After 20K miles on the 1250 GS & 1250GS ADV - A honest review

And if Harley gets 152 hp out of a 1250 that even has hydraulic lifters it should be no problem for a company like BMW to top that easily and still offer gut-wrenching torque down low and in the middle thanks to shift-cam :thumby:

Harley does it by using VVT and BMW chose to try to do it by using Shiftcam. Harley produces more bhp than the beemer by revving higher, (almost twice as high as it’s big cruisers) but I believe it produces less torque than the BMW . The Harley figures we’ve seen here are as quoted by HD , have they been independently verified in the US yet BL?
 
Harley does it by using VVT and BMW chose to try to do it by using Shiftcam. Harley produces more bhp than the beemer by revving higher, (almost twice as high as itÂ’s big cruisers) but I believe it produces less torque than the BMW . The Harley figures weÂ’ve seen here are as quoted by HD , have they been independently verified in the US yet BL?

BMW didn't try to do it. They did it. Shiftcam is superior to VVT, even if the option is to choose between two cams rather than a fully variable system, which would be the best. However, the fully variable system would require a taller top, so the engine would become too wide. Perhaps some day we will see the Koenigsegg system also on bikes, unless the engines are shot down by the environmental crap.

Harleys engine is able to produce 122 Nm with their VVT, whereas the same cc BMW deliver 143. Ducate 1260 : 129 Nm, and KTM with + 50cc 140Nm. The lower HP from the BMW is caused by the limitation you get from a twin boxer that will loose torque at higher RPM due to pumping in the crankcase by the pistions connected to a 180 degree crank.

As for telelever vs fork, BMW selected to go for a regular fork on the LC R /RS due to the engine being water-cooled. The telelever requires extra room, and there was simply not space available for the radiator. On the GS/GSA the radiators are lifted up to each side, making the bike top-wide. This look was not desired for these bikes.

As for telelever on the S1000: Inline four makes it hard to combine. The K models went for the Hossak fork, but this makes the wheelbase longer. Not the best for a racing-bike.
Same goes for the smaller F-models with parallel twin. Telelever is out, and the Hossak solution would simply offer too short spring-travel. The F900XR and R would of course benefit from the Hossak solution, but this would call for a totally different frame. Doable, but silly, as, lets face it, regular forks works just fine for most riders as well...
 
BMW didn't try to do it. They did it. Shiftcam is superior to VVT, even if the option is to choose between two cams rather than a fully variable system, which would be the best. However, the fully variable system would require a taller top, so the engine would become too wide. Perhaps some day we will see the Koenigsegg system also on bikes, unless the engines are shot down by the environmental crap.

Harleys engine is able to produce 122 Nm with their VVT, whereas the same cc BMW deliver 143. Ducate 1260 : 129 Nm, and KTM with + 50cc 140Nm. The lower HP from the BMW is caused by the limitation you get from a twin boxer that will loose torque at higher RPM due to pumping in the crankcase by the pistions connected to a 180 degree crank.

As for telelever vs fork, BMW selected to go for a regular fork on the LC R /RS due to the engine being water-cooled. The telelever requires extra room, and there was simply not space available for the radiator. On the GS/GSA the radiators are lifted up to each side, making the bike top-wide. This look was not desired for these bikes.

As for telelever on the S1000: Inline four makes it hard to combine. The K models went for the Hossak fork, but this makes the wheelbase longer. Not the best for a racing-bike.
Same goes for the smaller F-models with parallel twin. Telelever is out, and the Hossak solution would simply offer too short spring-travel. The F900XR and R would of course benefit from the Hossak solution, but this would call for a totally different frame. Doable, but silly, as, lets face it, regular forks works just fine for most riders as well...
Absolutely correctamundo on all points, well written .


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Tannenbaum...As always you make ass-umptions and have no clue what you are talking about.Every car has a single shock and much more weight to deal with (400-500 kgs as compared to the GS 140 kilos) and no problem overheating.Always argue and talk sheet and never let the facts confuse you like the fact that a heavy GS-ADV on less grippy tires was faster than a lighter R1250R on the same handling test track thanks to TELELEVER :thumby:
End of story !
As for Harleys advertised 152 hp/125 nm out of their new 1250 which is no real V-twin because their 60 degree V is set off 30 degree at the crank to make it sound like a 90 degree twin...Of course these numbers are not verified and might be inflated like on the dyno where the 1250GS made 137 hp and 140 nm torque the KTM 1290 ADV-S made 155 hp and 133 nm torque the new MS V4 165 hp and 125 nm torque...cheaters;)
Up to 7000 rpm the BMW is by far the strongest at 8000 rpm the competition takes over...Nothing a M1300GS or even better a R1400XR with 160 hp/150nm could not solve...:thumby:
Interesting though the Harley like all Triumphs are made in Thailand...:(
And the Harley probably will be very stable in the sand and on windy highways but unrideable in the twisties with more than 150 mm's of trail...:eek:Compared the GS-ADV or GS with sports-suspension has only 95 mm's...
And yes VV-T is only a band-aide advancing or retarding the same cam-lobes...Shiftcam with 2 different cam-profiles ground for low to midrange rpm and the other for high rpm is much better and much more advanced but also more expensive to produce system !
 
