Returning to a hexhead

[Nando654321]

I’ve owned both engine types a 2009 hex and 2010,2011 & 2012 TC.

All brilliant but I far prefer the TC for smoothness out of the box. I did find my 2011 was causing white finger after long rides but Rox anti-vibe sorted this. The other two twin cams were smooth as smooth things.

The 2009 hex required a remap to get it soothed out but it still didn’t have the grunt of any of the twin cams.

For me twin cam engine wins my vote hands down, however that’s just my opinion and each to their own..

Agreed

TCs are lovely. The engine spits out just that little bit more HP and Torque which I like when riding out with friends, while still being able to commute no issues.

For me, also a very important part is the sheer amount of new & used parts I can buy for it, eye watering amount which is great news long term. Mixed with spannering which is still wayyyyyyyy simpler than the LCs, for me it becomes a no brainer at the moment

But never say never, shiny toys may get me some day.

 

[botus]

can't resist telling the truth in front of inaccurate eulogies

climbing96 said:
Ladies and gentlemen. I may have come across a fix for my 2009 GSA. My right hand has been going numb, and I would need to use my left hand on the throttle to give my right hand a break.

botus said:
2010 TC, above 4k rpm I get a numb right hand within a few mins.... ride for 20 miles >4500 rpm and you need a day to recover from a "white finger" type episode..."

I for one agree entirely with comments about unreasonable bar vibration from the 1200 TC engine... and indeed I've also found a wild impossible change when playing... Please note I still have my hex head and I've done 30k miles on it, and even done 1000 miles in a day - with no real issues (if you remember to take your airhawk cushion !) - but now I've bought a TC as well, this new thing has really horrible bar vibration as it goes above 4k rpm and, I get a numb right hand. The bike is like brand new and its only done 9400k miles - and I agree below 3k RPM its miles more refined than the old tractor, but everywhere else, performance and NVH is a car crash from hell

Looking at causes and solutions (or not) I just found a thread on advrider.com hoping to see if anyone makes anti-vibration mounts - So far things are not going well at resolving using basic servicing ideas... First I checked and tweaked up to FT the engine mounts, then did the valve clearances, oil change to a posh brand of semi syn 10w50 to MA2 spec. pushed 300ml of atomised water / meth 50 50 mix through the throttle bodies revving around 3 to 4k to clear out any gunk on the inlet valve side of things, and in doing that found the floor of the air box full of a greasy oil solution which I cleaned out, re calibration of the idle stepper motors, then re-balanced the throttle bodies. All of which has made zero difference at all to how it runs or vibrates...

Then two week back on a Friday a strange occurrence brings an interesting perspective on the rest of climbing96's post (in advrider.com) - it clearly shows he doesn't understand how its engine management set up operates (what he has written later can't have any effect)... but then something odd just happened to me that makes ZERO sense on my bike either...

I just had the bike's I-Level flashed for the first ever time (last week by a main dealer). Some 12 years ago somehow it had never got the UK std. point of new sale software update that dealers are meant to perform... but now they claimed nothing got updated... and it WAS indeed going just as badly when they gave it back. And whilst I have given it about 100 miles over 4 rides to see if its adaptions settle to something better (after the I-level update) - I was getting no improvements....

indeed this thing (as it has in the 500 miles I've had it) still struggles to rev out past 7k rpm regardless of 99 unleaded or not. Until I fitted one more anti-vibration attempt THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY cause the engine performance to change, but APPEARS to have had a dramatic effect on the bike during my last ride !!!

Still attempting to make the bike rideable above 4k rpm, I bought the handlebar bar brace from BM germany - the one fitted on the original 2006 Adventures (see options on OEM parts listing for 2008 and 2010 GS's), I put that on then took it up the road.... what appears to have changed, is now the left bar vibrates a lot more than I remember, and the right maybe subtlety less but both are still buzzy and nasty compared to the head bike.

