3 year old failures

[Pauly S]

it just seems that

Guys seem to be forever on here, ranting about them , but the jap owners are out there riding them, and havnt got their own toilet seat and tea mug in the dealer

 

[cookie]

from what i've heard, late model transits are hardly the best example to be holding up as paragons of reliability

that's not to excuse bmw's piss poor record in that field, dating back well before the time of 1200s.

 

[shugie]

from what i've heard, late model transits are hardly the best example to be holding up as paragons of reliability

that's not to excuse bmw's piss poor record in that field, dating back well before the time of 1200s.

Strange, I've heard that late model Transits are temperamental too. The 1150 certainly had its share of problems, some of which, corrosion, final drive and ABS problems are common to the 1200. The 1200 did introduce some new problems, mainly, it seems, in the electrical department.

I've no experience of Honda, although rumours about chocolate cams have been sported, but I would be interested to know if they do what BMW sometimes do, which is to replace expensive components, such as final drives, after the end of the warranty period.

 

[RickG]

Thing is that there are problems where there's no right for them to to be.

Both the FPC and the ring antenna, which I would hazard a wild guess at constitute 60% of all the problems reported here, are fundamentally bad news and can leave you and any bike, no matter what age, stranded. These parts are simply not necessary on the bike in the first place. If they had left those off the 1200 would probably be about as reliable as an 1150, which is a good starting point.

We're then left with wobbly disks which is an engineering or quality control cock-up

Then corrosion which most people would probably tolerate as it doesn't leave them stuck on the side of the road

Then oil seals -this one is unforgivable but judging by the lack of recent posts it seems to have mostly affected bikes up to about 2008 and probably due to crap seals from a supplier, pity it took a few years to sort out (why???, Oil seals are easy!)

Then final drives which is part poor design (as they uprated the pinion bearing the same time as they introduced the drain plug), part I suspect, poor assembly with incorrect shimming that leads to early failure and part inadequate testing in the prototype satge. Oh, and pinching the bits (the pinion bearings) off the 1150 which itself has seen final drive failures - you would have thought that was a clue? This one is going to be the real killer as the years go by and any bike with over 50k on it is going to be regarded as suspect. At a grand to replace it people are going to want to knock that much off the price just in case the drive is knackered.

The exploding gearboxes and dropped valves are realtively inconsequential by comparison and if that was all there was to worry about then this forum would hardly exist!

 

[Pauly S]

transits

from what i've heard, late model transits are hardly the best example to be holding up as paragons of reliability

that's not to excuse bmw's piss poor record in that field, dating back well before the time of 1200s.

My last two trannys have been blinding, 220k, and no real glitches, sets a precedent for BMW to copy, they are about the same price too!!, except i guarentee my transit will get you there...

 

[cookie]

Then oil seals -this one is unforgivable but judging by the lack of recent posts it seems to have mostly affected bikes up to about 2008 and probably due to crap seals from a supplier, pity it took a few years to sort out (why???, Oil seals are easy!)

from what i know, the oil seal problem was/is caused by clutch debris abrading the seals, causing leaks. sometime in 08 new seals with bodgy felt washers stuck to them were introduced to reduce this.

a new clutch assy was also brought out, but i don't know if this was related to the same problem.

both parts can be fitted to the older bikes.

 

[RickG]

from what i know, the oil seal problem was/is caused by clutch debris abrading the seals, causing leaks. sometime in 08 new seals with bodgy felt washers stuck to them were introduced to reduce this.

a new clutch assy was also brought out, but i don't know if this was related to the same problem.

both parts can be fitted to the older bikes.

It's really great that's it seems to have been fixed but my point is how can it have been allowed to happen in the first place? This is not new technology, though I assume the clutch material is 'new' and asbestos free but it's a clutch which on the BM means a dry car clutch type and there are millions of new cars on the road, presumably without oil seal failures. And err.. hang on, BMW make cars too! Where's the technology transfer?

Secondly, where's the R&D and testing? The seal failures happened at low milages, surely they tested some before they went into production..?

Thirdly, a load of the seals that failed were on the gearbox output shaft (mine included) the opposite side to the clutch.

 

[cookie]

i can't say it's cured anything. it's just what i was told when bmw replaced mine.

they've had seal problems since, well forever really, so that's plenty of time to fix them too. i don't know if the new seals make any difference

ring antenna probs seem to be be fixed. FPC unit is on it's umpteenth reincarnation and the jury's still out, but not heard of any of the latest black ones failing.

all took way too long even if they are fixed.

fragile and practically unrepairable FD unit looks like it needs a redesign to me.

 

[vfxmark]

Those of us who forget history are doomed to repeat it...

My '83 R100 suffered from exhaust valve recession (metallurgical problems), premature clutch failure, diode board melt-down, etc...
My wife's 83 R80 ST diode board & alternator rotor
my R100 GS alternator rotor... premature rear shock failure, premature gearbox trans output shaft bearing failure (twice) pulled cylinder stud (twice) due [presumably] to voids in block casting - environmental concerns had caused casting process to change slightly and they had not yet got it right maybe?

