► Steering head Bearings

[Malcolm Leick]

Greggers is there a breakdown of how the job is done anywhere??

The bearings themselves don't seem that expensive. Its the labour cost that knock up the price. Do you know what part number I would quote to a local stockist?

 

[rc mad]

you lot need to start checking out maxbmw parts fiches, tapered bearing size for a f650 (twin) is 28X52X16, bmw part number is 07119985070.

click this link that'll take you to the max bmw parts fiche, then click on 31-front suspension in the top menu then click on the lower right drawing that shows the triples, item number 4 in the list that pops up is the bearings

You'll also need to get the steel caps that sit under the bearings, if it's anything like my dakar those get buggered up when you drift the old bearings off, bmw part number for those are 31421234509

buy the parts from motorworks, they are about right on price, checking the dimension over on simply bearings gives prices from £14 to £30 per bearing


Not too hard of a job to do if you have the tools to drive the old bearings off the stem and the outer races off. It is pretty time consuming because the entire front end has to come apart, hence the £170 price tag from bmw.

I was quoted around the same price when the dak went in for a recall a couple of years ago. "By the way sir your front tyre tread is low and the steering head bearings need replacing, the steering head bearings will be £170 to replace" i said sod that i'll do it my self and buy a set of tyres for the same price


Don't know what the procedure for re- tightening the bearings on the new f650 is but on the dakar it requires a special tool or it did till i did a front end swap.

Do a bit more research into what you'll need to complete the job then make the decision if it needs a special tool you could be out of luck unless you can beg borrow or make one.

Shame i'm busy the next few weekends, you could have popped up here and i'd have done them for you, maybe next time

 

[GunZenBomZ]

Soon to be on my 3rd head stock bearing. Also had a headlamp cracked across it, seen 2 others in exact same area across face of main beam 2 hi-beam side. Always have my headlamp protected now.

Feebay for cheap F800 headlamp (lucky if one is on auction),..or £246 from bmw otherwise.

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Thanks guys. I've ordered the bearings from Motorworks as unlike BMW, they have them on the shelf. I'll have a think about whether I fit them myself or not.

Re the cost of lamp...bloody hell! Why on earth can't the glass just be replaced?

I've put my name on a waiting list for a lamp at Motorworks. If anyone spots anything on fleabay, let e know!

 

[Dean]

Thanks guys. I've ordered the bearings from Motorworks as unlike BMW, they have them on the shelf. I'll have a think about whether I fit them myself or not.

Re the cost of lamp...bloody hell! Why on earth can't the glass just be replaced?

I've put my name on a waiting list for a lamp at Motorworks. If anyone spots anything on fleabay, let e know!

Glad your getting sorted Malcolm

maybe for later .. http://www.ruggedroads.com/shop/art...lycarbonate.html?shop_param=cid=44&aid=8003P&

and you can even fit over that, one of thoes tad pretentious metal Guards as they work together

i have a fair bit of pretentious on my bike, I mean protection it was described to me by another as my Insurance

 

[Tim Cullis]

Wide choice of tapered head bearings from Wemoto
http://www.wemoto.com/parts/bearings_tapered/

 

[kalli]

SKF part number is: 320/28 X/Q
NSK part number is: HR320/28XJ
You have to buy a pair same size at both ends.

I replaced them yesterday, it took me an afternoon since it was my first time doing it.

 

[kalli]

Kalli ...

Any 'special BMW technique' for setting the bearings? I've heard there is, but my previous experience with TRBs is a lot simpler ...

G

No.
There are two small holes to punch the lower bearing loose from the shaft.
I used normal "Pin punch set". Any pin close to 3mm and a hammer will do.

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Head bearing problems

Following my last post on this subject I bought the bearings from Motorworks and got BMW to fit them. BUT when I go over any kind of bumps there is a distinct 'knock' in the steering column. I can feel the up/down movement and hear a clunk.

I have taken it back to BMW twice for adjustment. The second time they said that if anything the bearings were overtightened and slackened them off a bit. The steering itself is fine, its the 'knock' and movement which is worrying. I'm going to take it back again but the engineer took it for a ride last time and couldn't come up with a solution. I checked the bearing number on the supply note and it matches what's on the Motorworks web site for the 650 twin/800. Scratching my head on this one.

