After winter warm up!

[HxH]

Hi all,
After the long cold winters days, nights. I wanted to turn over my bike engine without it firing up.
Read on Utube, when starting bike after winter, start it with the kill button switched off.

Attempt#1: Kill Button switched off, turn over via the ignition starter......nothing, ziltch, nadda.
Attempt#2: Try the other method, Kill button on, turn and hold on full throttle and start ignition.

OMG! YiKe's, my ears, bike exploded into life, shut off full throttle instantly, wondering how much damage done to my poor old cold, dry engine parts, so much for Utube wannabe assistance advisors.

Outcome, bike engine has been running until warm, seems okay.
Moral of this story forget Utubers, stick to others with similar bikes, and use their advice or a trusted bike mechanic.

 

[Santa-2512]

Game over,
all those bone dry parts grinding against each other ... Lol.

If it had been stood for years, then perhaps turning it over by hand with some oil down the bores after 24 hrs etc , etc

Methinks you overthink things.

 

[HxH]

Game over,
all those bone dry parts grinding against each other ... Lol.

If it had been stood for years, then perhaps turning it over by hand with some oil down the bores after 24 hrs etc , etc

Methinks you overthink things.

I think your right, was only a few months non-start, so I guess engine parts pretty well lubricated from last run.
Did think about hand turning bike over with spark plugs removed, But did'nt. I'm still learning.

 

[Steptoe]

Unplug electrical onnectors to both fuel injectors, press starter button, engine will turn over but not start.

 

[HxH]

Unplug electrical onnectors to both fuel injectors, press starter button, engine will turn over but not start.

Thank you, that's a great solution for me, will make a note of it.

 

[botus]

turning by hand is even worse than cranking an engine to get oil pressure up - both ideas are super bad for an engine - by far the most wear is on cam lobes - and here you'll be cranking for at least 2 mins before they get any oil and could be trashed by then - with serious shear forces for a long time - whereas start it and get revs to 2000 rpm within a few seconds once the main bearings get some oil and the engine will survive

an oil pump is mostly doing nothing at all during cranking, and the dribble of nothingness won't get around anywhere - if you read articles about about looking after cams they say never let it turn over below 2k and never idle..... once running at 2k the pump will rapidly get oil around the whole engine and cam lobe shear will be tiny

 

[HxH]

turning by hand is even worse than cranking an engine to get oil pressure up - both ideas are super bad for an engine - by far the most wear is on cam lobes - and here you'll be cranking for at least 2 mins before they get any oil and could be trashed by then - with serious shear forces for a long time - whereas start it and get revs to 2000 rpm within a few seconds once the main bearings get some oil and the engine will survive

an oil pump is mostly doing nothing at all during cranking, and the dribble of nothingness won't get around anywhere - if you read articles about about looking after cams they say never let it turn over below 2k and never idle..... once running at 2k the pump will rapidly get oil around the whole engine and cam lobe shear will be tiny

That does make a whole lot of sense, Thank you for that.
Always was torn between starting bike during winter months, or just leave it until finer days.
Some advise taking bike for a good long run before storing it over winter....not starting weekly as this makes moisture develop around the engine.
Normal safety checks before starting, after it has sat, and run at 2k until warm before taking it out for a ride again. Thanks.

 

[TLSgazza]

turning by hand is even worse than cranking an engine to get oil pressure up - both ideas are super bad for an engine - by far the most wear is on cam lobes - and here you'll be cranking for at least 2 mins before they get any oil and could be trashed by then - with serious shear forces for a long time - whereas start it and get revs to 2000 rpm within a few seconds once the main bearings get some oil and the engine will survive

an oil pump is mostly doing nothing at all during cranking, and the dribble of nothingness won't get around anywhere - if you read articles about about looking after cams they say never let it turn over below 2k and never idle..... once running at 2k the pump will rapidly get oil around the whole engine and cam lobe shear will be tiny

Well in that case my engine must be fucked. I've always started it by pressing the button and letting it idle, never touching the throttle.
It does rev slightly higher than the warm tick over but not by much.

Oh hang on after 18 years and 147.000 miles of doing that everything appears to be fine.

You do make some strange statements at times.
I'm still going to do the same start up procedure despite your horror story.