So I start some diagnosis - going along holding each end of the bar brace between my left fingertips - the left vibrates at a very different frequency to the right side which has a much higher frequency buzz.... overall all I recollect now is the left bar vibrate much worse than it was - the right is still terrible, but intriguingly my right hand didn't actually go numb this ride ????.... then I went a bit harder on a highway and wasn't really impressed with the change - I was really just riding to get some miles on to allow the oil to warm up so i could give it some exercise - then when I ripped it (I'd forgotten to put in S mode and the traction hit in hard). Of course not for the first time - but its first time I forgot since the I-level update... And suddenly this seems to have woken the DME from a 12 year slumber - Ever since its pulling through passed 7k rpm with a vigour its not had previously - and I'm even getting some air under full throttle in 2nd as it revs out - (something it never managed previously)

All rather odd and confusing - either it got an engine ECU update but its been ignoring change till friday's heavy traction control intervention made it re think life - (sounds a bit far fetched even for BM's incompetent workshop procedures) or (and even more irrational), the bar brace has reduced bike vibrations till the engine knock sensors are happier ???

 

[Slipperyeel]

can't resist telling the truth in front of inaccurate eulogies






I for one agree entirely with comments about unreasonable bar vibration from the 1200 TC engine... and indeed I've also found a wild impossible change when playing... Please note I still have my hex head and I've done 30k miles on it, and even done 1000 miles in a day - with no real issues (if you remember to take your airhawk cushion !) - but now I've bought a TC as well, this new thing has really horrible bar vibration as it goes above 4k rpm and, I get a numb right hand. The bike is like brand new and its only done 9400k miles - and I agree below 3k RPM its miles more refined than the old tractor, but everywhere else, performance and NVH is a car crash from hell

Looking at causes and solutions (or not) I just found a thread on advrider.com hoping to see if anyone makes anti-vibration mounts - So far things are not going well at resolving using basic servicing ideas... First I checked and tweaked up to FT the engine mounts, then did the valve clearances, oil change to a posh brand of semi syn 10w50 to MA2 spec. pushed 300ml of atomised water / meth 50 50 mix through the throttle bodies revving around 3 to 4k to clear out any gunk on the inlet valve side of things, and in doing that found the floor of the air box full of a greasy oil solution which I cleaned out, re calibration of the idle stepper motors, then re-balanced the throttle bodies. All of which has made zero difference at all to how it runs or vibrates...

Then two week back on a Friday a strange occurrence brings an interesting perspective on the rest of climbing96's post (in advrider.com) - it clearly shows he doesn't understand how its engine management set up operates (what he has written later can't have any effect)... but then something odd just happened to me that makes ZERO sense on my bike either...

I just had the bike's I-Level flashed for the first ever time (last week by a main dealer). Some 12 years ago somehow it had never got the UK std. point of new sale software update that dealers are meant to perform... but now they claimed nothing got updated... and it WAS indeed going just as badly when they gave it back. And whilst I have given it about 100 miles over 4 rides to see if its adaptions settle to something better (after the I-level update) - I was getting no improvements....

indeed this thing (as it has in the 500 miles I've had it) still struggles to rev out past 7k rpm regardless of 99 unleaded or not. Until I fitted one more anti-vibration attempt THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY cause the engine performance to change, but APPEARS to have had a dramatic effect on the bike during my last ride !!!

Still attempting to make the bike rideable above 4k rpm, I bought the handlebar bar brace from BM germany - the one fitted on the original 2006 Adventures (see options on OEM parts listing for 2008 and 2010 GS's), I put that on then took it up the road.... what appears to have changed, is now the left bar vibrates a lot more than I remember, and the right maybe subtlety less but both are still buzzy and nasty compared to the head bike.

So I start some diagnosis - going along holding each end of the bar brace between my left fingertips - the left vibrates at a very different frequency to the right side which has a much higher frequency buzz.... overall all I recollect now is the left bar vibrate much worse than it was - the right is still terrible, but intriguingly my right hand didn't actually go numb this ride ????.... then I went a bit harder on a highway and wasn't really impressed with the change - I was really just riding to get some miles on to allow the oil to warm up so i could give it some exercise - then when I ripped it (I'd forgotten to put in S mode and the traction hit in hard). Of course not for the first time - but its first time I forgot since the I-level update... And suddenly this seems to have woken the DME from a 12 year slumber - Ever since its pulling through passed 7k rpm with a vigour its not had previously - and I'm even getting some air under full throttle in 2nd as it revs out - (something it never managed previously)

All rather odd and confusing - either it got an engine ECU update but its been ignoring change till friday's heavy traction control intervention made it re think life - (sounds a bit far fetched even for BM's incompetent workshop procedures) or (and even more irrational), the bar brace has reduced bike vibrations till the engine knock sensors are happier ???

