1100 gearbox output seal replacement

[MattW]

My 1100 has been suffering from a gearbox oil leak (see here: http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179505 ) which was depositing oil on my back tyre (not ideal). All symptoms pointed to an output seal leak which in conjunction with a displaced gearbox to swingarm bellows, was allowing oil to leak onto the back of the gearbox casting and from there fly backwards in the airstream onto the tyre. Under normal circumstances a slight weep from the output seal would be contained in the swingarm, but in my case it was getting out and being a nuisance and as its impossible to refit the bellows without removing the swingarm, I figured I might as well do a proper job and take the swingarm off for a look / seal replacement as necessary.

I took pictures along the way so I could remember how it all fitted together and was joined by my mate Phil(zafuka) who provided moral support / help and took more pictures. I thought I might as well make a thread out of them in case anyone else needs to do this job. For the most part I followed the clymer manual for the disassembly together with stuff I read on the forum. However the clymer says that seal replacement is a dealer job...

Bike positioned for access to the required bits and strapped to a purlin in the garage, just in case :

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/awBLwQFFSTtRqrVWrqN3cw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTxiy1NgI/AAAAAAAABZA/ppvpD4J6R38/s800/0.JPG" /></a>

As I wanted to check the paralever bearings too, it means removing the FD first. Look at that corrosion - could almost be a 1200 :

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aGOBQ9L_zK41DE9f7hG3Ww?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTkVMNEvI/AAAAAAAABWo/87ShHvULHJs/s800/h0.JPG" /></a>

Remove the rear brake calliper and tie it up out of the way:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WNVpzL4aoh4VT6ygEkS1dQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdU2YO3EpI/AAAAAAAABdY/a8djy4YB72c/s800/IMG_4320.JPG" /></a>

Then remove the daft plastic mudguard and wheel. Take a look at the big FD oil seal and smile when you see that it's bone dry :

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/E3I0rebn6xuymMOyszPFSA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdU0KxElBI/AAAAAAAABdQ/4KLlwseJ7EE/s800/IMG_4321.JPG" /></a>

Remove the shock and support the swingarm and remove the ABS sensor, tying it up out of the way with the calliper (take care to retain the shims) :

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/r2j9IVXZRCTropZ8kA5x6Q?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdUxcAWBSI/AAAAAAAABdE/jTYMHFhVt84/s800/IMG_4322.JPG" /></a>

This is the locknut and adjustable pinion which you'll need to remove first (the other side is non-adjustable and has no locknut). They are fastened in to a high torque and use high strength loctite. You need to heat the nut with a hot air gun to 120 C in order to soften the loctite. I read all the dire warnings about making sure that it's heated enough and it takes a surprisingly long time to get it up to temp (not having a surface thermometer, I kept dabbing it with water - when it boiled off vigorously, I tried a socket on it).

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KdSaK17GQ2FtyPEK1DXlBA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdUvNOwSVI/AAAAAAAABc8/ftaf8da8Ef4/s800/IMG_4323.JPG" /></a>

With the adjustable pinion out, heat the right hand non-adjustable pinion and remove:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rYj6Rw8p-ir6RR82Lp30bw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTpl4uOvI/AAAAAAAABXk/yrlpM_xs43I/s800/3.JPG" /></a>

Right hand pinion together with half the taper roller paralever bearing:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dsPoxci0aFlI77xc11yfPw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTpFkZ6BI/AAAAAAAABXc/ha5aq9gCuws/s800/4.JPG" /></a>

Hmm, nicely brinnelled (sp?) and the outer face is galled - add a set of paralever bearings to the shopping list:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dOf9boKQwvNbM1nN7NBNiQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdT1LaKCOI/AAAAAAAABZQ/rQroQGPG2P4/s800/IMG_4348.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/znc3Jbq76tCUmXKZ3__fRA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdT25m9P6I/AAAAAAAABZc/3Vt4fV-lfVo/s800/IMG_4347.JPG" /></a>

