to work with the right handle bar switches disconnected sounds promising. You can mimic the actions of the switch using shorting wires at the disconnected connector. Main loom

Jumper across the brown and blue/yellow should get the right indicators to work.

Jumper the brown and brown/white should cancel.

If this works, your indicator module is ok.

Check continuity across the handlebar cancel switch. Brown and brown/white. If you have continuity then your switch is made permanently.

If you are on a voltage scale then the meter would not normally be putting out a voltage. its just on the ohms scale you get the meter putting out a voltage, most commonly 9 volts.

If you have disconnected the wiring to the switch you should be able to test on the wires towards the switches to prove they work OK, the meter voltage on the ohms scale for this test should not affect the switches as the current is very low.
Check the wires where they go into the switch, this is the more likely place if the fault is on this part of the circuit. Crush and abrasion to the wires could cause your symptoms. Good luck.

Ian J Hartley said:

Maybe, it depends on your multimeter. The fact you can get the left indicator to work with the right handle bar switches disconnected sounds promising. You can mimic the actions of the switch using shorting wires at the disconnected connector. Main loom

Jumper across the brown and blue/yellow should get the right indicators to work.

Jumper the brown and brown/white should cancel.

If this works, your indicator module is ok.

Check continuity across the handlebar cancel switch. Brown and brown/white. If you have continuity then your switch is made permanently.

Click to expand...

Many thanks Ian - I'll go and check now...

Mike

Don't forget your fire extinguisher

Timolgra said:

Don't forget your fire extinguisher

Click to expand...

Ian J Hartley said:

Maybe, it depends on your multimeter. The fact you can get the left indicator to work with the right handle bar switches disconnected sounds promising. You can mimic the actions of the switch using shorting wires at the disconnected connector. Main loom

Jumper across the brown and blue/yellow should get the right indicators to work.

Jumper the brown and brown/white should cancel.

If this works, your indicator module is ok.

Check continuity across the handlebar cancel switch. Brown and brown/white. If you have continuity then your switch is made permanently.

Click to expand...

Hi Ian,

OK - jumped the Yellow/Blue and Brown and the indicator came on. Jumped the Brown/White and Brown and it turned off - so the loom side all looks good.

I had difficulty testing the switch side. I'm working in cramped conditions with poor light and can't be sure I am checking the correct terminals (the 'new' plugs on this bike are much more difficult to test than the ones on my previous bike, where you could push the probe down the side of the wire).

I think I'm going to ring Motorworks and see if they have a used RH switch unit. If so I'll get it (hopefully on sale or return - they've done this for me in the past). It will make an easy check, as the tank is off the bike - I'm going to be able to see if it has sorted the problem in about two minutes...

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions.

Even your's Tim...

Mike

Sounds like you switch might be stuck. Try tapping around the black plastic with the handle of a screwdriver. A few good taps might be enough to unstick it. They are expensive items to replace as a unit.

You could dismantle yours to get at the switch.

You could try checking the loom as "Warmshed" suggests.

Anything is preferable to paying for a new switch assembly.

Motorworks are sending me a used RH switchgear set, sale or return. It should be here tomorrow (weather permitting)...

Mike

Replacement switchgear fitted and problem cured.

I've got some spare switches in a drawer somewhere, so I'm going to remove the switchgear at the weekend and replace the indicator cancel switch.

Many thanks for all the help...

Mike

A mate of mine soldered in a replacement switch from a scrap set of switchgear I had in the drawer yesterday & everything now works as advertised : thumb2

The replacement from Motorworks is packaged up ready for return on Monday,

The switch which failed had obviously got quite hot - the plastic actuator had melted and the contacts lost any 'springiness' - amazing, bearing in mind they had only been subjected to the tiny voltage from a test meter...

Thanks for all the help & advice, both on here and by PM...

Mike