ABS removal and MOT

[ELIMINATOR]

Just read this on an FJ1200 Forum.

Anyone know anything about this? Also posted this in the " Beackchat & bollacks" section.


UK MOT test regulations on ABS v's brake upgrades
« on: Yesterday at 09:31:23 AM »
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My 92 FJ ABS is currently in having the blue dot upgrade done (amoungst some other bits and pieces). I popped in to check on progress and the mechanic said there was a bit of a problem! Ok, I said, what is it? Thinking there was some major mechanical malfunction with the calipers and master cylinder i had provided

New MOT regs here in the UK (he did tell me from when but i forget the date he said) state that any bike fitted with ABS can no longer have it disabled or removed!! As he knows the bike well and acknowledges that the new brakes will be way better and therefore safer than the original ABS was anyway, he is happy to plead ignorance and pass it during its annual MOT test. But did say that he shouldnt and if i take it elsewhere in the future, strictly speaking they will most likly fail it.

I did highlight that ABS was optional until about my year of manufacturer so unless an anorak (like most of us on here) how would they know whether it had it or not!! Not widthstanding the large ABS decals on the side of course, but as we know they dont mean anything, they can be removed, painted over or the panels transplanted between similar but not identicle bikes!!

Anyone else come across this issue? I appreciate this is going to be a bit of a uk focused question but any thoughts/advice welcome. Any other brits found this problem and therefore a way round it? scratch_one-s_head

 

[MikeP]

Just supposing someone disabled the ABS on say an old K-Series that has the ABS pumps clearly hung on each side of the bike. The question is, "how would an MoT examiner know?"

The rolling brake test doesn't bring ABS into operation during the examination. What other way is there to test the operation of ABS except to brake hard enough for it to do its job?

 

[Mick_rw]

I had my bike MOT'ed last week, whilst in there was talking to the MOT tester, also the garage Motorcycle department director/manager, we were discussing a 1200GS which he was about to remove the ABS system from as the customer did not want to pay the £2000+ to have it repaired.

I would assume that if the if after that ABS removal made the bike unroad worthy, MOT wise, he would have mentioned it....

 

[red1]

From what I heard, any equipment fitted to a vehicle during manufacture must be fitted and working at MoT. This applys to ABS, traction control, etc.,etc. and all the other electronic bits cars get these days.

Not sure if it applys to bikes.

 

[Colin]

R850R ABS

Took my 2004 R850R for mot last Friday, 31 may. I removed all the ABS and servo last year. He never said anything about it, bike passed ok.
best thing I ever done, removing all that crap, I also removed the alarm/immobaliser and put that in the bin.

 

[DollyRocket]

Had the Servo / ABS removed from my gs for several years. Each MOT the bike passes and gets a good brake test result.
He never mentions anything about the ABS - He wants to know if it starts, stops and doesn't fall apart when it is moving.

 

[Timolgra]

If it's fitted, it should work.

If it's not...........

 

[Timpo]

If a bike can come from the factory with or without abs, then it has type approval for both, ie, stated on the CoC declaration iirc.....
If it only leaves the factory is abs form, them removal is illegal as the bike has not been tested in the non-abs form.
This, should your insurance company ever need to investigate, would void any claim by you or a third party..... dropping you right in the shite!!!

 

[Timolgra]

If a bike can come from the factory with or without abs, then it has type approval for both, ie, stated on the CoC declaration iirc.....
If it only leaves the factory is abs form, them removal is illegal as the bike has not been tested in the non-abs form.
This, should your insurance company ever need to investigate, would void any claim by you or a third party..... dropping you right in the shite!!!

Gulp!

But what if the bike is available with and without abs, does type approval not cover that?

 

[(RIP) Miff]

From what I heard, any equipment fitted to a vehicle during manufacture must be fitted and working at MoT. This applys to ABS, traction control, etc.,etc. and all the other electronic bits cars get these days.

Not sure if it applys to bikes.

So how do bikes get a "Daytime" MOT??

 

[BOBAD]

If a bike can come from the factory with or without abs, then it has type approval for both, ie, stated on the CoC declaration iirc.....
If it only leaves the factory is abs form, them removal is illegal as the bike has not been tested in the non-abs form.
This, should your insurance company ever need to investigate, would void any claim by you or a third party..... dropping you right in the shite!!!

Your reply makes a lot of sense.

I have owned a 2001 1150GS since new and ABS was an option which I didn't want when I ordered the bike, so obviously BMW has received type-approval for this year model otherwise it couldn't have been put on sale.

 

[red1]

If a bike can come from the factory with or without abs, then it has type approval for both, ie, stated on the CoC declaration iirc.....
If it only leaves the factory is abs form, them removal is illegal as the bike has not been tested in the non-abs form.
This, should your insurance company ever need to investigate, would void any claim by you or a third party..... dropping you right in the shite!!!

Nothing to do with type approval.
As with cars, you can choose any number of "standard" specs. The base models come with nowt and the top models have everything on them. They don't type approve each spec, just the basic car. It would be impossible to type approve say a Mondeo in every conceivable form.