My R11GS... well, actually, not too bad until hit by a cretin in a pickup truck (with me on-board, naturally)

My first R11S - pretty good till totalled
My second R11S - servo brakes no prob, but some ABS brake gremlin in the wiring harness... fixed(ish) just after warranty by replacing lots of things that weren't the problem first. (but covered under good will)

My 06 GS - near final drive at 24k just before 3 yr warranty ran out...
headlight cluster just after warranty ran out (but covered under "Great dealer who could wrestle the zone rep to the ground"


Fact is, all that tractor-like reliability was more in evidence when these machines had tractor-like power-to-weight ratios and tractor-like levels of complexity.

With all my friends with Ducs and their $700 valve adjustment service calls and two month parts-on-order waiting periods, I think I'll stick with these faulty once-bavarian machines, myself... better the devil I know (and I have boxes of bits and bobs of spares for them)

The final drive failures are vexing... my dealer's theories make sense to me (they are oldest surviving dealership in the US... been at it since before I was born which was in '58)

they figure that BMW forgot how to assemble things with the right tolerance and feel.... slight mis-alignments of bearings is causing failures that have to do with mis-stressing bearings that are certainly rated for the load they are under if aligned correctly.... this being more a process design issue than a mechanical design issue, but leaving you just as screwed when it all goes horribly wrong...

oddly enough, rear end failure on mine turned out to be the pinion gear bearing (blind hole end) not the bearings that support the wheel itself...
no one copped to having seen one of those fail early before

truth be known, the best way to improve reliability of most of these machines is to drive them in such a way that they are no longer fun...

the more under-stressed they are, the longer they will last....
but who wants to do that?

As far as the transit is concerned.... comparing humming birds to elephants...
with regard to fit and finish as well as lots of other aspects...

If you could get your transit to wheelie off the line and corner like a bike....well... you know.

I have a wheelbarrow that is at least forty years old and has had the wheel bearings lubricated once (last year) and it works almost as well as new!


as far as getting away with it... BMW sells things... that's what they do - the fact that some of us actually ride crap out of them is secondary....
most of their tremendously fast-maneuverable cars are sold to people who sit in traffic with them for three miles a day and then park... many of the bikes they sell come out of the garage once a week and get very few miles on them.... we are a rather different demographic but statistically all those bikes sitting in garages doing nothing are improving the reliability numbers

 

[dogman]

Well said that man above!
I recently sold a 30 year old Yamaha four with no rust and a perfect shaft drive, for peanuts to then spend 11k on a new GSA that according to a lot of observers on this forum will not last 30 months before it lets me down.
Should I worry about that every time I go out?
Should I really have to pay near £400 each year for extended warranty and then because I have done that another £300 for BMW 'rip' servicing costs to keep it all valid, just so I can relax at night.
I know I should not let it, but the concern over these issues really is starting to impair my enjoyment of this machine. Perhaps I should never look at GS forums again and then forget all about it? What was that film where Arnie had his memory wiped? Then again if I did that I would not remember how good Yamaha's are!

 

[vfxmark]

Well said that man above!
I know I should not let it, but the concern over these issues really is starting to impair my enjoyment of this machine. Perhaps I should never look at GS forums again and then forget all about it? What was that film where Arnie had his memory wiped? Then again if I did that I would not remember how good Yamaha's are!

i've owned more than a few bikes... none of them totally reliable... my yamaha 2 strokes pretty reliable... my triumph bonneville (71) horribly unreliable....
fact is none of us rides statistics... we each ride individual motorcycles...
chances are if we can afford to ride these behmoths, we have cellphones (mobiles to you faded empah types) we have credit cards, and we probably have enough cash to keep a bit of emergency money under the insole of our riding boots for emergencies...

If riding death valley or the sahara, carry a LOT of extra water, but otherwise, I don't think the reliability of these modern bikes as a trend is lowering as fast as individual things that can put us out of commission, like a car hitting us, a tree getting in our way, that sort of thing.

i say ride the damned things and enjoy... and worry about the problems when they happen... I miss the good old days, but I LOVE fuel injection.... no, I can no longer push-start the bike if the battery dies, but I have not had carbueration problems, or even a stuck float bowl for a decade... except on my wife's older bikes (she has too many of them)

don't worry about the rear end failing - worry about that idiot coming the other way in your lane....
the rear end may fail, but it will warn you, unlike that oncoming asshole.

been riding a few years now... so far my own stupidity has put me on the side of the road many more times than all the unreliability of these modern bikes

 

[bigkid2071]

Rear Pre-Load seized

Hi, just searching for rear shock to find out if any of you had issues with seizures, the shocks not personally

Anyway, not quite 3 yrs old, 26k regularly serviced by BMW as it has to be due to warranty etc etc blah blah, never played with the preload, yet went to it last week and the fecker wouldnt budge.

tried the usual not fit for purpose if this is happening in 3 yrs etc, got the, well this is why BMW sell extended warranties... didnt want to know..