There is something wrong/needs adjusting on your TC. Nearly done 50k miles of my own on my TC and no vibration in the bars...

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Harlequin]

Its all relative. I have a 2009 GSA and its superb

 

[Nando654321]

can't resist telling the truth in front of inaccurate eulogies






I for one agree entirely with comments about unreasonable bar vibration from the 1200 TC engine... and indeed I've also found a wild impossible change when playing... Please note I still have my hex head and I've done 30k miles on it, and even done 1000 miles in a day - with no real issues (if you remember to take your airhawk cushion !) - but now I've bought a TC as well, this new thing has really horrible bar vibration as it goes above 4k rpm and, I get a numb right hand. The bike is like brand new and its only done 9400k miles - and I agree below 3k RPM its miles more refined than the old tractor, but everywhere else, performance and NVH is a car crash from hell

Looking at causes and solutions (or not) I just found a thread on advrider.com hoping to see if anyone makes anti-vibration mounts - So far things are not going well at resolving using basic servicing ideas... First I checked and tweaked up to FT the engine mounts, then did the valve clearances, oil change to a posh brand of semi syn 10w50 to MA2 spec. pushed 300ml of atomised water / meth 50 50 mix through the throttle bodies revving around 3 to 4k to clear out any gunk on the inlet valve side of things, and in doing that found the floor of the air box full of a greasy oil solution which I cleaned out, re calibration of the idle stepper motors, then re-balanced the throttle bodies. All of which has made zero difference at all to how it runs or vibrates...

Then two week back on a Friday a strange occurrence brings an interesting perspective on the rest of climbing96's post (in advrider.com) - it clearly shows he doesn't understand how its engine management set up operates (what he has written later can't have any effect)... but then something odd just happened to me that makes ZERO sense on my bike either...

I just had the bike's I-Level flashed for the first ever time (last week by a main dealer). Some 12 years ago somehow it had never got the UK std. point of new sale software update that dealers are meant to perform... but now they claimed nothing got updated... and it WAS indeed going just as badly when they gave it back. And whilst I have given it about 100 miles over 4 rides to see if its adaptions settle to something better (after the I-level update) - I was getting no improvements....

indeed this thing (as it has in the 500 miles I've had it) still struggles to rev out past 7k rpm regardless of 99 unleaded or not. Until I fitted one more anti-vibration attempt THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY cause the engine performance to change, but APPEARS to have had a dramatic effect on the bike during my last ride !!!

Still attempting to make the bike rideable above 4k rpm, I bought the handlebar bar brace from BM germany - the one fitted on the original 2006 Adventures (see options on OEM parts listing for 2008 and 2010 GS's), I put that on then took it up the road.... what appears to have changed, is now the left bar vibrates a lot more than I remember, and the right maybe subtlety less but both are still buzzy and nasty compared to the head bike.

So I start some diagnosis - going along holding each end of the bar brace between my left fingertips - the left vibrates at a very different frequency to the right side which has a much higher frequency buzz.... overall all I recollect now is the left bar vibrate much worse than it was - the right is still terrible, but intriguingly my right hand didn't actually go numb this ride ????.... then I went a bit harder on a highway and wasn't really impressed with the change - I was really just riding to get some miles on to allow the oil to warm up so i could give it some exercise - then when I ripped it (I'd forgotten to put in S mode and the traction hit in hard). Of course not for the first time - but its first time I forgot since the I-level update... And suddenly this seems to have woken the DME from a 12 year slumber - Ever since its pulling through passed 7k rpm with a vigour its not had previously - and I'm even getting some air under full throttle in 2nd as it revs out - (something it never managed previously)

All rather odd and confusing - either it got an engine ECU update but its been ignoring change till friday's heavy traction control intervention made it re think life - (sounds a bit far fetched even for BM's incompetent workshop procedures) or (and even more irrational), the bar brace has reduced bike vibrations till the engine knock sensors are happier ???

This is fascinating for me and a good reminder that even when we all have the same bike, there can be huge differences in problems / reviews

Over the Friday / Saturday literally just gone I did circa 950kms of mixed hard motorway & pretty countryside roads across UK-France-Belgium

I could see my hands vibrating around when at the circa 70mph or more, but it was never ever a problem. Rode home and my only issue was a bit of a sore arse that’s all.

