A different Oil Filter Problem

[Doug]

Just been up big brother's (Dickieboy) to help with servicing his bike, the oil filter was stuck, didn't have any sand/emery paper so went straight to the self tappers through the filter removal tool method.
End result is that the filter is turning but not coming off, when it turns it turns with a little resistance and then a lot of resistance continually.
The self tappers haven't ripped the filter so has anyone any idea as to what's happened, is it that the thread of the filter is now stripped or could it be something more serious and more importantly WTF do we do now?

 

[Steptoe]

Just been up big brother's (Dickieboy) to help with servicing his bike, the oil filter was stuck, didn't have any sand/emery paper so went straight to the self tappers through the filter removal tool method.
End result is that the filter is turning but not coming off, when it turns it turns with a little resistance and then a lot of resistance continually.
The self tappers haven't ripped the filter so has anyone any idea as to what's happened, is it that the thread of the filter is now stripped or could it be something more serious and more importantly WTF do we do now?

By your discription I'd guess at your thread explanation. Ride it to someone who knows how to remove it...........

Oh you can't, you've punctured the oil filter.

Hence why you should never use self tappers in the filter.
Let this be a lesson to others - Once you go down that route you limit your choices. And why i'll never recommend it. It's sand/emery paper or nothing.

 

[Doug]

By your discription I'd guess at your thread explanation. Ride it to someone who knows how to remove it...........

Oh you can't, you've punctured the oil filter.

Hence why you should never use self tappers in the filter.
Let this be a lesson to others - Once you go down that route you limit your choices. And why i'll never recommend it. It's sand/emery paper or nothing.

OK lesson now learned albeit the hard way, what can you suggest as a way out of the mess?

 

[warmshed]

If you use fibre washers on the self tappers they will hold the oil back so no harm done. If the thread has gone you would not be able to ride it anyway as it will leak at the thread.



Your description does not sound like stripped thread to me, I would think that the top threaded plate has come loose on the outer can, the can is revolving on it giving you the varying resistance you describe.

I would peel off the can and innards, awkward and messy job, though you can use one of your self tapper holes to drain the filter. You will then need to make a tool to engage with the holes in the top plate and unscrew it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGZea0w20H0
This video shows the job being done on the triumph, unfortunately the BMW filter is a bit shielded so will be fiddly.

Perhaps someone will be able to offer some HELPFUL suggestion that will help.

 

[Doug]

If you use fibre washers on the self tappers they will hold the oil back so no harm done. If the thread has gone you would not be able to ride it anyway as it will leak at the thread.



Your description does not sound like stripped thread to me, I would think that the top threaded plate has come loose on the outer can, the can is revolving on it giving you the varying resistance you describe.

I would peel off the can and innards, awkward and messy job, though you can use one of your self tapper holes to drain the filter. You will then need to make a tool to engage with the holes in the top plate and unscrew it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGZea0w20H0
This video shows the job being done on the triumph, unfortunately the BMW filter is a bit shielded so will be fiddly.

Perhaps someone will be able to offer some HELPFUL suggestion that will help.

Yes I think the can has broken away as well.
I think I'm going to lay the bike down on the lawn and get butchering away. That tool on the video looks useful, maybe use a long bar for the GS!

All answers welcome, helpful or not I was after all about to drive it to Cardiff with a filter full of holes til Steptoe pointed out the error of my ways

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Where are the pictures? I'd like to see this exercise carried out.

BTW. Your recoil kit is M14 x 1.25 IIRC and quite expensive.

 

[Doug]

Where are the pictures? I'd like to see this exercise carried out.

BTW. Your recoil kit is M14 x 1.25 IIRC and quite expensive.

Recoil kit? We're not going to need one of those

A picture of an oil filter full of holes isn't very interesting, but you could just pop out with a hammer and nail and live the real thing

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Recoil kit? We're not going to need one of those

A picture of an oil filter full of holes isn't very interesting, but you could just pop out with a hammer and nail and live the real thing

Excellent. I do look forward to hearing how you resolve your problem because it could be useful to someone else. Not me obviously.

 

[Doug]

Excellent. I do look forward to hearing how you resolve your problem because it could be useful to someone else. Not me obviously.

It's on Dickieboys bike not mine, but I did suggest the self tapper method which has feked the filter, a gamble that never paid off! but hey ho we'll just have to get on with it

 

[DrFarkoff]

I had something like this on Yosarian's missus' R850 R to sort out

Someone had put a SCHITTY HiFlo filter on the outer skin had separated from the flat plate that screws on to the oil spigot

I ended up carefully laying the bike over on it's side on tyres with the tank off

I cut as much of the outer skin off as possible so I could get the gubbins out and down to the flat plate with the threads then I welded with big "Tacks" a bit of angle iron in three spots to get a decent grip and the I used a pair of BIG fuck off stiltsens to twist the angle iron and hey ho the Filter base surrendered

It wasn;t too bad a job BUt I guess you know why I hate HiFlo schite filters now They are fine if they are installed as per spec BUT everyone thinks Oooh that's not very tight and they keep twisting!

I had a friend of mine come down on a 1200 and he had turned it so far the centre plate that is normally flat was twisted right up and formed a dome

He asks me to change his oil and filter for him now!

 

[warmshed]

It's on Dickieboys bike not mine, but I did suggest the self tapper method which has feked the filter, a gamble that never paid off! but hey ho we'll just have to get on with it

It did pay off really, , the top would still have parted with the can whatever you used. if you had just tried abrasive paper it would not have released the filter so you would not have achieved anything. The only way after that is what you have done or screwdriver or such through it.

