Deleted account 211025001
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You will be surprised at what info they can save, as Jaythro says trucks have been saving data for years and can report which gears you pull away in, average time/revs in gears, max/min revs and times in rev segments, harsh braking etc etc.
I know BMW use the same system for cars as we do (the other Munich based manufacturer) and its generic so probably the same for their bikes with CAN systems.
I would just do what you normally do if it works for you and not worry unless its bounce the rev limiter in all gears.
I know BMW use the same system for cars as we do (the other Munich based manufacturer) and its generic so probably the same for their bikes with CAN systems.
I would just do what you normally do if it works for you and not worry unless its bounce the rev limiter in all gears.
Ozkiwi
Guest
How do I run them in... in reply to Keith
Holy cow, how to put this info in without it causing an uproar from some and not being as large as a textbook.
I dont exactly use Motomans method but simular.
I was tought this method many years ago (about 30), so it may not still be as valid with todays technology. As Motoman would quickly point out.
My breakin process. (note my process, your choice if you follow it)
Firstly the first 100km's is definately the most important miles/km's any engine will do.
I try to trailer my bikes home from the Bike shop, I live in a rural area with access to some quiet roads for 'break in', so safety is not a big concern.
Setting off.
After letting the engine warm up for about 2 - 3 minutes max, I ride off gently and head out on my breakin process. This process is done in one hit, not over multiple rides. Its only 100 - 150km's max.
What I do is gently rev the engine to mid way to the redline and then totally throttle off in all gears. I must stress that for the first 20km's I use 2nd or 3rd gear, so we're not talking break neck speed here.
What I need to achieve is some constant compression on the acceleration part and full compression on the compression breaking. Each engine style has more compression braking than the other eg. Big thumper has heaps, 4 cyl has much less.
Note that during the 1st 20km's I do not accelerate hard, firm but gentle is the key here. The engine will be tight, see comment at bottom.
After 20km's or so I start accelerating a bit harder (not WOT) but still only to about half the rev range.
I do this for an extra 20km's, but in higher gears (4th & 5th) to ensure I am putting a reasonable amount of load onto the engine. Remember that I'm letting the engine use full engine breaking as well so have more or less double the breaking forces on the piston rings.
After about 50km's (depending on how hot the engine is getting) I gently rev out to just just 'under the redline' and then allow compression breaking to take me right back to just above idle. I keep doing this until 100km to 150km depending on the engine.
Some motors may still be getting quite hot (if you stop you will feel the heat coming off the engine if it seems excessive, then keep going with the breakin process. Dont rely solely on the temp gauge.
Note*
Some people say (it's too hard on the engine to expect it to pull from idle).
Use the throttle gently and allow the engine to build its revs as it is able to.
The actual forces the engine is applying to the piston rings and also all moving parts such as gearbox and in the case of shaft drive is enough to clean any burs from gears and also ensure the piston rings are forced into the sides of the piston barrel at a reasonable force.
*The below statement may or may not be true, its only what I was told.
I was told that the acceleration heats the rings as fuel is burnt, the compression braking is actually cooling the piston and rings.
I was also told that if I didnt like the bloke I was doing the breakin job for, just give it a few quick really hard sharp wraps to the redline while still cold and stationary. Quickest way known to break rings (not break in rings).
Ok so now after 100km's - 150km's, I ride the bike normally as I intend to use it for the rest of its life. For road use it might see the redline occassionaly in acceleration in lower gears, but never see's sustained revs at the rev limiter. If the bike is used for competition it probably will, but all engines that have been stripped after this breakin method have been very clean and in excellent condition. To quote Motoman, if the ngine is run in properly, it should be very clean upon future inspection internally.
I have used this method on all engine types including cars and bikes for myself and others. I have never had a mechanic drive one of my cars or ride any of my bikes and not remark about how powerful and smooth the engine feels and also how cleanly the gear changes are.
Each Company has their break in rules stated in their manual. Motoman has a huge following.
I guess how my method differs from Motomans is that instead of giving the engine a real hard breakin from no Km's, I give it a more moderate breakin initially and then start to use the engine harder after the first 40km's.
The teacher...
I was tought that the engine and drivetrain will always get quite hot through friction while bedding in and deburring. If you go out and really go really hard straight out if the crate, the temperatures can get very high, very quickly and it wont always be obvious at the temp gauge. Some engines have actually seized before the temp gauge shows the extra heat.
I was taught that this was especially so with an air cooled angine as the air cooling effect is higher at the front (wind side) of a engine barrel and hotter at the rear of the cylinder. Hence why companies such as BMW are quite specific about how to run in their air/oil cooled boxer engines.