I’m not in any way saying “you’re wrong!” It’s more of a interest that each of us can be affected differently by our bikes

Hope you manage to get it sorted and enjoy the bike

 

[Pukmeister]

My Non-TC Hexhead was coarse and also wouldn't pull high RPM strongly. Then I found the thread about the hexhead internal fuel filter bypass mod and replacing the OE fuel pump (which gets weaker with age). Chatting with Mistacat, I learnt how he had fitted a tee-piece and pressure gauge to his fuel line and could see how pump output pressure reduced under load.

I did these mods to my bike, drilling out the moulded plastic mesh filter and then fitting a Mahle high pressure external fuel filter instead of the plastic hidden fuel filter in the pump housing (and also fitting a new Quantum fuel pump.)

The difference was night and day, a much smoother running engine and power all the way to the red line.

 

[Mistacat]

Just as an update, regarding fuel pressure and the gauge on the dash, I have noticed over the last month that the fuel pressure has slowly been increasing.
Suspected the gauge so replaced it also tried a large calibrated gauge.
The fuel pressure had increased from 4 Bar ( 59 psi) to over 5bar ( 75 psi) .
Not noticed any difference in performance , I think closed loop would cope with the increase but in open loop it must be running rich. ( have not bothered fitting the diagnostic kit to check the AFR in open loop as a new fuel pressure regulator has arrived this morning.
Will fit the new regulator this afternoon, fingers crossed.

 

[Mistacat]

New fuel pressure regulator fitted ( I have used a Quantum 4.5 bar regulator, just to richen it a touch on hard acceleration, open loop ) but we will see.
When I get a bit of spare time I will have a play with the diagnostics.
This is a 2012 TC GS which I have done over 90K miles There is the slightest vibration through the pegs at 71 to 74 true (GPS) MPH.
No vibration through the bars at all, but I have Rox anti vibration bar risers, Grip puppies, I made large stainless bar end weights that fit into the bars as well. and the fueling is sorted with AFXied`s,.
This is the best bike that I have ever riden.
I always imagined that a failing fuel pressure regulator would lower the fuel pressure not raise it. Someone could possibly explain this ?

 

[mpgscott]

I owned a low mileage 2011 twin cam with no toys, I spent most of the year I owned it trying to get rid of the numb fingers. Tried Rox anti vibe risers, balancing of throttle bodies and never resolved it.

Then moved to a 2012 GSA and absolutely no vibrations or numb finger.

Few years later bought an early twin cam GS early 2010 and no numb fingers.

My 2009 RT had vibration resolved with remap.

So seems to be luck of the draw me thinks..

 

[gazza12adv]

can't resist telling the truth in front of inaccurate eulogies






I for one agree entirely with comments about unreasonable bar vibration from the 1200 TC engine... and indeed I've also found a wild impossible change when playing... Please note I still have my hex head and I've done 30k miles on it, and even done 1000 miles in a day - with no real issues (if you remember to take your airhawk cushion !) - but now I've bought a TC as well, this new thing has really horrible bar vibration as it goes above 4k rpm and, I get a numb right hand. The bike is like brand new and its only done 9400k miles - and I agree below 3k RPM its miles more refined than the old tractor, but everywhere else, performance and NVH is a car crash from hell

Looking at causes and solutions (or not) I just found a thread on advrider.com hoping to see if anyone makes anti-vibration mounts - So far things are not going well at resolving using basic servicing ideas... First I checked and tweaked up to FT the engine mounts, then did the valve clearances, oil change to a posh brand of semi syn 10w50 to MA2 spec. pushed 300ml of atomised water / meth 50 50 mix through the throttle bodies revving around 3 to 4k to clear out any gunk on the inlet valve side of things, and in doing that found the floor of the air box full of a greasy oil solution which I cleaned out, re calibration of the idle stepper motors, then re-balanced the throttle bodies. All of which has made zero difference at all to how it runs or vibrates...

Then two week back on a Friday a strange occurrence brings an interesting perspective on the rest of climbing96's post (in advrider.com) - it clearly shows he doesn't understand how its engine management set up operates (what he has written later can't have any effect)... but then something odd just happened to me that makes ZERO sense on my bike either...