With both pinions out, it's just a case of removing the torque arm bolt (counter to what the manual said, I left it in place finger tight to hold things together) and withdrawing the FD:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2TIUSr0JSypy1_lkZvaVHw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTnlgd3bI/AAAAAAAABXM/hN35BvWemX8/s800/6.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cDCmNoMTo28inC7-YNWang?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTnIjWfJI/AAAAAAAABXE/R9VGGCAS11Y/s800/7.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZrLHR8ZYmGSkHl86dWUcVQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTmdIKzGI/AAAAAAAABW4/NKOxwSpkCoE/s800/8.JPG" /></a>

Take a moment to look pleased with yourself and then put the FD to one side (taking care to keep it upright):

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/s5jO8HOI76mtMCpOExn_xw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTl313x3I/AAAAAAAABWw/rhN9DQLzzOo/s800/9.JPG" /></a>

All splines look good (the ring blobs is grease flung off the UJ):

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/73Vgub5iVS40ljHNje7IeQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTwLWpwvI/AAAAAAAABYw/usNvU_iD0xI/s800/10.JPG" /></a>

Then remove the footrests to allow access to the swingarm pivots (which are arranged just the same as the paralever pivots) and do the same heating / removing operation. Don't do what I did and let the brake master cylinder piston half fall out of the cylinder - any idea how I refit it?

With the pinions removed, the swingarm withdraws leaving the drive shaft attached to the output shaft:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/E2cgrozFaxhZxKqR_hn3tg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTu4fXw5I/AAAAAAAABYg/6YgzBEg_5_s/s800/12.JPG" /></a>

The swingarm to gearbox bellows which allowed oil to drip down the rear face of the gearbox (new bellows on the shopping list):

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EAs6UbpPxHDW3NR4KNP0ZQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTHyECUCI/AAAAAAAABVQ/olY9md6JurE/s800/matt-00.jpg" /></a>

The drive shaft just pulls off the gearbox output shaft. It's retained by a snap ring so needs a fairly smart 'jerk'

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xjCau9d77xHBoc2pHOwuUw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTt3eeU3I/AAAAAAAABYU/NH6gbCIWtVs/s800/13.JPG" /></a>

And eureka - a leaking shaft seal (new seal on the shopping list):

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/n0G9NO8DAnNrVK5ZSE3pUg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdUKn0WThI/AAAAAAAABao/CR5F_sGqvdQ/s800/IMG_4339.JPG" /></a>

Now for the tricky bit.
The manual says 'take to a dealer' if gearbox seals need replacing (it also says they can only be fitted from inside the gearbox). However I read on here that the seal can be removed by very carefully drilling and screwing two self tappers into the steel reinforcing ring on the seal which allow you to pull it with some needle nosed pliers. I practiced on some scrap sheet steel first to get the right diameter drill bit and screw. Centre punch it first and be very careful when drilling - the steel ring is thin and you don't want to go through it and into the bearing behind. You are also very close to the shaft and bearing housing. Not being sure if the seal bottomed in a housing, I measured its insertion depth first (2.45mm below the lip of the seal housing).

Drilling the seal:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0ylzlAcD2cGaxCi0eLWxzw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTGtQKC4I/AAAAAAAABVA/xw8Jx8LpBDM/s800/matt-02.jpg" /></a>

Self tappers installed:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OttIy6CacrRUcsPv_l1gww?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTGfETT3I/AAAAAAAABU4/nK0QhI7t2Hk/s800/matt-03.jpg" /></a>

And after a few moments careful wrestling out it comes. Take another moment to look pleased with yourself and then get a celebratory beer :

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SGa_X-05smD3Y9Tv7wwNGw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTFBB0BNI/AAAAAAAABUw/dLxLp8E_y4Y/s800/matt-04.jpg" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/VMavS4IFT6MQ8nYb3P2PRA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScdTE8mA06I/AAAAAAAABUo/9dwyeulKWq4/s800/matt-05.jpg" /></a>

And that's the story so far. Now I need to order the bits, clean everything up and put it back together. I'll take more pics as I go.