Any ideas?

 

[ghiribizzo]

If you were round the corner I'd have a look.
They are only head bearings FFS - take it to a competant M/C tech. and get it checked.
Let's imagine for a moment the bearings are installed perfectly correctly. You say the 'engineer' took it for a test ride and couldn't come up with a solution.
What?
Why can the engineer not solve it. Did they say it needed head bearings? Did you think that they needed replaced Malcolm?
If, for example, there is a problem inside the forks then why can they not diagnose it? Doesn't sound like they know what's what but we could all sit and say it's x y z without seeing it...

 

[Malcolm Leick]

They said the head bearings needed replacing at the last service a couple of weeks ago. Although there was some play it was only noticeable when I was turning into corners. Now I can feel it every time I go over a small bump or under heavy braking. If it is the forks I can't understand why it's only become apparent since they changed the bearings. Bloody annoying!

 

[GunZenBomZ]

Bike on center stand, then take weight off front wheel (wedge under engine guard area). You shouldn't be able to pull the bottom forks backwards or forwards much. Can you test this possible play out?

Do not end up crushed/wedged underneath an F800 all night due to this post! Have help at hand

 

[ghiribizzo]

If it's that noticeable then there's something well wrong. Can you get the bike so the front wheel is off the ground - check for movement fore-aft. Is there any notchiness as you s-l-o-w-l-y turn the forks from lock to lock.
Any bike shop should be able to check that. If you are not sure about what it is - surely you must have a bike mot place nearby? Get them to check it.
I'd put money on the dealer screwing up fitting them. I'd expect you're going to need another new set to hand so that a competant tech can fit them. If the ones fitted are loose they are knackered already.
Look at this - newly fitted but loose bearings will be hammered mostly front and back as the steering assembly crashes back and forth under braking and over bumps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...ng_(Montagu,_Cars_and_Motor-Cycles,_1928).jpg

But jeez - any decent bike shop should be able to diagnose this. Is there not a GSER locally that is experienced in building bikes?

Bet you need another set of bearings though...

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Thanks guys. I'm on an IAM ride out tomorrow and I'll get someone to have a look. I just jacked up the front end and there is no obvious notchiness or play. Mysterious!

 

[kalli]

Dear all (and Greggers)

posted a question a couple of months ago with a problem with my 800GS, steering felt very light and bike would drop/flop into corners.

As always some good feedback from the site, possible loose headstock bearings and a square tyre.

I have repalced both tyres and had the bearing checked at my BMW dealer, they needed adjusting but were not loose.

Problem still exists and has driven me to look at a 1200GS

Anyone had the same problem?

Do I replace the bearings with BMW or better ones? I miss the handling the bike use to have.

Any feedabck welcome

bike is a 2008 14,000 miles and FSH

many thanks

Tim

Same thing happended to me. In my case replacing the bearings solved this. The lower sleve had some wear marks in it and it interrupted the steering.

I used SKF bearings, here are the part numbers for SKF and NSK.

SKF part number is: 320/28 X/Q
NSK part number is: HR320/28XJ
You have to buy a pair same size at both ends

Karl

 

[Richie3264]

yeah Ive had a similar feeling, very light at the front especially two up or with the panniers on (vario ones - empty)

found if I wound the rear shock up quite alot it helped a great deal.

still a great bike

 

[tim dew]

Tim ...

Sorry I didn't reply earlier ... UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BUY A 1200!!
I have cast this from my mind..

Ok - is this 'floatiness' what we would normally call a weave? If your bearings are notched, then the steering will be forced into one particular position by the rollers sitting in the wear notches, and it's this apparent 'stiffness' that can cause a weave because the subtle inputs you constantly make to correct your course are efffectively negated,and the extra effort you have to make to compensate can cause an over-reaction and hey-presto we have a weave going on.

The other way that completely shagged bearings can affect the steering is by letting the steering stem wobble because it's not firmly controlled and held in position by the bearings. Again, this causes an instability in the steering because your input isn't predictably correcting the bikes direction, more a question of it doing - within a very small parameter though - whatever it wants.. Usually this will manifest itself as a WOBBLE, or a more rapid oscillation of the handlebars.