I just had the bike's I-Level flashed for the first ever time (last week by a main dealer). Some 12 years ago somehow it had never got the UK std. point of new sale software update that dealers are meant to perform... but now they claimed nothing got updated... and it WAS indeed going just as badly when they gave it back. And whilst I have given it about 100 miles over 4 rides to see if its adaptions settle to something better (after the I-level update) - I was getting no improvements....

indeed this thing (as it has in the 500 miles I've had it) still struggles to rev out past 7k rpm regardless of 99 unleaded or not. Until I fitted one more anti-vibration attempt THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY cause the engine performance to change, but APPEARS to have had a dramatic effect on the bike during my last ride !!!

Still attempting to make the bike rideable above 4k rpm, I bought the handlebar bar brace from BM germany - the one fitted on the original 2006 Adventures (see options on OEM parts listing for 2008 and 2010 GS's), I put that on then took it up the road.... what appears to have changed, is now the left bar vibrates a lot more than I remember, and the right maybe subtlety less but both are still buzzy and nasty compared to the head bike.

So I start some diagnosis - going along holding each end of the bar brace between my left fingertips - the left vibrates at a very different frequency to the right side which has a much higher frequency buzz.... overall all I recollect now is the left bar vibrate much worse than it was - the right is still terrible, but intriguingly my right hand didn't actually go numb this ride ????.... then I went a bit harder on a highway and wasn't really impressed with the change - I was really just riding to get some miles on to allow the oil to warm up so i could give it some exercise - then when I ripped it (I'd forgotten to put in S mode and the traction hit in hard). Of course not for the first time - but its first time I forgot since the I-level update... And suddenly this seems to have woken the DME from a 12 year slumber - Ever since its pulling through passed 7k rpm with a vigour its not had previously - and I'm even getting some air under full throttle in 2nd as it revs out - (something it never managed previously)

All rather odd and confusing - either it got an engine ECU update but its been ignoring change till friday's heavy traction control intervention made it re think life - (sounds a bit far fetched even for BM's incompetent workshop procedures) or (and even more irrational), the bar brace has reduced bike vibrations till the engine knock sensors are happier ???

And the first quote in your post is for vibrations on a 2009 GSA which won't be a twin cam.
Just saying.

 

[Motormed]

My 2011 TC benefitted from a Hilltop re-map done by the previous owner and also has grip puppies fitted.
No (unpleasant) vibrations to report.

 

[Santa-2512]

New fuel pressure regulator fitted ( I have used a Quantum 4.5 bar regulator, just to richen it a touch on hard acceleration, open loop ) but we will see.
When I get a bit of spare time I will have a play with the diagnostics.
This is a 2012 TC GS which I have done over 90K miles There is the slightest vibration through the pegs at 71 to 74 true (GPS) MPH.
No vibration through the bars at all, but I have Rox anti vibration bar risers, Grip puppies, I made large stainless bar end weights that fit into the bars as well. and the fueling is sorted with AFXied`s,.
This is the best bike that I have ever riden.
I always imagined that a failing fuel pressure regulator would lower the fuel pressure not raise it. Someone could possibly explain this ?

If the fail causes a restriction in the bore, more pressure could develop as the pump would need to work harder to deliver the required volume of fuel.
Think of a hosepipe where you nip the end. Same volume of fluid up to, the restriction but more pressure as it comes out

 

[Mistacat]

I totally agree, My first thought was that the return line from the regulator was trapped and slowly getting crushed or that there was a restriction in the quick disconnect fittings.
Not sure how but the bleed to return inside the regulator must be getting restricted, If the internal spring got weak then the pressure would drop.
As the pressure slowly went up over several weeks is what i did not understand, If a bit of muck got in there the pressure would rise instantly and with 75psi of fuel pressure passing through the orifice it would clear it in time.
Don`t want to hijack this thread as it is about returning to the wonders of the Hexhead.

 

[Pukmeister]

Funny but the only thing I hated about my old Hexhead GSA was the vibes.

I tried everything I could think of to fully cure it including a remap, plugs, coils, lambdas etc but when cruising at 75-80 on the autoroutes on a tour it would make my extremities go numb through the pegs/bars. I'm convinced it was combustion related as sometimes it would run sublimely smoothly for just a few miles, putting a brief smile on my face, then go back to the vibey bitch that it was.

