1150 GSA wont start

[Outbacksidecar]

I have a 2003 1150 GS Adv with 61000 km's on it. It ran fine when I got it, but had been dropped and needed some work. All fixed, except for a small oil leak from a crack in the front cover plate on the motor. So I pulled the cover off and got the crack welded. This meant removing the belt, pulley and Hall effect sensor and gate.

Reassembled it all with a new seal on the shaft, making sure the gate was located properly, and that the sensor plate was lined up as before.

NOW IT WONT START. A little "pop" every now and again but no go.

It has spark on both plugs both sides, and the injectors are firing.

I tried a small experiment and squirted a little aerostart into the air box. No difference. This suggests to me that the timing is way out - if it was a fuel problem it should have ran, if only briefly. I cant see how the timing could get out though.

Any suggestions??

Phil

 

[DrFarkoff]

Probably the usual one

Check your throttle cables are seated at both ends at the throttle bodies and the splitter box under the battery correctly

 

[davegs]

Non starting

Makle sure your sensor plate IS in the correct position

 

[Outbacksidecar]

checked

I checked both the cables and the Hall sensor gate again. Both are good EXCEPT that I found that the fuel pump cycles at BDC, not TDC as it should. Means timing is 180 degrees out? or 270? not right anyway. How do I correct this? Phil

 

[Pekkavee]

I checked both the cables and the Hall sensor gate again. Both are good EXCEPT that I found that the fuel pump cycles at BDC, not TDC as it should. Means timing is 180 degrees out? or 270? not right anyway. How do I correct this? Phil

Maybe your Hall sensor wires are wrong connected.

Pekka

 

[forry]

I have a 2003 1150 GS Adv with 61000 km's on it. It ran fine when I got it, but had been dropped and needed some work. All fixed, except for a small oil leak from a crack in the front cover plate on the motor. So I pulled the cover off and got the crack welded. This meant removing the belt, pulley and Hall effect sensor and gate.

Reassembled it all with a new seal on the shaft, making sure the gate was located properly, and that the sensor plate was lined up as before.

NOW IT WONT START. A little "pop" every now and again but no go.

It has spark on both plugs both sides, and the injectors are firing.

I tried a small experiment and squirted a little aerostart into the air box. No difference. This suggests to me that the timing is way out - if it was a fuel problem it should have ran, if only briefly. I cant see how the timing could get out though.

Any suggestions??

Phil

mine did a similar thing when the hall sensor failed check out the video


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[Outbacksidecar]

The wires are the right way around - the plug under the tank only goes one way and I didnt disconnect anything else.

The more I think on it the more I'm sure it is the Hall sensors, or one of them anyway. The motronics would need both to know which stroke the motor is on. If one fails then it would lose the plot very quickly.

I saw a little test box to make up on a link off this site, so I'll do that & test it. I also saw another for fitting non original sensors. Looks like I'm in for a weekend of fun.

Thanks for your help. I'll post the outcome. Cheers, Phil

 

[MattW]

The wires are the right way around - the plug under the tank only goes one way and I didnt disconnect anything else.

The more I think on it the more I'm sure it is the Hall sensors, or one of them anyway. The motronics would need both to know which stroke the motor is on. If one fails then it would lose the plot very quickly.

I saw a little test box to make up on a link off this site, so I'll do that & test it. I also saw another for fitting non original sensors. Looks like I'm in for a weekend of fun.

Thanks for your help. I'll post the outcome. Cheers, Phil

As far as I understand, the engine doesn't care which stroke it's on - it fires both cylinders ignition and injectors every stroke using wasted spark / batch injection.

One of the hall sensors drives ignition, the other drives injection - it should be fairly simple to work out which has failed.

 

[davegs]

Sensors

Just wrote a crap idea but thought I'd save all the piss taking that would result!
good old delation!

 

[Outbacksidecar]

As far as I understand, the engine doesn't care which stroke it's on - it fires both cylinders ignition and injectors every stroke using wasted spark / batch injection.

One of the hall sensors drives ignition, the other drives injection - it should be fairly simple to work out which has failed.

OK, so I have both spark and injection operating both cylinders - so both sensors are working. This has got me confused. If it fired the injectors every stroke wouldnt this result in wasted fuel? It has to be that it fires injector and spark one side (one sensor) and then injector and spark on the other side (other sensor). So what I have is it firing back to front. So what I need to do is reverse it, but I dont know how. Phil

 

[MattW]

OK, so I have both spark and injection operating both cylinders - so both sensors are working. This has got me confused. If it fired the injectors every stroke wouldnt this result in wasted fuel? It has to be that it fires injector and spark one side (one sensor) and then injector and spark on the other side (other sensor). So what I have is it firing back to front. So what I need to do is reverse it, but I dont know how. Phil

Batch injection uses the fact that an injection at TDC compression will effectively just 'hang around' in the inlet tract (plates itself to the walls of the tract and is 'sucked off' on the induction stroke along with the next injection). A wasted spark on the exhaust stroke doesn't matter - it's just 'wasted'. Bear in mind that the Motronic is actually 'monotronic' - designed for single cylinder engines.

As to your problem - there I can't help, but if you're getting fuel and all cables are seated right, I'd start by checking the ignition system from start to finish (a spark on a plug outside the cylinder may not spark under compression).

 

[Outbacksidecar]

Batch injection uses the fact that an injection at TDC compression will effectively just 'hang around' in the inlet tract (plates itself to the walls of the tract and is 'sucked off' on the induction stroke along with the next injection). A wasted spark on the exhaust stroke doesn't matter - it's just 'wasted'. Bear in mind that the Motronic is actually 'monotronic' - designed for single cylinder engines.

As to your problem - there I can't help, but if you're getting fuel and all cables are seated right, I'd start by checking the ignition system from start to finish (a spark on a plug outside the cylinder may not spark under compression).

Makes sense - since it was running before and all four plugs fire I'm probably looking for a loose/bad connection somewhere rather than a bad spark plug, so I'll go and do that.

 

[Outbacksidecar]

I have just noticed that when I press the starter button the clock resets. Reading the treads on starter motors suggests the starter motor is on its way out and the clock resets because the starter takes up all the power. Odds on then that there isnt enough to run the ignition either, so it wont start. It looks like I'll fix the starter first before mucking around with anything else, or find a really steep hill....

 

[ecnirpr]

I have just noticed that when I press the starter button the clock resets.

had the same problem, replaced the stater motor and bingo!!!! I'd put plenty of money on that being your problem.

 

[oblertone]

My 1100 ...

... had been stood for quite a while before I bought it, had a similar problem with corrosion in the starter motor making it very hard (and sometimes impossible) to start, tried new battery etc, only cured by a new starter motor

 

[Deleted member CB]

It's a long shot, but the poblem I had shorted the inside of the starter motor sometimes re-setting the clock.

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164930

Is your battery is in good condition? Have you tried jump leads from a car just to make sure?

 

[Outbacksidecar]

Turns out it was the sensors. I made up a small test box as per a US link off this site. The upper of the two sensors was stuffed. Seems this also detects TDC, so while I had both spark and fuel injection they were at the wrong time. Put in an exchange sensor plate (Motohansa in Sydney $273 - I'll give them a plug because they got it back to me inside a week over Christmas), and it started up straight away. Many thanks to the various respondants to my questions. Cheers, Phil