With a water cooled engine the coolant will hopefully keep the complete cylinder cooler at a more constant rate... not always so during engine breakin though. Not everyone has the superior technology of BMW, so a rebore at the local bike shop may mean the engine may be much tighter in the piston / barrel fit and may sieze quite quickly.
Again Motoman says that this is not true due to modern technology and oils... He may be right but my method works for me and I dont have the phincter factor the whole time scared of when it will seize on me.
Footnote*
I hope this information is of some use to folk who are unsure of how they want to break in their motorcycle or even car.
You are free to make your own choice, follow the Company suppied method, use your own, follow Motoman or use the above or any combination of these.
In reality at the end of the day, you are the individual who owns the vehicle and hopefully it is you who will foot the bill for repairs if you do the wrong thing.
Hopefully it wont be the next owner, etc.
Sorry for the long, but hopefully thought provoking repy folks.
Cheers and Merry Xmas
Tony
Holy cow, how to put this info in without it causing an uproar from some and not being as large as a textbook.
I dont exactly use Motomans method but simular.
I was tought this method many years ago (about 30), so it may not still be as valid with todays technology. As Motoman would quickly point out.
My breakin process. (note my process, your choice if you follow it)
Firstly the first 100km's is definately the most important miles/km's any engine will do.
I try to trailer my bikes home from the Bike shop, I live in a rural area with access to some quiet roads for 'break in', so safety is not a big concern.
Setting off.
After letting the engine warm up for about 2 - 3 minutes max, I ride off gently and head out on my breakin process. This process is done in one hit, not over multiple rides. Its only 100 - 150km's max.
What I do is gently rev the engine to mid way to the redline and then totally throttle off in all gears. I must stress that for the first 20km's I use 2nd or 3rd gear, so we're not talking break neck speed here.
What I need to achieve is some constant compression on the acceleration part and full compression on the compression breaking. Each engine style has more compression braking than the other eg. Big thumper has heaps, 4 cyl has much less.
Note that during the 1st 20km's I do not accelerate hard, firm but gentle is the key here. The engine will be tight, see comment at bottom.
After 20km's or so I start accelerating a bit harder (not WOT) but still only to about half the rev range.
I do this for an extra 20km's, but in higher gears (4th & 5th) to ensure I am putting a reasonable amount of load onto the engine. Remember that I'm letting the engine use full engine breaking as well so have more or less double the breaking forces on the piston rings.
After about 50km's (depending on how hot the engine is getting) I gently rev out to just just 'under the redline' and then allow compression breaking to take me right back to just above idle. I keep doing this until 100km to 150km depending on the engine.
Some motors may still be getting quite hot (if you stop you will feel the heat coming off the engine if it seems excessive, then keep going with the breakin process. Dont rely solely on the temp gauge.
Note*
Some people say (it's too hard on the engine to expect it to pull from idle).
Use the throttle gently and allow the engine to build its revs as it is able to.
The actual forces the engine is applying to the piston rings and also all moving parts such as gearbox and in the case of shaft drive is enough to clean any burs from gears and also ensure the piston rings are forced into the sides of the piston barrel at a reasonable force.
*The below statement may or may not be true, its only what I was told.
I was told that the acceleration heats the rings as fuel is burnt, the compression braking is actually cooling the piston and rings.
I was also told that if I didnt like the bloke I was doing the breakin job for, just give it a few quick really hard sharp wraps to the redline while still cold and stationary. Quickest way known to break rings (not break in rings).
Ok so now after 100km's - 150km's, I ride the bike normally as I intend to use it for the rest of its life. For road use it might see the redline occassionaly in acceleration in lower gears, but never see's sustained revs at the rev limiter. If the bike is used for competition it probably will, but all engines that have been stripped after this breakin method have been very clean and in excellent condition. To quote Motoman, if the ngine is run in properly, it should be very clean upon future inspection internally.
I have used this method on all engine types including cars and bikes for myself and others. I have never had a mechanic drive one of my cars or ride any of my bikes and not remark about how powerful and smooth the engine feels and also how cleanly the gear changes are.
Each Company has their break in rules stated in their manual. Motoman has a huge following.
I guess how my method differs from Motomans is that instead of giving the engine a real hard breakin from no Km's, I give it a more moderate breakin initially and then start to use the engine harder after the first 40km's.
The teacher...
I was tought that the engine and drivetrain will always get quite hot through friction while bedding in and deburring. If you go out and really go really hard straight out if the crate, the temperatures can get very high, very quickly and it wont always be obvious at the temp gauge. Some engines have actually seized before the temp gauge shows the extra heat.
I was taught that this was especially so with an air cooled angine as the air cooling effect is higher at the front (wind side) of a engine barrel and hotter at the rear of the cylinder. Hence why companies such as BMW are quite specific about how to run in their air/oil cooled boxer engines.
