Some had issues with cams (cam wear) as I understand it. Not reported much on this site and seemed restricted to earlier GS shift cam motors. Could have been a batch thing, so perhaps not affecting most bikes.
2019 RT LE
- Thread starter Morety
- Start date
Great thanks
Took a test ride on a 2019 LE. Being familiar with them, this example was in great condition but not right on the ride. Loads of high frequency vibes eventually leaving me with tingling fingers.
Lots of vibes up through pegs too between 3 and 5k revs especially. Clutch only bit in the last few mm and gearchange was very clunky, not at all like the other 1250’s I ride and nav wouldn’t respond to the idrive jog wheel.
My thoughts are vibes can only be one thing….seized cardan shaft not slipping as it should, in and out of splined housing as geometry changes over ripples and bumps. Notchy change due to clutch being either worn or in need of adjustment and perhaps nav issue needs a software update on bike. Does this sound about right? Will try it again when they get it looked at. Handled well enough and comfy but seat way too squashy…would change that for an Aktiv Komfort one and fit a peg lowering kit.
Lots of vibes up through pegs too between 3 and 5k revs especially. Clutch only bit in the last few mm and gearchange was very clunky, not at all like the other 1250’s I ride and nav wouldn’t respond to the idrive jog wheel.
My thoughts are vibes can only be one thing….seized cardan shaft not slipping as it should, in and out of splined housing as geometry changes over ripples and bumps. Notchy change due to clutch being either worn or in need of adjustment and perhaps nav issue needs a software update on bike. Does this sound about right? Will try it again when they get it looked at. Handled well enough and comfy but seat way too squashy…would change that for an Aktiv Komfort one and fit a peg lowering kit.
Vibes - the shaft doesn't move in and out of the splines, the shaft is static, so doesn't really matter if the splines are rusted, expect they could in theory break. The bit that fails on the shaft is the other end, by the bevel box.
I have a 2019 1250LE and at certain revs I sometimes get a numb feeling in my fingers, but tyres can also have this effect, just put new tyres on and been away for a 500 mile trip and didn't experience any vibrations. Nav wise, I assume you know the wonder wheel doesn't do as much as it does on the GS, I never used to use it, in fact changed to a Garmin XT in the end, so no wonder wheel.
That would make sense. I had a shaft that had been difficult to remove from my GSA at the bevel box end and the bike vibes were pronounced. Once the shaft was removed and relubed, the vibes dropped right off. The menus clearly shows that you should be able to switch pages on the Nav, as well as zoom in and out, using the menus button, but all it does is show the nav unit map, with all switching having to be done manually which isn't ideal when riding. Are you saying that although the menu shows this functionality, it doesn't actually work? That's pretty poor of bmw if it's the case. I would be adding some grip puppies to the bar grips to reduce vibes but none of our fleet 1250's have anything like the vibes I felt with this one. It's barely noticeable on those, so I still think there's an underlying reason as I shouldn't be getting numbed finders (it's that bad!). They're looking into it for me, so hopefully some of the issues can be resolved. The bike has been in storage 6 months and it never pays to leave a bike laid up too long.
To be honest I do not know what the wonder wheel functionality does, as I never really used it even when I had a Nav VI, I just know it doesn't have anything like the functionality of a GS.
I also ride and look after a fleet of 1250 blood bikes, I've ridden 1000s of miles and only experience numbness at certain revs for prolonged periods. But as I said, I noticed some vibration a few months ago, which after I changed my tyres has virtually disappeared, in so much as if I do feel numbness, I just change the revs. Used to use grip puppies a few years ago, but then I ended up with cramp in my hands as the grips were too large
LoL...it can be frustrating sorting these issues! I suspect, new tyres, grip puppies and heavier bar end weights will reduce it to bearable levels but as the mirrors on our fleet bikes are clear at all revs, and these are too blurred to see anything, there's something not quite right here. I'll look into it as it would be a shame to pass on such a nice bike otherwise.
Result! Motorrad are taking the bike in next week as they agree with me, it's more than likely the cardan shaft. They'll check and replace it if so, and will carry out all recall work (4 outstanding apparently on a 13K mile bike). Bike is due with me in a few weeks, sorted and ready to go. Regarding the jog wheel, it was confirmed that it should work no differently to that on my RS, so they'll check and sort that issue as the menu functions should allow changing Nav6 page (bike data etc) and allow zooming in and out. Calls for comms would need manual touchscreen answering or making but that's fine.
sticky exhaust valves only thing that comes to mind.... but all boxers suffer...
Cracking bike the RT.... best all round travel bike ever - history will prove...
Touring, scratching with the best, light footed, strong down low... does everything well
Cracking bike the RT.... best all round travel bike ever - history will prove...
Touring, scratching with the best, light footed, strong down low... does everything well
That's what I'm hoping. Taking a big risk relinquishing the RS which has been fantastic. The RT doesn't have its agility nor turn of speed but it's not that far off either. Exhaust valve issues as you say are inherent to all boxers but easily rectified with regular maintenance to prevent seizures. Still waiting on the service team report before I make a final decision.