Question...
1994, 34000 mile 1100 - would you replace the gear position and neutral switches while it's apart? And would you replace the swing arm bearings? (they feel ok, but I haven't cleaned them up properly for a good check yet)

 

[(RIP) ugg]

My 1100 has been suffering from a gearbox oil leak (see here: http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179505 ) which was depositing oil on my back tyre (not ideal). All symptoms pointed to an output seal leak which in conjunction with a displaced gearbox to swingarm bellows, was allowing oil to leak onto the back of the gearbox casting and from there fly backwards in the airstream onto the tyre. Under normal circumstances a slight weep from the output seal would be contained in the swingarm, but in my case it was getting out and being a nuisance and as its impossible to refit the bellows without removing the swingarm, I figured I might as well do a proper job and take the swingarm off for a look / seal replacement as necessary.

I took pictures along the way so I could remember how it all fitted together and was joined by my mate Phil(zafuka) who provided moral support / help and took more pictures. I thought I might as well make a thread out of them in case anyone else needs to do this job. For the most part I followed the clymer manual for the disassembly together with stuff I read on the forum. However the clymer says that seal replacement is a dealer job...

And that's the story so far. Now I need to order the bits, clean everything up and put it back together. I'll take more pics as I go.


QUOTE SNIPPED TO MAKE FOR EASIER READING
Bill

price the switches up. if ye can afford em, buy new, ye can always sell the old switch or keep as a spare.

as for swing arm bearings, check em , ye seem competent at what yer doing, inspect the internals then make yer decision , all depends on how much cash ye got, and the assurance that ye have new parts fitted.


are ye gona drift the output shaft seal back in with a suitable sized socket to get it home?

ps its compulsory when doing these info post ye wear a frock (nice rubber gloves tho)

dont forget to check yer torque settings on yer pivot bolts

good write up feller

ugg

 

[D6]

fek me ugg, did u have to repeat the pics again?, im gettin travel sickness

 

[(RIP) ugg]

fek me ugg, did u have to put the pics on again?

wot pics

 

[motobiker]

fek me ugg, did u have to put the pics on again?

you just have to laugh. (and I did)

 

[Gundog]

Hey.....some good pics there Matt.

That photographer is Fcukin Fantastic...........Ain't I

 

[MattW]

Just started to clean up some bits and noticed this on the fixed paralever pin:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QYGeApJd4sZr46UMKRiHIg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScfFUaRrf7I/AAAAAAAABhM/7VoI0vAEj-w/s800/IMG_4351.JPG" /></a>

it matches the galling on the brinneled bearing:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/und9WHfa013kBdJx90CVoA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_SSn2CtCOKnU/ScfFWDxp2WI/AAAAAAAABhU/ldrG7n4rwLs/s800/IMG_4363.JPG" /></a>

Looks like the brinneled bearing has locked solid and has been spinning on the fixed pin, thus knackering the surface - it's lost about 0.2mm on the diameter and the bearing is a sloppy graunchy fit - I'd better add a new (or good second hand) pin to the shopping list

Just out of interest, anyone seen this before?

 

[MattW]

Another question if I may?

I've got a tube of Honda Moly60 paste which I'm intending to use on the driveshaft splines, but can anyone tell me what grease is recommended for paralever / swingarm bearings and drive shaft UJ's? (And how do you effectively grease a UJ?...)

many thanks
Matt

 

[Deleted account 111026]

I had a bevel box/swinging arm pivot bearing fail on my 1100GS just after I bought it, it hadn't been fitted with any Loctite and this enabled it to unscrew itself about 6mm as it was unscrewing rather than the bearing rotating.
I lubricate the new bearings with Castrol LM grease.
When re-fitting, I use Loctite 248, I fit the pivots first, and adjust the left one until torqued correctly, then I leave it overnight for the Loctite to set, then I Loctite, fit and torque the locknut. This prevents the pivot rotating, afterwards I draw a fine line across the pivots and the swinging arm to check for movement, (or lack of).
Good write-up.

