3-Layer vs Direct Laminate Waterproof Gear?

[younger06]

Mark, you have applied 30% to some euro prices from what I can gather. Richa Touring is one example. That's a fantastic jacket, but I would check Cotters Motorcycles for it.


http://www.cottermc.com/clothing/richa-touring-c-change-jacket-black

 

[RedRick Esq.]

at £382 that Badlands pro is a bargain (certainly compared to what i paid for mine a few years ago) and for my money the best on that list. Others will disagree obviously as we all have our preference.
I chose mine not on price but what it did for me versus the competition like the Rukka armas which was on my list. The klim edged it on its fantastic ventilation compared to the competition.

 

[nzduc]

So, having decided on laminate a whole raft of other factors come into deciding a choice. For me the key ones were: What type of riding do I intend to do? Is this my only riding gear, Protection, Fit, Price, Quality (so many others)
I settled on the Klim Badlands 2014 based on all year round riding in one set of gear, on & off road, touring, able to layer in winter, Huge venting for summer, substantial protection, quality materials and fit my shape. Price was steep though. Many of the other options you've highlighted above have elements that are better............BUT fundamentally any single outfit is a compromise.
I'm not recommending Klim or any other manufacturer, just outlining my thought process.
Cheers and good luck with a decision!!

 

[PhaedrusMC]

Mark, you have applied 30% to some euro prices from what I can gather. Richa Touring is one example. That's a fantastic jacket, but I would check Cotters Motorcycles for it.


http://www.cottermc.com/clothing/richa-touring-c-change-jacket-black

All I did was convert the UK STG prices on the websites I looked at, didn't look around for cheaper shops. At this time, it was more of an exercise in identifying DL jackets to consider, rather than locate best prices.

I presumed ROI would be the last place to look, TBH.

The Klim Badlands Pro is interesting. If they all "do what it says on the tin", then as nzduc says - it comes down to the features & style you prefer. I personally prefer the more discreet or low-key jackets - Held Cadora & Alpinestars Tech Road, for example.

 

[younger06]

Not nit picking, I'm just pointing out some seriously out of kilter pricing.

Sent using a Jedi mind trick!

 

[PhaedrusMC]

 

[PhaedrusMC]

Another laminated/bonded outer shell option...

https://www.fc-moto.de/Buese-Bologna-STX-Textile-Jacket

https://www.fc-moto.de/Buese-Bologna-STX-Textile-Pant

Any Tossers have any experience with Büse (Buese?) clothing? They seem to be pretty big operation - German I think?

Really good-looking gear IMO, specially the Adventure STX and Open Road Evo jackets, but they use removable waterproof liners. TBH, if any jacket was going to soften my horn for only jackets with a bonded/laminated outer shell, based on looks it could well be the Open Road Evo... Please Jesus forgive me... Why couldn't they have made a jacket in the style of the Open Road Evo, but using the Cordura/Sympatex laminated/bonded outer shell fabric from the Bologna...

http://katalog.buese.com/en/cat100114

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKFcw6x4l9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHkn_BW9I0Y

The Bologna jacket (and pants) is (IMO) less handsome, but it's the only bonded/laminated outer shell item they seem to do.


Scratch the Alpinestars Tech Road and Klim Badlands Pro from that list in my earlier post, at least from FC-Moto - they say £382 or so on their product pages, but neither seem to be available in any size. Trickery. Real prices elsewhere seem to be £700+. Still lovely kit, but not the bargains I'd initially thought them to be.

 

[PhaedrusMC]

Just buy Rukka and stop fcuking about

The more I research, the more interesting I find Rukka gear. Well, just their Gor-Tex Pro Shell stuff - anything "less" might as well be from any other brand, no?

Didn't Ewan & Charley receive Rukka stuff in the prep for LWR (and wore it during the BMW training days, IIRC?). Were those the Armas jackets & pants? They seemed closer fitting than the Cosmic, from pics I've seen?