With a water cooled engine the coolant will hopefully keep the complete cylinder cooler at a more constant rate... not always so during engine breakin though. Not everyone has the superior technology of BMW, so a rebore at the local bike shop may mean the engine may be much tighter in the piston / barrel fit and may sieze quite quickly.
Again Motoman says that this is not true due to modern technology and oils... He may be right but my method works for me and I dont have the phincter factor the whole time scared of when it will seize on me.
Footnote*
I hope this information is of some use to folk who are unsure of how they want to break in their motorcycle or even car.
You are free to make your own choice, follow the Company suppied method, use your own, follow Motoman or use the above or any combination of these.
In reality at the end of the day, you are the individual who owns the vehicle and hopefully it is you who will foot the bill for repairs if you do the wrong thing.
Hopefully it wont be the next owner, etc.
Sorry for the long, but hopefully thought provoking repy folks.
Cheers and Merry Xmas
Tony
gareth041
Registered user
Hi Ozkiwi,
I too have ordered a new F800 GS for March and also used to be a BMW Car Technician in a Main Dealer.
They would be able to log Max speed, Temp, Revs. They would not be able to log how many times, for how long etc. They can however look at the specific revs and then check the engine temperature it occured at.
I hope that helps, Gareth.
I too have ordered a new F800 GS for March and also used to be a BMW Car Technician in a Main Dealer.
They would be able to log Max speed, Temp, Revs. They would not be able to log how many times, for how long etc. They can however look at the specific revs and then check the engine temperature it occured at.
I hope that helps, Gareth.
Ran my 1200 in with the Motoman method and have had 37k of trouble free miles and NO oil burn.
Not as specific as Ozkiwi`s but it worked well. I did change the oil at 300 miles as well to make sure any crap was out.
Should work with the 800
Not as specific as Ozkiwi`s but it worked well. I did change the oil at 300 miles as well to make sure any crap was out.
Should work with the 800
mystic
Registered user
Expect to being removing both wheels next weekend to do a tyre change.
Just to clarify ...... if both axles are 'quick release' (whatever that means!) exactly HOW is the axle removed after the nut on the opposite end has been removed!
and just why are people like Nippy Norman and Motorworks selling 'Thingy' Hex bits described as being required to remove the wheels?
Am I missing something here .........or what? .....
everywherevirtually
Registered user
Expect to being removing both wheels next weekend to do a tyre change.
Just to clarify ...... if both axles are 'quick release' (whatever that means!) exactly HOW is the axle removed after the nut on the opposite end has been removed!
and just why are people like Nippy Norman and Motorworks selling 'Thingy' Hex bits described as being required to remove the wheels?
Am I missing something here .........or what? .....
Good question as I'm about to do the same. The hex bolt is required to fit into the hex recess on the left if you are facing the bike. As a quick test I removed the right hand bolt and then started rotating the hex thingy on the left. The axle kept turning and turning without any noticeable change in it rotating itself out. Then I vaguely remembered seeing mondo enduro where they changed a wheel and I'm sure the axle bolt was knocked out on their suzuki's? At that point I felt I better not venture further until consulting a higher authority.
The manual just says remove the axle which is not exactly informative.
BM_donator
Registered user
Took both of my wheels off a couple of months ago.
Bought said thingys (different sizes front and rear!) as it seemed obvious they would be needed.
They weren't.
The front axle is gripped by clamp bolts anyway (as shown in the manual).
Just loosen the nuts and knock the axles through. (I could push mine through)
No problems refitting either. Seems when the nut is tightened there's enough grip on the other side for the axle not to spin - even at the high torque setting stated in the manual.
PS.
For sale - two thingys
Bought said thingys (different sizes front and rear!) as it seemed obvious they would be needed.
They weren't.
The front axle is gripped by clamp bolts anyway (as shown in the manual).
Just loosen the nuts and knock the axles through. (I could push mine through)
No problems refitting either. Seems when the nut is tightened there's enough grip on the other side for the axle not to spin - even at the high torque setting stated in the manual.
PS.
For sale - two thingys
shag
Registered user
ok what are things???
I've repaired 3 puntures in front.
Never used any Thingys to push out axle bar! undo 4 axle nuts and push or bash axle bar out. Simple.
also sijohnston (quote ) i changed the tyres on my bike yesterday and had a torrid time trying to get the back wheel in ..
I had the same probs with the back 1st time around now all i do is give the wheel a good wiggle to loosen the brake pads apart and it just slips back in when fiinised.
PS Anyone used or thinking of using the elephant skin inner tubes?
are they any good?
I've repaired 3 puntures in front.
