ag1s
Guest
Engineer said:
There is nothing wrong! I just wouldn't expect such a statement from a qualified engineer, that's all!
Children are as corrupt as the adults who bring them up.
There is nothing wrong! I just wouldn't expect such a statement from a qualified engineer, that's all!
Children are as corrupt as the adults who bring them up.
ktmmark
Registered user
Shit happens, i woke up this morning so thats a good start
ag1s said:
My two are angels
)I must say I'm baffled as to why expressing a professional opinion is childish - unless of course the best engineers are children
)
I'm a qualified engineer, not that I value my own opinion any higher than anyone elses. I reckon that even one ABS system failure warrants investigation by BMW in the interest of customer safety.
How childish would you like me to be ???
I have no axe to grind, unlike Dr ABS, and if I did, I would probably use a file to sharpen it instead.
How childish would you like me to be ???
I have no axe to grind, unlike Dr ABS, and if I did, I would probably use a file to sharpen it instead.
Deadskin
Registered user
How many 1200 ABS failures have there actually been ?
Gauloises said:
Nobody really knows - what is the definition of a fail? Without a precise definition to test failure against it is impossible to say.
In my humble experience and knowledge of this system - I would 'guess' that there have been very, very few genuine complete brake failures. But of course one is too many.
riverking
Guest
Engineer said:
As a profffessssional injunear mesel (25 years ago I couldn't even spel it an now I ar wun), I cannot see how you can "express a professional opinion" and make the above statement. Is it a 'professional opinion' or a 'guess'?
TerryM
Guest
They are not mutually exclusive!
Since first taking an interest in this forum about a year ago I have seen claims of and comments about abs failure. Many were from people who had not even bothered to read the manual, which explains how the abs/servo functions, and that they will not do so unless the start up procedure is allowed to proceed uninterrupted. Those who were unaware of this information and claimed a failure on that basis were surely mistaken.
So, having disposed of maloperation due to ignorance of the manual as a failure attributable to the bike, what are we left with as abs failure?
From my reading of posts not a lot, but I probably have not read all even in this forum(I got bored with repetition of pseudo engineering understanding going around)and no doubt the rest of BM land is peppered with similar thoughts. So I would not blame anyone for expressing a PO based in reasonable understanding of the system while using "guess" to qualify the conclusion.Quite clearly the information to make a definitive analysis is fragmented and may(dare I say probably?)not exist.
But there is some perspective on the matter based in BMW abs system design going back to the eary 1970's to my own certain knowledge, and probably considerably earlier. And that is the use of pumped hydraulic servo brake assist and then abs on BMW cars. I drove many and friends owned them for years and they worked well. They certainly seemed just as, if not more, reliable than vacuum systems which are prey to problems with repeated use due to lack of vacuum capacity in the servo. And as BMW are just a lazy as anyone else I do not doubt that they used the know how from the cars on their bikes. Just a matter of scale down really.
And as it seems now to be feasible to metamorphose into a generic engineer over a period without a) any desire to do so; b)more than minimal education in english language, and perhaps in engineering also
r c)acquiring the analytical skill to wield the knowledge; I am now going to rest in the confident expectation of soon waking as a rocket scientist, thirty years younger, with vast inherited wealth and a fascination for women only I can imagine!
That being the case I can only depart in the pious hope that anyone who thinks that they have abs failure hire a well qualified automotive engineer(Society of Automotive Engineers are on the net and lots of members will take your fee income)take it to law and leave the rest of us in peace to play with our toys.
And the same goes for the"will my mineral/synthetic/engine/gearbox/final drive,shock absorber oil work for more than five nanoseconds in this cruel cruel world if I do not have it DNA tested once a minute" mob.
Bitch over. Now about my fascination for the fairer sex. That would make a high quality, if short, thread.
riverking said:As a profffessssional injunear mesel (25 years ago I couldn't even spel it an now I ar wun), I cannot see how you can "express a professional opinion" and make the above statement. Is it a 'professional opinion' or a 'guess'?
Since first taking an interest in this forum about a year ago I have seen claims of and comments about abs failure. Many were from people who had not even bothered to read the manual, which explains how the abs/servo functions, and that they will not do so unless the start up procedure is allowed to proceed uninterrupted. Those who were unaware of this information and claimed a failure on that basis were surely mistaken.