With regard to the GS, does the non-ABS version have a non-working ABS light on the dash? Same with traction control. It there a non-functioning light aperture on the dash?
If the ABS warning light flashes even though it's disconnected that's a probable MOT fail.

 

[Black Rooster]

So how do bikes get a "Daytime" MOT??

i dont think there is such a thing as daytime MOT it just says " lights not fiited/ or tested

if i rember correctly and you will get in the shite if ur use it in day time in poor light

 

[warmshed]

Other things to look out for :-
"A catalytic convertor fitted as original equipment but missing will be a reason for failure."

"high intensity discharge headlamps, washing and levelling systems"

However a loophole? the government services website says the new rules

"will affect cars, light goods vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, buses and trailers." no bikes mentioned??

 

[Trullion]

Other things to look out for :-
"A catalytic convertor fitted as original equipment but missing will be a reason for failure."

"high intensity discharge headlamps, washing and levelling systems"

However a loophole? the government services website says the new rules

"will affect cars, light goods vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, buses and trailers." no bikes mentioned??

There are separate guidelines for MOT testers for cars/light vans and motorcycles. Those for cars were updated in January 2012 and cover new things such as DSC (anti-lock) warning lights being on when they shouldn't (my car has just had to have a new ABS modulator because of this). The guidelines for bikes haven't been amended since December 2006, so assuming the latest are available on the web site, the new aspects of the test don't apply to motorcycles. Google something like "motinfo" and you should find a link to the MOT tester's guidelines for both cars and bikes in downloadable pdf format.

 

[CPL]

At present, MOT inspections cover only a few of the necessary road legal requirements and are only designed to make sure the thing's not a death trap... Having an MOT doesn't necessarilly make the bike "road legal" if construction and use requirements are not upheld. (you can see the test requirements for yourself on the DVLA/VOSA website)

I used to build custom bikes and in so doing, was compelled to seek legal advice on several occasions regarding these sort of things and in 1999, the advice given to me regarding "construction and use" was as follows:

If your bike was designed, built and sold with a "factory standard" safety feature, it is an offence under the act to modify, remove, or replace it with an item not designed for that vehicle unless that modification is declared and a VOSA inspection carried out and entered on the vehicle's detailed records under the "modifications" section

The problem where "standard" fitting is required comes from "construction and use" regulations, where the removal of any part deemed "necessary to retain operational integrity and integral to the original designs safety parameters (type approval basically) is an offence (even if the new part is better!) unless it is replaced with a component designed specifically for that model.

This also applies to the removal, or extreme reduction of mudguards, removal of chain guards, indicators, exhaust heat shields and all those little things often discarded on "custom bikes"

Any item fitted as a "factory option" or "custom request" is deemed to be an addition to the vehicle "post-production" under the act unless it replaces a different, standard part (in which case that part would have to be retro-fitted)

If the law had been changed to include the removal, or disablement of factory option parts, under current UK system, it could not be introduced retrospectively as far as I am aware and the police/VOSA would have to prove that the removal/disablement was performed AFTER the amendment to the act came into force.

I am quite prepared to be shot down in flames if my recollection is faulty... So I shall now don my fireproof suit!

 

[Timolgra]

The problem where "standard" fitting is required comes from "construction and use" regulations, where the removal of any part deemed "necessary to retain operational integrity and integral to the original designs safety parameters (type approval basically) is an offence (even if the new part is better!) unless it is replaced with a component designed specifically for that model.

But can that be correctly interpreted as, "replaced with components for the non abs model?"

good post btw

 

[CPL]

Providing the specific vehicle was offered with the components as an "either, or" selection and the rest of the braking system is the same, it's fine as far as I know..

I used to modify FJ1200s and ST1100s a lot and it was then that I asked our company solicitor to find out... But as I said earlier.. It was a few years ago, so it wouldn't hurt to nip up to your local VOSA centre and just have a word with the inspector.... They've always been really helpful in my experience, even if they don't necessarily tell you what you want to hear..

 

[Johny w]

I've just declared to my insurance that I've removed my ABS a d they have came back asking why I removed it. I explained it was dangerous and other models had no ABS fitted as standard. It also is switchable!! .....So I'm not very confident they'll dyltill cover me.
I had it MOT'd and they told me, if its fitted it should be working.
I completely removed mine, including all lines and components, apart from the brains.

 

[Paul Young]

I've just declared to my insurance that I've removed my ABS a d they have came back asking why I removed it. I explained it was dangerous and other models had no ABS fitted as standard. It also is switchable!! .....So I'm not very confident they'll dyltill cover me.
I had it MOT'd and they told me, if its fitted it should be working.
I completely removed mine, including all lines and components, apart from the brains.

It’s not an MOT testable item on my 2000 model. All they’re interested in is whether it passes the braking efficiency test. I’ve removed the relay and taken the dash bulbs out so it doesn’t even show it was fitted. The ABS sensors are a giveaway, though…