 

[Pablo1]

Well 4 years ago I bought a rukka armadillo suit reduced to £700 from George White who went bust just after I received my delivery (phew), brilliant kit but colour faded and just before crimbo past I returned the suit via my nearest stockist (J&S) along with my receipt for a warranty claim under the 5 year guarantee.
No haggling no fecking about, within a week I received a new suit worth around £1300 (armaxion) with an apology that the version I returned was no longer produced.
Buy with confidence

both of the above are goretex pro shell AFAIK

 

[PhaedrusMC]

Well 4 years ago I bought a rukka armadillo suit reduced to £700 from George White who went bust just after I received my delivery (phew), brilliant kit but colour faded and just before crimbo past I returned the suit via my nearest stockist (J&S) along with my receipt for a warranty claim under the 5 year guarantee.
No haggling no fecking about, within a week I received a new suit worth around £1300 (armaxion) with an apology that the version I returned was no longer produced.
Buy with confidence

both of the above are goretex pro shell AFAIK

Jeaney mac... That's pretty impressive. So will you get another 5-year warranty on that Armaxion? With warranty and service like that a £1000 suit doesn't seem "expensive" at all...

 

[Pablo1]

Another 5 years might be taking the piss lol, i dont have nerve to ask, great kit though.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[PhaedrusMC]

I didn't mean to sound cheeky there - it was curiosity, rather than any money-grabbing notion. I imagine the Armaxion gear does come with Rukka's 5-year warranty. In fairness, even if there did transpire to be an issue with the Armaxion within its 5 year warranty period, you'd probably be happy enough to swallow the loss - great warranty.

I can see myself eventually getting a Rukka suit (Gore-Tex Pro Shell only), but getting back into it all this year, my initial gear will be from the lower end of the market. Once I've gotten the funds it'll migrate to use as back-up, or for duty as gear for my son if I take him pillion.

 

[Radarman]

Isn't the warranty for Rukka extended to 6 years in the UK?. At least that's what my certificate for Cosmic says...

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

Isn't the warranty for Rukka extended to 6 years in the UK?. At least that's what my certificate for Cosmic says...

It is provided it is purchased through a UK retailer

All you need to do is scan your receipt then upload it to the Tran Am web-site to register your purchase to receive the 6th year of warranty

 

[Radarman]

Well, you can do this pretty much with all EU purchases. Just follow this:
- find your preferable Rukka gear in one of the EU online shops (FC Moto, biker-land etc),
- send the screenshot to Motolegends and they will price match EU offer,
- once delivered from Motolegends, register it for 6-year warranty and that's it

 

[PhaedrusMC]

It's all a compromise, there's no magic bullet, just what works for you.

Andres

It's all a compromise.

I gave up trying to work out which was best at any given minute and bought three or four different suits.

In the months passed between these posts and today, I've done some riding on hot dry days and mild wet days, all wearing the same jacket - poorly-vented, with a non-removable waterproof liner.

I sweated BUCKETS on the hot dry rides. I also sweated on the mild wet rides. Despite being in Ireland, I now realise that effective venting will be essential (and not just desirable) in summer.

I guess I had been hoping that there existed one jacket (and pants) that could tick all the boxes and be usable in all conditions from hot & dry to cold & wet; essentially the ultimate compromise.

Seems that that single jacket doesn't exist, so I'm now accepting that a couple of outfits is probably the most effective cover-all-bases compromise.

Being light-of-funds, I'm looking to stuff with proprietary lining fabrics.

For cold & wet, I'd like laminated stuff. For variable/unpredictable conditions I'd like stuff with good venting and a removable waterproof liner, probably with a simple rain jacket & pants for persistent heavy rain, to avoid the saturated-shell issue. For hot & dry I'd like mesh stuff, again with a simple rain jacket & pants, or even the outer shell of the laminated outfit (with the armour removed) for rain.


Macna (as an example - other brands must also) make three different outfits/combos that would fit the bill.