So, having disposed of maloperation due to ignorance of the manual as a failure attributable to the bike, what are we left with as abs failure?
From my reading of posts not a lot, but I probably have not read all even in this forum(I got bored with repetition of pseudo engineering understanding going around)and no doubt the rest of BM land is peppered with similar thoughts. So I would not blame anyone for expressing a PO based in reasonable understanding of the system while using "guess" to qualify the conclusion.Quite clearly the information to make a definitive analysis is fragmented and may(dare I say probably?)not exist.
But there is some perspective on the matter based in BMW abs system design going back to the eary 1970's to my own certain knowledge, and probably considerably earlier. And that is the use of pumped hydraulic servo brake assist and then abs on BMW cars. I drove many and friends owned them for years and they worked well. They certainly seemed just as, if not more, reliable than vacuum systems which are prey to problems with repeated use due to lack of vacuum capacity in the servo. And as BMW are just a lazy as anyone else I do not doubt that they used the know how from the cars on their bikes. Just a matter of scale down really.
And as it seems now to be feasible to metamorphose into a generic engineer over a period without a) any desire to do so; b)more than minimal education in english language, and perhaps in engineering also
r c)acquiring the analytical skill to wield the knowledge; I am now going to rest in the confident expectation of soon waking as a rocket scientist, thirty years younger, with vast inherited wealth and a fascination for women only I can imagine!That being the case I can only depart in the pious hope that anyone who thinks that they have abs failure hire a well qualified automotive engineer(Society of Automotive Engineers are on the net and lots of members will take your fee income)take it to law and leave the rest of us in peace to play with our toys.
And the same goes for the"will my mineral/synthetic/engine/gearbox/final drive,shock absorber oil work for more than five nanoseconds in this cruel cruel world if I do not have it DNA tested once a minute" mob.
Bitch over. Now about my fascination for the fairer sex. That would make a high quality, if short, thread.
riverking
Guest
"They are not mutually exclusive"
Proffesor (Sir) Roy Meadows may disagree!
(it was tongue-in cheek and yes I am a professional engineer myself, though it rather surprises me that some folks seem to believe that BMW do not have any decent engineeers themselves!)
Proffesor (Sir) Roy Meadows may disagree!
(it was tongue-in cheek and yes I am a professional engineer myself, though it rather surprises me that some folks seem to believe that BMW do not have any decent engineeers themselves!)
riverking said:As a profffessssional injunear mesel (25 years ago I couldn't even spel it an now I ar wun), I cannot see how you can "express a professional opinion" and make the above statement. Is it a 'professional opinion' or a 'guess'?
OK you caught me out - replace "guess" with "estimate" based upon a liitle bit of dangerous knowledge
)
Re: They are not mutually exclusive!
Rocket science is relatively easy - rocket engineering is bloody difficult - I know this 'cos I once studied THE 'rocket-equation' and it takes about 5 mins. Rocket engineering on the other hand seems more like black magic.) So I gave it all up and did electronics instead )
The latest Shuttle problem is an example.
Rocket science is relatively easy - rocket engineering is bloody difficult - I know this 'cos I once studied THE 'rocket-equation' and it takes about 5 mins. Rocket engineering on the other hand seems more like black magic.
) So I gave it all up and did electronics instead )The latest Shuttle problem is an example.
ag1s
Guest
Re: Re: They are not mutually exclusive!
Engineer,
Hold your horses! RiverKing summed up my view, a scientific/engineering opinion that is of some value is only one that is a product of meticulous experimentation and thought, and you have done none of them regarding the abs brakes of r1200gs. Am I wrong?
Now as far as I am concerned (others will disagree) I find your nickname 'Engineer' a bit pretentious but nevertheless a agood oportunity for sarcasm. (gime more!)
Now it so happens that 'rocket science' is a term describing a field of science that does not exist and The rocket equation you 'studied' is nothing more than newton's law of conservation of momentum for systems of variable mass.
Typical highschool exercise in countries with decent educational systems.
So, saying that 'rocket science is easy' is as if you say 'I found a medium size stone'
Engineer,
Hold your horses! RiverKing summed up my view, a scientific/engineering opinion that is of some value is only one that is a product of meticulous experimentation and thought, and you have done none of them regarding the abs brakes of r1200gs. Am I wrong?