Never used any Thingys to push out axle bar! undo 4 axle nuts and push or bash axle bar out. Simple.
also sijohnston (quote ) i changed the tyres on my bike yesterday and had a torrid time trying to get the back wheel in ..
I had the same probs with the back 1st time around now all i do is give the wheel a good wiggle to loosen the brake pads apart and it just slips back in when fiinised.
PS Anyone used or thinking of using the elephant skin inner tubes?
are they any good?
nikp
Registered user
Thingy
I too bought a thingy in anticipation of changing my tyres this year for something a bit more knobbly -
I was thinking over the weekend, coming from jap sports bikes 'n all, do we need to consider balancing the wheels when chaning the tyres?. I notice there is some weights on the wheels but they seem to be directly opposed to the innertube valve so are they just to counter that?
Or do I worry too much
I too bought a thingy in anticipation of changing my tyres this year for something a bit more knobbly -
I was thinking over the weekend, coming from jap sports bikes 'n all, do we need to consider balancing the wheels when chaning the tyres?
. I notice there is some weights on the wheels but they seem to be directly opposed to the innertube valve so are they just to counter that?Or do I worry too much
mystic
Registered user
Good question as I'm about to do the same. The manual just says remove the axle which is not exactly informative.
and the 'manual' (if you can describe it as a manual!
) says absolutely nothing about using a Hex piece to do this! Took both of my wheels off a couple of months ago.
Bought said thingys (different sizes front and rear!) as it seemed obvious they would be needed.
They weren't.
The front axle is gripped by clamp bolts anyway (as shown in the manual).
Just loosen the nuts and knock the axles through. (I could push mine through)
No problems refitting either. Seems when the nut is tightened there's enough grip on the other side for the axle not to spin - even at the high torque setting stated in the manual.
PS.
For sale - two thingys
Thanks BM donator ........ good to have confirmation of what I somehow half expected!
As for your two 'thingys' ........ don't know what you paid for them, but in your position I'd be more than tempted to return them both to the supplier accompanied by a strongly-worded letter asking why they're selling unnecessary items to their customers!
BM_donator
Registered user
To be fair, they were cheap fleaBay jobs - I think the £1.99 postage was more!
They do make useful paperweights though
Maybe if Norm scans these forums though he could amend his 800GS web pages to save someone making an £8 mistake??
(Additional - while you're there, also remove the Philips Stop/Tail lights that say they are "fully interchangeable with the standard bulb". We've all got LED Stop/Tail lights)
Last edited:
BM_donator
Registered user
I too bought a thingy in anticipation of changing my tyres this year for something a bit more knobbly -
I was thinking over the weekend, coming from jap sports bikes 'n all, do we need to consider balancing the wheels when chaning the tyres?
Or do I worry too much
I watched the guy who fitted my new tyres, he did balance the wheels fitting new weights about 10mm from the old ones - although still roughly opposite the valves.
If bimbling about on mud tracks and lanes, I'm sure this imbalance would not have been noticeable.
Touring through France fully loaded at naughty miles an hour, it would.
sijohnston
Registered user
Shag, thanks for this. That was some time ago. Wheel been off several times since and it's no bother now. It literally takes a few minutes to take both wheels off and put them both back on. Regarding tubes, I had a delivery of 3 continental spares yesterday. Back tube has 2 puncture repairs now, so is being shown the skip tomorrow. Borrowing some tyre levers but need to procure me a set asap. Tubes were £12 a hit front and back from tyresalesuk.co.uk
mccallum
Guest
I was looking at the rear wheel, and though I might have to pull off the calliper first (probably should have read this thead first), found a rubber bush on the calliper and unfortunately pulled it off, but can't put it back on. Anyone also done this, and is the only way to fix to remove wheel and rear calliper?
BM_donator
Registered user
Correct, the caliper will only come off with the wheel removed as it slides off towards the wheel.
mccallum
Guest
Thanks for that, took the back wheel off, and dismantle the rear calliper to put the rubber bush back in.
Have been accumulating my tools, but not sure where to store them on the bike, where does everyone put them?
Michael
Have been accumulating my tools, but not sure where to store them on the bike, where does everyone put them?
Michael
Over on ADVRider (I can't find the thread right now) there are some pictures of a tool kit that comes in two roll-up bags and without TOO much trouble the bags fit in the crevasses under the seat -- only works if you do NOT have the alarm system installed.
Jim
Jim
It's this one - referenced on this site too somewhere - http://www.advdesigns.net/f800gstoolkit.html
Greggers
Registered user
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Why??
I've often wondered why some say two repairs and the tube is junk...
I've got a rear tube on my KTM (serious green laner..!) that has got 5 or 6 repairs on it ... it still stays up, has never lost a patch and has never been punctured in the same place twice...
Greg
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