COLD & WET: Impact laminated jacket (http://www.fc-moto.de/Macna-Impact-Textile-Jacket) & Logic laminated pants (http://www.fc-moto.de/Macna-Logic-Textile-Pants)

VARIABLE: Mountain 3-(removable) layer jacket (http://www.fc-moto.de/Macna-Mountain-Jacket) & Fulcrum 3-(removable) layer pants (http://www.fc-moto.de/Macna-Fulcrum-Textile-Pants)

HOT & DRY: Rush mesh jacket (http://www.fc-moto.de/Macna-Rush-Textile-Jacket) & Buran mesh pants (http://www.fc-moto.de/Macna-Buran-Textile-Pant)

I like the idea that one back protector would fit each jacket, eliminating the necessity to buy three. I also like that I could acquire such a "system" over time, perhaps starting with the versatile outfit, and then buying the other outfits as the need increased.


Alternatively I guess something with a removable waterproof liner and loads of venting like Dainese's D-Stormer jacket (http://www.fc-moto.de/Dainese-D-Stormer-D-Dry-Jacket) might bridge the gap between the variable-conditions gear and the hot & dry mesh gear, perhaps adding a rain jacket and pants to avoid the saturated shell. This may be the closest to a versatile one-outfit solution you could expect to get, and would likely even be cheaper than the three separate outfits solution. And I accept that as a brand, Dainese is more of a known quantity than Macna. The D-Stormer is also better looking than the Macna stuff, IMO.


Nothing new here - just sharing thoughts.

I'd love to hear comments from anyone with experience of the D-Stormer jacket (or the similar Teren), or any of the Macna stuff.


Mark

 

[Jumpjim]

I swear by my BMW Tourshell jacket.

Bonded laminate construction, completely waterproof, MUCH better venting than the Streetguard 3 I've also got (2 large slash zips on the front and two vertical exit vents on the back either side of the back protector).

I wore it in Cannes in 38C heat while we were stuck on a motorway behind a crash, and much to my surprise the cool black IR reflective coating seems to work and I didn't get that hot.

Also worked brilliantly up the top of the Alps on the way down there with temps down to 3C, all without the liner in.

The jacket I bought secondhand for £150 and looks like new, and the trousers were £100 off here.

Can't recommend it highly enough.

 

[Mr K]

Last year, about this time I invested £1,000 in a Held Gore-shell jacket, trousers and gloves.
I bought them for a trip to Portugal in November.
I doubted myself for spending so much money given how infrequently I ride these days, but even my faltering memory can recall at least 5 "all day in the pissing down rain" scenarios where I remained bone dry....and maybe just as importantly my kit dried within 20 minutes of being hung-up in the hotel room, as the water simply runs off the outer shell and doesn't soak into the cordura (or whatever) outer layer.

No brainer.
Do it.



(Cadora Jacket, Manero trouser, Satu gloves)

 

[PhaedrusMC]

Held Cadora would be very high atop my list of laminated shell options (along with Alpinestars' Tech Road), but simply more money than I can spend. Quite a few Gore-Tex Pro laminated jacket options now, but all too rich for me.

Can they really vent sufficiently in really hot conditions? And if they can, is there a trade-off? Given that any vents are effectively holes in the jacket's outer shell, the design of the hole and the zipper must be capable of matching the waterproofness of the fabric - is that the case?

Probably moot for me now anyway, at least till some point in the future - I ordered a Dainese D-Stormer jacket and Tempest pants. Lots of deliberation/procrastination, and consideration of alternatives, but I reckon that with the liners removed, it (the jacket) should vent sufficiently in hot conditions. Like I said, I'll add a simple waterproof shell jacket & pants later for persistent/prolonged rain, cos I still view the notion of the waterproof layer fitting under the outer shell as less than ideal.

Perhaps the next step in jacket evolution might be a mesh inner jacket that holds the armour and has tough fabric in the necessary areas, with a laminated shell outer jacket. Macna's Cobalt is such a jacket, but their own Raintex laminate is just too much of an unknown. UK & Ireland seems to be addicted to the established brands, and not big on brands that seem to be big in Europe - Buse and Macna to name two that I had been looking into.

Anyway, I hope (and expect) to be happy with the D-Stormer...

 

[younger06]

I wouldn't have a problem spending money on Macna kit.
A friend of mine has been wearing Macna (in Ireland) for years and the quality is very high.

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