Now as far as I am concerned (others will disagree) I find your nickname 'Engineer' a bit pretentious but nevertheless a agood oportunity for sarcasm. (gime more!)
Now it so happens that 'rocket science' is a term describing a field of science that does not exist and The rocket equation you 'studied' is nothing more than newton's law of conservation of momentum for systems of variable mass.
Typical highschool exercise in countries with decent educational systems.
So, saying that 'rocket science is easy' is as if you say 'I found a medium size stone'
Engineer said:Rocket science is relatively easy - rocket engineering is bloody difficult - I know this 'cos I once studied THE 'rocket-equation' and it takes about 5 mins. Rocket engineering on the other hand seems more like black magic.
The latest Shuttle problem is an example.
Re: Re: Re: They are not mutually exclusive!
Eeeeek - seems like humourous banter is no longer PC here.
Nicknames - or user names or whatever they are called are often made up on the spur of the moment when registering with Internet Forums - I don't know why other people choose theirs - but if someone is a Lawyer, Doctor, Accountant, Nurse, Footballer, Bricklayer, Rodent..... or whatever then it would not unreasonable for them to use it in someway in a username - I am an Engineer, so used that, and the registration process didn't throw it out - nothing more than that.
Personally I think that Internet nicknames are silly but, hey it seems like it is part of standard internet fourm culture - so I go along with it.
P.S. by the way I have researched the operation of these brakes and test ridden two RG1200S's fitted with the system and own an RG1200S that isn't fitted with ABS/SERVO brakes - so I am at least as qualified to comment on the system as anyone else.
Time for a change of subject methinks as this has digressed too far from the original question.
ag1s said:
Eeeeek - seems like humourous banter is no longer PC here.
Nicknames - or user names or whatever they are called are often made up on the spur of the moment when registering with Internet Forums - I don't know why other people choose theirs - but if someone is a Lawyer, Doctor, Accountant, Nurse, Footballer, Bricklayer, Rodent..... or whatever then it would not unreasonable for them to use it in someway in a username - I am an Engineer, so used that, and the registration process didn't throw it out - nothing more than that.
Personally I think that Internet nicknames are silly but, hey it seems like it is part of standard internet fourm culture - so I go along with it.
P.S. by the way I have researched the operation of these brakes and test ridden two RG1200S's fitted with the system and own an RG1200S that isn't fitted with ABS/SERVO brakes - so I am at least as qualified to comment on the system as anyone else.
Time for a change of subject methinks as this has digressed too far from the original question.
nud1e
Registered user
Was is the Ford Pinto?
Was it the Pinto that had the unenviable reputation of incinerating its occupants after rear end collision?
The bean counters decided that it was cheaper to compensate the victims or their families that to recall all the cars are fix the problem, which was an engineering designed problem.
Didn't it take some obsessive individual to pursue the manufacturers until they admitted the problem.
More info can be found at
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1977/09/dowie.html
I am not an engineer, none of my bikes have servos or ABS - it keeps my mind focussed when riding.
Was it the Pinto that had the unenviable reputation of incinerating its occupants after rear end collision?
The bean counters decided that it was cheaper to compensate the victims or their families that to recall all the cars are fix the problem, which was an engineering designed problem.
Didn't it take some obsessive individual to pursue the manufacturers until they admitted the problem.
More info can be found at
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1977/09/dowie.html
I am not an engineer, none of my bikes have servos or ABS - it keeps my mind focussed when riding.
KAYCEE
Registered user
I met a German GS Rider (1150) the other week and he stated that he had heard that BMW were working towards a "fix" for the ABS system with a recall expected around Xmas time.
Doin't know if this is an urban myth or not, perhaps just gossip.
Gonzo
Registered user
Gonzo said:
I glad that I chose the non- ABS option when I bought my 1200GS in April - even though I suspect that all the hoooo- harr about the Servo/ABS brakes has been exaggerated. If there is a perceived weakness in the system (justified or not) then it is bound to affect the re-sale value of those bikes fitted with the system.
Rakthi
Guest
I'm very glad I have the ABS option because yesterday a car pulled out off a private parking lot on to the main road, right in front of me ... Without ABS there would have been nothing to resell!
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