 

[MattW]

I had a bevel box/swinging arm pivot bearing fail on my 1100GS just after I bought it, it hadn't been fitted with any Loctite and this enabled it to unscrew itself about 6mm as it was unscrewing rather than the bearing rotating.
I lubricate the new bearings with Castrol LM grease.
When re-fitting, I use Loctite 248, I fit the pivots first, and adjust the left one until torqued correctly, then I leave it overnight for the Loctite to set, then I Loctite, fit and torque the locknut. This prevents the pivot rotating, afterwards I draw a fine line across the pivots and the swinging arm to check for movement, (or lack of).

Thanks for the input MotoGS - this is the procedure I was going to use (as I don't have the special tool) - good to know I was on the right track

 

[MattW]

Yay!
I've just finished bolting it all back together and everything appears to be working as it should.

Thanks for the advice

cheers
Matt

 

[B4ndit]

Old thread I know. But Matt can you enlighten me on the procedure for fitting the new seal. You've covered everything else comprehensively.

Any special tools or techniques for fitting the new seal?

 

[waterloo700]

Nice thread. You said you experimented to get the right drill and self tapper sizes to drill and pull the seal - care to share your findings?

 

[MattW]

Old thread I know. But Matt can you enlighten me on the procedure for fitting the new seal. You've covered everything else comprehensively.

Any special tools or techniques for fitting the new seal?

Not really any special technique for refitting the seal. I wrapped the splines in cling film so that they didn't damage the new seal as it passed over them, slid the seal onto the shaft and then used a tubular drift (a piece of waste pipe if I remember correctly) to drive the seal carefully into its housing. You need to be careful to drive it square and to the right depth (it's a bottomless housing, so it doesn't sit against a step) - measure the depth of the old seal before you remove it.

Nice thread. You said you experimented to get the right drill and self tapper sizes to drill and pull the seal - care to share your findings?

To be honest, I can't remember the size of the self tapper. I just bought a selection of small ones and picked a little one that looked like it would do the job. I tried out a few drills in scrap to work out the best size for the self tapper.

 

[B4ndit]

Its something I might have to do in the near future. Oil in the drive shaft housing.

I take it the 1150 is the same procedure?

 

[MattW]

I take it the 1150 is the same procedure?

Yep

 

[B4ndit]

Inspirational article.

I noticed a black smear down the paralever running from the rubber boot. When I pulled it off about 1 teaspoon of oily fluid came out. Cleaned it all up. No oil lost from either FD or GB on inspecting them.

Went for a 50 mile ride today and no oil in the dive shaft. Something (else) I need to check regularly on the old girl. I will get a seal when the dealers open and then repair at my leasure or if it suddenly gets worse.

 

[MattW]

Inspirational article.

I noticed a black smear down the paralever running from the rubber boot. When I pulled it off about 1 teaspoon of oily fluid came out. Cleaned it all up. No oil lost from either FD or GB on inspecting them.

Went for a 50 mile ride today and no oil in the dive shaft. Something (else) I need to check regularly on the old girl. I will get a seal when the dealers open and then repair at my leasure or if it suddenly gets worse.

A slight weep into the fd boot is by all accounts nothing to worry about - many people have noticed a spoonful of oil or so in the boot occasionally, with no ill effects.

As you say, just monitor it.

 

[Steptoe]

.

I take it the 1150 is the same procedure?

Almost - but no need to remove the footrest hangers, the 1150 hangers have access holes, you can leave the cat in place and only need remove the silencer.
Although if you Y piece fitted you can leave the whole exhaust system in place .

 

[B4ndit]

Cheers Steptoe.

I guessed I wouldn't have to remove the Cat or foot hangers.

Are the front Pivot pins loctited in the same as the rear Pivot Pins?