Knut you are right on all accounts except you fell for BMW's marketing PR going back to forks on the slower selling R-R/S models.They did it for idiots like Tannenbaum who think forks are better because forks are used in MotoGP or WSBK and blamed the placement of the radiator while the radiator of the R/RS is WIDER than the 2 radiators on the GS...They did it to appease the idiots and make more money and maybe save a couple of pounds...A loss for the customers because a 1250R with Telelever could have been the 17" wheel GS a lot of buyers want as also a Telelever R1250S as sexy and practical as the R1100S was a bike you could tour on or ride to a track day to and then have a fun and capable bike to ride and then a bike to ride home on is sadly missing in todays boxer line...The RS has no Telelever,not enough ground clearance is too heavy and too slow steering.On testride said it all...The GS was way more fun to ride ! And it should have been the other way around because in it's day the R1100S was way more fun and capable than the R1150GS...I had Both !
 
Rushy...Like you said nothing except Harley-propaganda about the fake Harley yet...;)
But I expect the PanAmerica going the way of the Life-Wire that is already dead because nobody wanted it except these 2 idiots Charlie & Evan followed by a big Diesel generator to save the planet...;) They should have stuck to their guns and rode 2 1250GS-ADV or Urban GS's if they thought the LC is not cool enough for their grey beards...I really would have loved their mocumentary going from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego.But oh well now I have to do it myself and maybe Stick and Arsey come with me and maybe even Arseys fast friend Gilles on his pos Tuono will join in...:thumb
The PanAmerica will be the to Harley what the R18 is to BMW...a Huge seller...Not :D
Probably Harleys last bike because like the Live-Wire before...A lot of Harley dealerships won't even get one because all it will do is collect dust and rack up interest on the dealers floor-plan...
 
Arsey I already took the shot...I actually drank the whole bottle of Cava del Oro and then passed out...Should have listened and taken my Testosterone injection Before the trip,,,:D Sostenon 250 Hecho en Mexico !!!
As for the Scamdemic...Let Gates & Soros kill off the retirees so that Wall-Street can take their money.I will spend mine...In Mexico:beerjug:
 
:blast:blast:blast

Boxer rust. You're missing the point. Generally speaking most people think BMW has got it about right. BMW can sell every GS it makes so who cares what 1 septic tank thinks.
 
Stever what point am I missing ?
Of course the GS is a good bike but would I buy another one ? Probably not because it should be better...
- More Power
- lighter
- 24 liter tank
- right bag as big as the left one
- as agile as it is but also stable & 155mph with bags :thumby:
And yes BMW would even sell more GS's...:thumb
So what's are you whining about ?
Your septic tank clogged again because you are so full of sheet...;)
 
Stever what point am I missing ?
Of course the GS is a good bike but would I buy another one ? Probably not because it should be better...
- More Power
- lighter
- 24 liter tank
- right bag as big as the left one
- as agile as it is but also stable & 155mph with bags :thumby:
And yes BMW would even sell more GS's...:thumb
So what's are you whining about ?
Your septic tank clogged again because you are so full of sheet...;)

They might sell even more if they made it more reliable with better build quality .
I think very few owners need more power and only you needs to outrun the feds at 155 mph :-)
 
Arsey reliability and build quality is always very important ! But this costs money as also less weight costs more as lighter materials are more expensive materials.But to be honest english winters and salt will even weak Havoc on your fine japanese machine with paint so thin that after a few rides you can see rub marks from your knees on the tank or unpainted engine cases or bolts that corrode...On the Africa Twin the spokes already rusted looking at the clouds when moisture was in the air...And compared to KTM,Ducati and Harley , BMW quality/reliability is much better ! The only complaint I have is that the rubber can't take the intensity of the sun for many seasons...And of course as you know life would be better with 160 hp & 17" wheels...Maybe not since Ducati followed BMW's lead going to a 19" front on the new MS V4...:D
 
Tannenbaum...As always you make ass-umptions and have no clue what you are talking about.Every car has a single shock and much more weight to deal with (400-500 kgs as compared to the GS 140 kilos) and no problem overheating.Always argue and talk sheet and never let the facts confuse you like the fact that a heavy GS-ADV on less grippy tires was faster than a lighter R1250R on the same handling test track thanks to TELELEVER :thumby:
End of story !