Ok, now's the confusing bit... wobble can also be caused by tyres and some tyre profiles just wobble at certain roadspeeds (my old ST1100 on BT021s would waggle and shake at 25mph and no hands... ) and this can also be an indicator of works or knackered wheelbearings - see below...

Low tyre pressure at the front can cause a vagueness in steering at speed, and make low speed turning a b!tch.

TP 32 front 36 rear , perhaps a bit low?

Knackered or worn front wheel bearings can have
Good head bearings that are set too tight (ie that don't allow the steering to rotate freely enough) can cause a weave ...as I remember only too well when I would up the rotary steering damper on my old YR5 on a windy road just to see what it would do ... skidmarks of the non-tyre variety!

no weave felt

So ....

If the AD's checked the bearings and declared them ok, the chances are they're ok but if it were me here's what I'd do just to check ...

Park the bike on the centre stand, then enlist the held of a large friend to sit on the bike and hold the back of the bike down and the steering straight ahead.. Kneel in front of the bike with the wheel between (ish) your knees and hold the bottom of each forkleg. Try to pull them backwards and forwards - any misadjustment of the bearing will be revealed with a clunk that you may be able to hear and / or feel as the steering stems rocks between the cups of the bearing. This is bearing slack and can be adjusted out. However, tightening the bearing may well reveal the next problem - see below!

My son acting as large friend, only just lifted wheel off ground, ok no movement backwards or forward.

The next check to make is to ask your able and fat assistant to let go of the 'bars but to keep leaning back. The bars should rotate easily and freely throughout their travel. If the bearings are notched, you'll feel it as the bearings roll over the indents in the cups - oddly in a very notchy way! You'll also probably find that the bearings will have a definite notch in the straight ahead position - remember the weave thing I mentioned a bit earlier...? If you feel this then the head bearings are sh@gged and need replacing.

Bars roated freely, no notchs felt

Now for the wheel. Get Fatso to firmly apply full lock while the wheel's still off the ground. Sit yourself alongside the wheel (you'll know which side to be on...) and give it a little spin. You're listening for any grinding noise other than the little "shussh shussh" of the discs (again you'll know it if you hear it) or perhaps even a rumbling. You can even put your finger on the spindle to see if you can feel any rumble/vibration. If you can hear/feel anything then the bearings are rough and are well on their way out.

Only the "shussh shussh" of the discs

Now hold the wheel like a steering wheel - at 2:45 or a quarter to three (you choose!) Now push one side and pull the other, do it again at 11:30 - this will reveal any lateral wear in the bearing and if you find it ... the bearing is f*cked ...

no movement here

I think there's a 'how-to' for bearing replacement somewhere...

Useful?

G

So no I am doubt myself Dr Greggers, It feels like a pendulum effect, first 10-15 degrees ok then it drops into a corner/

Any further thoughts welcomed

Thanks

Tim

 

[Greggers]

Tim -

Have you had new tyres on recently or are the tyres well worn? If you have squared the tyre through lots of straight line motoring then they'll have 'shoulders' which will exaggerate the transition from vertical into the lean...

The other thing I remember was when I swapped over from Bridgstones to my Heidis the difference in the way the bike 'fell' into corners was staggering... It took a good few miles to get used to the difference - the Bridgstones needed a lot more effort to steer and always wanted to sit the bike up, whereas the Heidis have very neutral steering and tip into corners really really quickly...

G

 

[TheJoker]

Have you tried winding on a bit more preload on the rear damper and perhaps a bit more damping? Wrong suspension setup can have weird effects on weird places on the bike.

 

[tim dew]

Greggers

I have changed the tyres recently to Metzler Tourances, I did find the original Bridgetsones a better tyre out of the two makes. As you say they do not drop into corners as quickly.
As we have eliminated the steering and wheel bearings then perhaps this is just the feel of the Tourances and I will have to adapt myself.

Suspension wise my preload is at almost the max setting.

Appreciate your efforts with my questions.

Thanks

Tim