Don't want to keep banging on, but regular maintenance doesn't seem to have any bearing on the exhaust flap failing. Some fail even with regular maintenance and some don't. Some don't fail with no maintenance, some do. I remember having a conversation with the service manager at a dealership who had given a set of headers to some engineers, who were trying to work out why the valves stick. They couldn't work out why and seemingly nor can BMW. Maybe the 1300s will fair better
Karlread
Registered user
Bit of a thread crash here, I have a Zumo 660 for sale with all original leads etc and case which will fit the R1200/R1250 RT for £110 if anyone interested. Can be collected from Milton Keynes if anyone interested
I've heard the same but it's such a simple electro-mechanical device. Either it starts seizing up (usually lower bearing housing) and over-stresses the actuating servo which damages that or it seizes completely, either way rendering it useless and generating fault codes. If it fails open and you use an eliminator, then I guess that sorts the fault code issue and if it were mine, I'd just leave it at that. I do check mine regularly and can't help thinking that with regular cleaning out and relubing the top spindle, that far fewer would fail. perhaps I have been lucky but none of mine to date have suffered any failures. I know that a few people have commented that they did regularly maintain their valves and they still failed. I wonder how often they did that though, as it's never been made clear in any examples given. It's one of those things slipping between the maintenance schedule of serviceable items, (yet another "serviceable for life" component, much like the final drives), which proved to be anything but serviceable for life. I'd be interested to learn if they've changed the design for later bikes, but suspect they haven't, just accepting that a good percentage will fail at some point.Don't want to keep banging on, but regular maintenance doesn't seem to have any bearing on the exhaust flap failing. Some fail even with regular maintenance and some don't. Some don't fail with no maintenance, some do. I remember having a conversation with the service manager at a dealership who had given a set of headers to some engineers, who were trying to work out why the valves stick. They couldn't work out why and seemingly nor can BMW. Maybe the 1300s will fair better
Well I maintained mine on my 1250 from new every 6 months and the first failed within the first year, then replaced and then I have continued to lube it and fingers crossed. On my 2014 1200 same procedure, had two sets of headers over 10k miles. On our blood bikes (1250s) 3 have all had new headers. On a couple of mates bikes all 23 on 1250s, all have had new headers within 3k miles. Some though have had no failures at all, some have suggested regular use helps, but all the bikes mentioned get lots of use. There is no bearing on the flap, the rod just goes into a cup on the bottom of the exhaust.
Yes, a few of our blood bikes have had headers replaced too although it's not been common amongst the bikes. The replacement has been trouble free since it was done though. It seems to have affected later 1200's and 1250's more than earlier models. I looked at mine where the spindle goes into the bottom. The issue seems to be that unless regularly cleaned you can get carbon and corrosion build up in that bottom housing which partially blocks the moisture from escaping through the gap in the bottom so after a ride, it sits in the well, promoting corrosion and making the problem worse. I've bought some small brass brushes and use those together with a thin rifle barrel cleaning brush to keep it as clean as I can. I dip the brushes in carbon remover then once done, spray brake cleaner into the housing to flush it through. That seems to do the trick. Mine's at 9K miles now and still seems fine. The top bearing I clean 6 monthly, the bottom one is done more regularly. It's a PITA but I've just made it part of my regular maintenance because it's not part of the service schedule and from what I see, it is needed fairly regularly, depending on annual miles.
You shouldn’t need to do it at all. AnotherPoor quality item from BMW.
Really? It is the concept that is flawed not the application. Yamaha EXUP valves seize, so do Suzuki's on V Stroms etc. It is a daft idea to place a moving part in such a hostile environment.
I can't agree. My RS and GSA before that have been ultra reliable and mainly fault free bar a temporary sticking switch on the GSA. Having seen the state of a few newish Hondas after a year or two all round use, the RS has fared better and probably as reliable. I had nothing but trouble with my last Trumph, have had exhaust valves burn out on two previous Yamahas, had a string of issues with Ducati's. Every Japanese bike I owned had brake issues (seizing calipers) and issues with anti-dive mechanisms. No bike is fault free but despite all the issues you may read on this forum with BMW's, I would still rather put my money into one, given that any issues I've previously had, were quickly rectified by Motorrad, some of them well outside of warranty periods. The exhaust valve, as stated above, are within an extremely hostile environment and despite not being part of a service schedule item, do require owners to regularly inspect and clean them. I know a good few people who ride BMWs who've had trouble free motorcycling and a reason we use them for blood bike duties is down to their all round competence and generally good reliability. One of our 1200RT bikes was decommissioned last year only because the wiring loom caught fire, but to be fair, it had covered over 150K miles with just regular servicing. A couple of clutch replacements in that time but it still rode and performed well. Can't think of many others which would do the same without issues.
With my "engineering" hat on, to the point (correctly noted above) that some do stick and some don't regardless of care, it is likely to do with heat cycling/frequency/duration of use. I have always copper greased mine once a year and never had an issue bar one time on a 16 reg GSA. I do v little mileage though which is concentrated around 2 weeks a year, a few months apart, i.e. don't use them every day...
Appreciate that. I'm also a qualified engineer, and to my eyes, it's a simple mechanism operating in a very harsh environment, so regular servicing is a must, despite Motorrad not covering it at all in their service requirements. Granted, even with maintenance some seem to seize but the mechanisms of failure are well known. Heat cycles aside, corrosion and carbon build up seem to be the main culprits and when baked with heat cycles, if it's allowed to build up, they will seize. The difficulty even regularly maintaining them is you can't really get to the bottom well to give it a proper scrub out nor access to the bottom spindle, so perhaps its more pragmatic to observe that even doing what you can, it probably only delays the inevitable.
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