Might give BMW Motorrad customer services a call myself and give them a bit of grief, whats says you.

 

[dogman]

i've owned more than a few bikes... none of them totally reliable... my yamaha 2 strokes pretty reliable... my triumph bonneville (71) horribly unreliable....
fact is none of us rides statistics... we each ride individual motorcycles...
chances are if we can afford to ride these behmoths, we have cellphones (mobiles to you faded empah types) we have credit cards, and we probably have enough cash to keep a bit of emergency money under the insole of our riding boots for emergencies...

If riding death valley or the sahara, carry a LOT of extra water, but otherwise, I don't think the reliability of these modern bikes as a trend is lowering as fast as individual things that can put us out of commission, like a car hitting us, a tree getting in our way, that sort of thing.

i say ride the damned things and enjoy... and worry about the problems when they happen... I miss the good old days, but I LOVE fuel injection.... no, I can no longer push-start the bike if the battery dies, but I have not had carbueration problems, or even a stuck float bowl for a decade... except on my wife's older bikes (she has too many of them)

don't worry about the rear end failing - worry about that idiot coming the other way in your lane....
the rear end may fail, but it will warn you, unlike that oncoming asshole.

been riding a few years now... so far my own stupidity has put me on the side of the road many more times than all the unreliability of these modern bikes

Nice bit of 'perspective' there VFX!
It would just be nice if we didnt feel that it was a triumph of engineering brilliance if a GS1200 can reach 20k without having major work done to it. We will never know the real extent of the level of problems with these bikes as there does not appear to be any in depth survey carried out with owners. BMW should do this I think.
When I wanted a reliable car there was lots of data to tell me that Nissan cars were one of the best, so I bought one and 120k later I sold it having done nothing to it. Bought another and 55k later all I have done is put petrol and tyres on it. If this can be achieved on 4 wheels, why not 2? Bikes are no more complex than cars. However I do agree that bikes are individual beasts with different owners giving them different treatment. Those who happily thrash the living daylights out of their bike on and off road must expect to get more problems than those who dont, but sadly many tales of woe on here are from low mileage road only use as I read it.
It would be nice to stop worrying and just ride the damn thing. I will give that a try!

 

[vfxmark]

on the other hand, I don't want to sound like an apologist for bmw... quite some time ago they seem to have decided to use us (the buying public) as their test-bed and we have had a number of mechanical weaknesses inflicted upon us...and no excuse for that.

these bikes are certainly more complicated than in the olden days...

I also have a very reliable Nissan (Pathfinder) - 8 years old - but I don't have nearly as much fun driving it - front wheels never come off the ground - I never floor it through the gears.... I rarely brake as hard as with my bike....

and yet I had to replace brake rotors, and a crank angle sensor (cheap and easy - that) ,,, and the seat adjusting motor is a bit temperamental ...and the cd changer had to be swtiched (that cost a bit even with me removing it and sending it in instead of taking it in for repair)....and I had to spend a few hundred dollars to have them re-program the computer that was falsly claiming that the 02 sensors needed replacing...

...but it has been a very long time since I had to spray ether into a carb to get something started on a cold day...I think our expectations of reliability have changed over the years.

i still won't leave home without the credit card

 

[Pauly S]

or your breakdown card

dont forget the RAC card either...

 

[Big Lee]

Well mines been reasonably ok so far(54 plate 23k miles) and I`ve saved the £1500 I would`ve spent on warranties and stuck it in the bank (1st & 2nd years £600 3rd year £300ish) So that should pay for some repairs in the future.

There isn`t half some whingeing buggers on here though

 

[dogman]

Well mines been reasonably ok so far(54 plate 23k miles) and I`ve saved the £1500 I would`ve spent on warranties and stuck it in the bank (1st & 2nd years £600 3rd year £300ish) So that should pay for some repairs in the future.

There isn`t half some whingeing buggers on here though

Eh Big Lee,
Just think if you carry on putting that money away and you get no problems with your bike, in 25 years time you will be able to buy a new one..cash! well almost

 

[Big Lee]

Never thought of that

In effect I`m "warrantying" my own bike. I`ve got £1500 in the bank to pay for any failures, if nowt goes wrong for a year another £300 goes in the pot and not into someone elses bank. I do a far more comprehensive warranty on my bike than anyone else and don`t bubble about it if I don`t decide to pay out for a new bit thats corroded

 

[smirnoff2008]

thing is other bike manufacturers are no better try getting in touch with honda customer service people or try getting them to reply to you, after all there is no weave on a st1300 its all imagination lol and never there bike.

 

[Riktus]

Interesting thread......
I dont often join in this BMW bashing BUT

I have a fault that I regard as not too serious but the bike does keep letting me down, the dealer trying his best to sort it but BMW Tech dont seem interested.

So I decided last night that i will try a few bikes from the competitors then I will vote with my wallet - no fuss no hassle - just buy something different and hope it doesnt keep letting me down like this one.

Easy really!

Rik