This is not so uncommon though maybe more so on cars. I think this is another reason why I do my own servicing, the filter was either a cheap or faulty one or it was tightened too much or the ring not lubricated. If I had paid someone to do that I would not be too pleased. If you had done it yourself then lesson learnt and no repeat in the future.

If you have trouble removing the top ring once you have used your tin opener I would be pleased to make a tool to fit the holes if you have a couple of days.

 

[Steptoe]

Yes I think the can has broken away as well.

IF the can has broken away (i'll join in with all the guessing) - get an oxy torch and melt the rubber gasket on the filter plate, then you'll be able to use your fingers to undo it (once it's cooled down ).

 

[The Grey One]

Dangerous!

IF the can has broken away (i'll join in with all the guessing) - get an oxy torch and melt the rubber gasket on the filter plate, then you'll be able to use your fingers to undo it (once it's cooled down ).

I think you should say-- Get someone who knows what they are doing...... The thought of an oxy torch in the hands of people who use self tappers in an oil filter make me glad I am so far away from the consequences.

John

 

[Doug]

It did pay off really, , the top would still have parted with the can whatever you used. if you had just tried abrasive paper it would not have released the filter so you would not have achieved anything. The only way after that is what you have done or screwdriver or such through it.

This is not so uncommon though maybe more so on cars. I think this is another reason why I do my own servicing, the filter was either a cheap or faulty one or it was tightened too much or the ring not lubricated. If I had paid someone to do that I would not be too pleased. If you had done it yourself then lesson learnt and no repeat in the future.

If you have trouble removing the top ring once you have used your tin opener I would be pleased to make a tool to fit the holes if you have a couple of days.

Thanks Warmshed, We're going to do it tomorrow, I'm sure I could knock something up, all those years watching Blue Peter haven't gone to waste

IF the can has broken away (i'll join in with all the guessing) - get an oxy torch and melt the rubber gasket on the filter plate, then you'll be able to use your fingers to undo it (once it's cooled down ).

I'm pretty certain that's what has happened, the thread isn't under stress unless its been way over tightened, the bike recently got very hot so I would have thought the rubber gasket has welded to the casing.
Thanks for the input Neil I may well give that a go as a last resort...do you want first dibs on anything that might be left

I think you should say-- Get someone who knows what they are doing...... The thought of an oxy torch in the hands of people who use self tappers in an oil filter make me glad I am so far away from the consequences.

John

Thank you for your input John, just to ease your mind I'm a time served fabricator/welder, whilst I've moved on the last few years I do remember things getting hot....ahhh the old workshop, there's a couple of houses there now

But we are like minded in one way, I'm also glad your far away

 

[GlynnJ]

Thank you for your input John, just to ease your mind I'm a time served fabricator/welder, whilst I've moved on the last few years I do remember things getting hot....ahhh the old workshop, there's a couple of houses there now

But we are like minded in one way, I'm also glad your far away

 

[MattW]

I took a new filter to bits a while ago to find out whether Champion oil filters contained bypass valves....
www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232858

Anyway, from the above you can see what they're like inside. If you 'open' the bottom of the can, you'll be able to withdraw the filter cartridge and make up some sort of big mutha peg spanner to engage in the holes in the threaded top plate.

At least that's what I'd do...

 

[Doug]

I took a new filter to bits a while ago to find out whether Champion oil filters contained bypass valves....
www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232858

Anyway, from the above you can see what they're like inside. If you 'open' the bottom of the can, you'll be able to withdraw the filter cartridge and make up some sort of big mutha peg spanner to engage in the holes in the threaded top plate.

At least that's what I'd do...

Cheers Matt

 

[The Grey One]

Thank you for your input John, just to ease your mind I'm a time served fabricator/welder, whilst I've moved on the last few years I do remember things getting hot....ahhh the old workshop, there's a couple of houses there now

But we are like minded in one way, I'm also glad your far away

Sorry Doug, I did not intend to cause offence,obviously you will be at home with an Oxy torch with your experience. My comments were intended for the forum as a whole. In my 30 years of running my garage business I saw some of the results of people doing things which they clearly should have left alone. One guy rang and slag me off for selling him crap brake pads, finally persuaded him to bring the car in only to find he had fitted all four pads the wrong way round with the metal backing rubbing on the (by then knackered) discs. I'm sure you will agree that the thought of someone like this being let loose with an Oxy. torch is enough to scare anyone. So my apologies if I caused offence- your response did make me laugh though-just the sort of thing I might have written myself!

John

 

[warmshed]

Hope your next entry is a success statement.

 

[Doug]

Sorry Doug, I did not intend to cause offence,obviously you will be at home with an Oxy torch with your experience. My comments were intended for the forum as a whole. In my 30 years of running my garage business I saw some of the results of people doing things which they clearly should have left alone. One guy rang and slag me off for selling him crap brake pads, finally persuaded him to bring the car in only to find he had fitted all four pads the wrong way round with the metal backing rubbing on the (by then knackered) discs. I'm sure you will agree that the thought of someone like this being let loose with an Oxy. torch is enough to scare anyone. So my apologies if I caused offence- your response did make me laugh though-just the sort of thing I might have written myself!

John

No problem John you didn't cause me any offence. Mind you I'm not so sure about Dickieboy, he's still going on about how you sold him back to front brake pads!

Hope your next entry is a success statement.

I'm sure it will......wait a minute...this is my next entry