If you drive your car as how you boast you ride your bike then you will definitely shorten the life of the shock drastically. Everybody who competes, do overland travel or track days be it tarmac or off road knows that shocks overheat, even those who drive in the back and beyond on gnarly 4x4 tracks prepare by replacing shocks for high quality items. My point stands and there is no arguing it away.

At least you read the first part of my post. Now you can read the second part.

...............A telelever solved a problem that existed decades ago in suspension design, but technology in suspension design negates that requirement. If a telelever is so good then the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturer with an R&D budget bigger than some countries' national budget has most certainly missed a trick. Maybe you should contact them to show them the error of their ways.

Your personal beliefs counts for zero because it can be rebuffed in a controller test.

It has all to do with brand identity and brand awareness. The RT and GS are the iconic BMW designs and hence stay true to the original. Much like HD engine designs.

Your arguments are one sided, biased and inaccurate. You are a mediocre rider with no specialist input into any development work of a motorcycle, accessory or tyre manufacturer. Who should we believe? Those with years of testing or competing at the highest level, project engineers, product engineers and companies researching, developing, manufacturing and testing of each component that makes up a motorcycle or you?

As for what is faster or better it is down to the person and what suits him and what he likes. You obviously need more seat time to get the best out of a bike that is not in the configuration that you prefer.
 
If you drive your car as how you boast you ride your bike then you will definitely shorten the life of the shock drastically. Everybody who competes, do overland travel or track days be it tarmac or off road knows that shocks overheat, even those who drive in the back and beyond on gnarly 4x4 tracks prepare by replacing shocks for high quality items. My point stands and there is no arguing it away.

At least you read the first part of my post. Now you can read the second part



As for what is faster or better it is down to the person and what suits him and what he likes. You obviously need more seat time to get the best out of a bike that is not in the configuration that you prefer.

no point in arguing with him. He's a professional driver ...............apparently. His real name is Ernie, and he drives the fastest milkfloat in the west..

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..And compared to KTM,Ducati and Harley , BMW quality/reliability is much better !

Well, it’s not often you’re right, but..............you’re wrong again. BMW quality is not better than Harley. I have both and the Harley is better, not by much but it is. More bollox hot air from someone that doesn’t even have a proper adult motorcycle.
 
Harley and quality...LOL You can't use these 2 words in the same sentence when you look all the rust a Harley collects in no time and the super-cheap parts & chrome sourced in taiwan...Look at the exhaust or bolts in a quality you expect from some chinese scooter!Probably from the same source...Harley is the biggest junk sold to old geezers for lots of money...But less takers every year so sales/profits are way down and the PanAmerican is at least 10 years to late to save the sinking ship...Made in Thailand,chain and the awful looks are non-starters...Why would anyone buy a H-D P/A over a GS or a KTM or Ducati mow without the De$mo-Non$en$e for that matter ?
Harley makes shiney looking boat-anchors that make a certain noise for people that like to dress up like gay pirates and think they are cool...;) Of course on top of that clogging the left lane and having overly loud exhaust pipes draws the wrong attention from joe average public who mistakes most motorcycle riders for these embarrassing clowns...
 
Harley makes shiney looking boat-anchors that make a certain noise for people that like to dress up like gay pirates and think they are cool...;) Of course on top of that clogging the left lane and having overly loud exhaust pipes draws the wrong attention from joe average public who mistakes most motorcycle riders for these embarrassing clowns...

:JB :JB

I'll try to remember that one. :aidan
 
\
we weighed spokes and cast wheels last year on my 1250 and spokes were lighter

Just read a review on the updated 2021 R9T and they stated , according to BMW, that the optional spoked wheels on that saved a total of 3kg approx ( I guess almost 1.5kg per wheel ) over the cast wheels.
 
Rushy the 3 kilos weight savings on the 2021 R Nine T are for the new optional Kineo like looking ones from BMW that are tubeless compared to the tubed ones that come stock on the R Nine T...The optional cast ones will be even lighter than the tubeless spoke wheels when you look at the different sizes of the wheels hubs ! Not the tubeless cast wheels on the R Nine T pure compared to the optional tubeless spoke wheels.Like I said a remember the cast wheels on the 1250GS were about 1 kilo lighter than the tubeless spoke wheels...Not the other way around like someone falsely mentioned.

Knut I have 2 more good Harley sayings worth remembering...;)
Harley-Davidson - The most efficient machine to turn gas into noise without the side effects of horsepower.
And What is the difference between a Harley and a vacuum cleaner ? The different position of the dirtbag...:D
Enjoy
 


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