1100 head gasket / exhaust studs

[MattW]

My new (to me) '94 1100 has a weep from the left side head gasket - I bought the bike knowing about the problem, but I want to change it as after the 80 mile ride home my left boot is nicely waterproof!

Reading Steptoe's how-to and the Clymer manual, it looks to be reasonably straightforward, but my exhaust studs / nuts are just blobs of rust - major stud breakage is probably inevitable.

As the head has to be removed anyway, I'll probably take it to a local engineering shop (highly recommended by several friends) to have the studs removed / replaced.

If I might ask a couple of questions from those who've been here before...

I was thinking of using stainless replacement studs and brass nuts to try and make sure it doesn't happen again - is this worthwhile?

While it's in bits, would it be worth changing the non-leaking cylinder head too? (Obviously if all the exhaust studs on the non-leaking side snap, then I'll have to remove the head to get them replaced, so the decision is made for me).

I'm a firm believer in not fixing what aint broke, but is there anything else worth doing while the head(s) are off?

many thanks

Matt

 

[motobiker]

Brass nuts should certainly help.. with a dab of moly grease. I seem to remember somebody metioning threadlock in a past post. and/or loosening em off then retightening after a good run once a year.

 

[davegs]

head bolts

Just use coper slip don't try brass nuts these are stressed components if you feel it's necessary take them off every couple of years but it's obviously be subject to major neglect to get in that state.
Dave (I hate christmas )GS.

 

[MattW]

Thanks for the replies guys

Conflicting views regarding brass nuts - wouldn't have thought they are that stressed?

The 'been subject to major neglect' slur is a bit unfair on the previous owner I feel - more like never having been subject to an exhaust removal in its 14 years. I know mine is far from the only 1100 to suffer from exhaust stud corrosion and the rest of the bike actually shows evidence of major 'looking after'

 

[motobiker]

of course they're not stressed... apart from being in a very vulnerable (to the weather and road) position.. there seems to be a question on here almost every month from some owner who has some sort of problem with these studs. major neglect?? major nonsense.

I didn't suggest copper slip because they will get very hot.. so a high temp grease will in the long term be a much better idea. but copper slip is better than nothing.

On my bike a previous owner replaced the bolts with stainless steel jobbies.

 

[Voyager]

While it's in bits, would it be worth changing the non-leaking cylinder head too?
Matt

I would be inclined to do both heads at the same time. It shouldn't double the cost if the Engineers are doing both at the same time and then you know exactly where you are with it.

I would check the exhaust valve guides for wear while the heads are off - though I believe they are not as prone to wear as the 'Airhead' motors.

What's the mileage on the bike ?


Bob.

 

[davegs]

Nuts

of course they're not stressed... apart from being in a very vulnerable (to the weather and road) position.. there seems to be a question on here almost every month from some owner who has some sort of problem with these studs. major neglect?? major nonsense.

I didn't suggest copper slip because they will get very hot.. so a high temp grease will in the long term be a much better idea. but copper slip is better than nothing.

On my bike a previous owner replaced the bolts with stainless steel jobbies.

Sorry guys talking like a pratt as usual trouble when one's sober!!. Thought he ment cylinder head nuts!, brass should be ok used to always be fitted to, landrovers proper ones anyway. On my K 1100lt I used stainless studs and nuts as these were what I had, never took them off again so don't know how they faired but also used copper slip. The old airhead doge may be worth trying,
take the nuts off once a year and clean the threads and re-coat with copper slip, always worked on my R80. Sorry about prevoius cock up obviously in
need of viscoisty change to the blood stream!!. (while I can still afford it!).
Dave ( I hate christmas ) GS.

 

[motobiker]

34,000 miles bob.

 

[MattW]

Thanks for the advice guys.
If I can get hold of some SS studding I think I'll give stainless studs a go and I'll probably do both heads.

The engineers I'm going to use to dig out the inevitable broken studs charge by the hour and were very helpful on the phone yesterday. They did say that if I'm going to use them it'll work out cheaper if I just bring them the head without having a go myself (not that I'd go near easy outs - learned a very expensive lesson with them a few years ago) - good advice I think... I'm currently soaking my nuts in WD40 three times a day ready for a go this weekend

One last question....
After reassembly I'll obviously need to check rocker end float and valve clearances, but this needs to be done after the heads have been torqued up. However if the rocker end float needs adjusting, it means loosening one of the carefully "torqued in a criss cross pattern" head nuts in order to release the rocker shaft bearing cap and do the tappy thing shown in Steptoe's other excellent how to. I take it I'm reading this right and that slackening one head nut in isolation won't be a problem?

thanks again
Matt

 

[Big Den]

I have the same problem and am about to remove the heads using Steptoes brief, wasn't aware i had to check end float ? just new gaskets and re-assemble.