I'm not sure if my first 2004 Hex was buzzy at these revs as it is years since I sold it.

Having finally been seduced in to a 1250GSA HP (which is a fine bike) I find that despite its peachy smooth (and yet rattly) engine it also buzzes a bit at 75-80. Perhaps I will never find a boxer than runs nicely in this particular rev range ? Maybe one day I will grow to love my 1250 like I did my old Hexhead ??

The 1250Adv feels less confidence inspiring and more anodyne than my Hexhead was, the fancy TFT screen and phone connectivity I'm not bothered by, the ride by wire throttle feels somewhat detached rather than connected. The only real benefit is the cruise control which is hardly a deal breaker.

I would happily own another Hexhead if only it didn't vibrate/buzz through the footpegs at motorway cruising speeds.

 

[botus]

so the bits I didn't include (as I was discussing a specific issue with the TC) as I've been riding it around a fair bit and thus not touched the Hex head for more than a month coming back to it is scary...

the better smoother shifting box of the TC - I find offensive - the clunkier change of the old bike is nicer, (especially after I changed the fluid to the £10 bottle of comma stuff).

the power output of the old bike is transformational and so much better I wish I didn't own a TC, the hex puts out power where you need it and you can have more fun much more easily,

the road tyre and GS (not GSA) geometry is a much better tyre / bike set up for normal road use

I'm sure this will get lots of flak - but somehow my old GS feels twice the size to manhandle, pushing around the garage or sitting on it compared to the GSA - I haven't understood how. Its like its much heavier and much taller (GSA seat on both - although these seats are very different to each other?), my GS has aftermarket shocks both ends and a slightly longer rear shock. But that in itself isn't the story as trying to paddle the GSA backwards is tippy toes even with a 34" inside leg...

But the bigger story, oh my goodness the NVH of the old one is shocking. The later one is like a ferrairi wanting to go bang (buzzy and stressed), whereas the Hex is like a worn out cement mixer that's still going in unfathomable ways. Its pretty consistent everywhere in the rev range - however its much more aggressive but a much lower frequency.

I'm a bit worried - its worse than I remember, I was recently getting a numbness on my right hand on a 20 mile section of camera limited motorway I guess around 5k rpm on the hex - in part some I think is RSI nerve damage, too much intensive keyboard work has messed up my forearm and the vet says its not bad enough to do anything and anyway most surgery is bad news. Then after a ride before most of the points above, I decided the engine must be loose on the hex as it did this years back and they had been. But when I checked they were all FT, all I found was a bolt had fallen out from my SW motech engine bar cross brace. I replaced and believe it helped - but going back after a long lay off its a right old bag of nails...

Been riding it slower to avoid the harshness / issues on BOTH bikes - I'm finding it unpleasant to ride as hard as usual - and it seems to be all around lever positions, vibrations and getting shaken off the bars by our appalling roads - I'm finding its becoming harder to co-ordinate all the intricacies / timing of nuanced actions to get the bike to behave when pressing on at 11 tenths... to such an extent I can't be bothered. All I can do is find issues and these really only get to tolerable levels when going along like a grandad...

Whats worrying is how... a big part I'm slowly convincing myself of - its as if I'm remembering good bits of one bike and expecting the other to have it in similar conditions - but suddenly its not there - and that's a really big issue if you approached one bit of road anticipating its help. With only one bike you learn how it will behave and work around foibles - but now I have two bikes that are in many ways very similar, but they present new or different / morphing benefits and foibles mid attack, mix that in with paris dakar dunes we used to call roads and I'm getting too old for this shit...

Mind you some of the points raised has got me thinking in another direction - its still on stock fueling so maybe that's a part of the picture?

 

[Santa-2512]

Never had a problem with the Hexhead, no vibration issues at all - it was fitted with Rox risers so an up and back position

Move to the LC, and likewise no vibration issues, just the adjustment from sit up and beg to touring stance - no risers on the bars

FF to the TC and its vibey, Its getting a tad better, but the trip to Sids killed the Thumb and forefinger on my LH, they were tingling for weeks afterwards, again no risers

It could be related to body weight and angle of attack to the bars ??

Might have to get Puk to run his magic box over the throttle body's at some stage, i think that may be involved

I did a stepper reset& the adaptations, but its still there

 

[botus]

here goes PC3 back on the HEX to confuse even more... I'll be back