 

[MattW]

I have the same problem and am about to remove the heads using Steptoes brief, wasn't aware i had to check end float ? just new gaskets and re-assemble.

It's usually good practice to check clearances after disturbing a head and I'm fine with this (I've only just got the bike and would have checked valve clearances etc anyway - even without having to change a head gasket).

My only problem is that after carefully torquing everything up, you them release one of your carefully torqued bolts if the end float needs adjusting?... - but that's BMW's I guess

 

[Big Den]

now shall i wait to see how you get first

 

[Trullion]

I've just done the head gaskets on my 1100RS. Gave the studs a good few douses with Plus Gas a few days before starting work. Two on each side came off ok; one on each side wound the stud (intact) out of the head. I simply replaced them with new studs from Motorworks and put new acorn nuts on. The new style gaskets shouldn't leak (I hope); mine had the earlier version (it's a '96). I intend to just loosen them off every now and again and re-copaslip them. I guess I was lucky, as trying to remove the acorn nut from one of the studs in my vice it was obvious that it wasn't coming off.

My tips (FWIW):

1.Follow Steptoe's guidance (not Haynes). It eliminates unnecessary work.
2. Do them both. Once you've done one the other takes about 20 minutes.
3. Crack loose (but don't remove) the camshaft sprocket on the side you are doing before setting the piston at TDC on the firing stroke (if, like me, you don't have anything to lock the crankshaft with), otherwise the crankshaft will move when you loosen the nut, which is pretty tight.
4. Don't loosen the camchain tensioner on the other pot to the one you're working on. Do one pot at a time.
5. You don't have to adjust the rocker shaft clearance because it shouldn't have changed unless you remove the rocker gear, which isn't necessary; you will have to adjust the valve clearances because the new gaskets won't be the same thickness as the old ones.

Hope this helps.

 

[MattW]

Thanks for the reply Trullion - very helpful.

My exhaust studs are pretty bad (mine's a '94) - the 'acorn' on the nuts has rusted off completely on four of them and I can't actually see a hex on what's left - I think it'll be a case of hitting a smaller socket onto them and hoping for the best! One way or the other I'll get the exhausts off and if it destroys the studs, I'll get them professionally removed and changed (I've ordered 6 new studs from motorworks in case I can't find / make stainless versions).

I'll see what happens on Sunday when I give it a go...

 

[pomm001]

Thanks for the advice guys.
If I can get hold of some SS studding I think I'll give stainless studs a go and I'll probably do both heads.

The engineers I'm going to use to dig out the inevitable broken studs charge by the hour and were very helpful on the phone yesterday. They did say that if I'm going to use them it'll work out cheaper if I just bring them the head without having a go myself (not that I'd go near easy outs - learned a very expensive lesson with them a few years ago) - good advice I think... I'm currently soaking my nuts in WD40 three times a day ready for a go this weekend

One last question....
After reassembly I'll obviously need to check rocker end float and valve clearances, but this needs to be done after the heads have been torqued up. However if the rocker end float needs adjusting, it means loosening one of the carefully "torqued in a criss cross pattern" head nuts in order to release the rocker shaft bearing cap and do the tappy thing shown in Steptoe's other excellent how to. I take it I'm reading this right and that slackening one head nut in isolation won't be a problem?

thanks again
Matt

something to bear in mind!
when you give your cylinder head over to the engineering shop make sure the 'fire face ' of the head is well protected with either a couple of layers of duct tape or similar, otherwise you could end up with damage / scratches just where the head gasket seals on
20 ~ 20 hindsight is a gift !

 

[MattW]

something to bear in mind!
when you give your cylinder head over to the engineering shop make sure the 'fire face ' of the head is well protected with either a couple of layers of duct tape or similar, otherwise you could end up with damage / scratches just where the head gasket seals on
20 ~ 20 hindsight is a gift !

Good point - thanks pomm

The engineers I'm going to use are automotive types (they made a great job of a mate's landrover head), so I'd hope they would take the appropriate care, but as you say, better safe than sorry!