 

[botus]

there's always lots of concerns....

bits like forks / suspension damper rod seals, clutch / brake master cyls, calipers and slave cylinders don't get any exercise...

but running up the engine in garage and not riding for fun in winter was always a big no no - you don't get it warmed up correctly (on these more likely localised overheating, whilst the rest is cold) , it tends to build up moisture you don't want inside the crankcases, lots of cold start enrichment fueling contaminating the oil etc. and all you do is wear the thing out

mice and squirrels tend to make homes and eat wiring - note WD40, noise / movement and or some fumes tend to upset them

and then they made it all go horribly wrong by putting ethanol death fuel in the bike and its a new game - with NO answers

ethanol grows bugs that excrete acetic acid, this etches metals which then allows the water that crap adsorbs to create all manner of corrosion in your tank filler neck, wiring, pumps, level sensors and injectors... add in the fact it rapidly separates out components of the fuel and turns to jelly - leaving that shit in there is the worst possible way to trash your bike - its only has a safe shelf-life of 28 days and turns up at most fuel stations with 21 days already used !!!!

the idea they want is lease hire - rent the crap then throw it in a skip - and so now everything

1) is built to self destruct
2) is now built down to a shocking std with a finish that rapidly goes wrong after year 4
3) has gone wrong in the garage trying to keep the salt and rain off

 

[botus]

You do make some strange statements at times.
I'm still going to do the same start up procedure despite your horror story.

its accurate - but if you keep using the thing that helps - as does a gentle warm up phase and using good fuel and lubricants

oil pumps are not usually positive displacement pumps, in their normal operating range they make copious amounts of oil pressure much of which is bled off. so in normal operation (not idle) there's always lots of oil pumped at pressure to critical bearings and surfaces, additionally the crank, rods and pistons are throwing the stuff around to get on little end and on the cyl bores below the piston etc.

at idle engines are not normally left in this condition and whilst usually there's enough lube getting around for the low load on the crank and big end to cope - cams get hammered with extreme heat and load and insufficient lube - the cam lube situation goes up appropriately and the load goes down when we run it at 2k - as does the pressure to get decent piston base lube via the con rods (on engines that have it) - Plus the CATS prefer life, as flow is high enough for them to just reach operating temps at this speed and the ridiculous need for low speed enrichment is also removed

where we turn over by hand most of the oil slips past the pump and thus goes absolutely nowhere (but we get some small effect where the pick up and the pump tend to fill so when it does start it takes a smidge less time to get around), on the starter we have a chance but its slight and nothing like what its meant to have - what has changed is modern lubricants are amazing and help reduce the mess - and of course vehicles now tend to die of other engineered in obsolescence - or the salt and filth rots it when you do use it

 

[TLSgazza]

its accurate - but if you keep using the thing that helps - as does using good fuel and lubricants

I started mine yesterday for the first time since the end of November.
Started first press. No trickle charger used all winter. just a 2 hour boost on the charger just before the end of January, it got that whether it needed it or not.
No horror stories to report. I let it tick over for a few minutes in the garage to warm it up. Then went out for the first ride of the year. About 70 miles.
D
All good
I have always used premium fuel though in all my vehicles.

 

[HxH]

I know what to do, Just ride the old bike and if it breaks, Oh well!, It didn't cost me a lot anyway, wont break me, if it all goes belly up.
It will make a nice wall feature somewhere in my house.

 

[G&T]

This thread has raised a question in my mind. I park up (garage) my bike Nov to Mar. In that time I have never done anything different other than charge up the battery once a month. Given the comment about Ethanol going off would it be better to ensure last fill up before rest up is premium petrol?

 

[Engineer]

I run my bikes up to full temperature on the drive at least once a week if they haven’t been ridden. There will always be a coating of oil on all the moving parts.

 

[Headtester]

This thread has raised a question in my mind. I park up (garage) my bike Nov to Mar. In that time I have never done anything different other than charge up the battery once a month. Given the comment about Ethanol going off would it be better to ensure last fill up before rest up is premium petrol?

I try to make sure the tank is full over the winter and normally use posh fuel anyway, seems better than leaving it half full and with E10 in it

 

[TLSgazza]

I run my bikes up to full temperature on the drive at least once a week if they haven’t been ridden. There will always be a coating of oil on all the moving parts.

Pointless to be quite honest. You're better off just leaving them until you can ride properly. You'll just be causing condensation in the engine and exhaust.

 

[botus]

I try to make sure the tank is full over the winter and normally use posh fuel anyway, seems better than leaving it half full and with E10 in it

that is exactly the method to best help - less room for oxidation (as full of fuel not air) - but if leaving it that long a bottle of fuel stabaliser gunk is still recco way to try and help - and of course on a GSA you'll have 33 ltrs of worn out lawnmower junk to use up come the spring https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387866675473?

in the good old days between 2019 and 2023 most Super Unleaded E5 was really 0% Ethanol death rot - but since mid 2024 Esso can now produce enough Ethanol death fuel to distribute around the entire UK for everybody - and thus they announced with glee they can help destroy your vehicle with random ethanol levels up to 5% in all parts of the UK all year round

the ONLY fuel that still smells and behaves like decent stuff is BP97 -

its is far safer to leave the engine OFF for 4 months than ruin it with multiple short duration death runs - oils have had good cling proprieties for way more than 20 years to make it the better way forward - of course if you've throw it in a river, then it'll go rusty inside - as it will from all the condensation the short starts causes - Oil needs cooking for 20 mins once its reached at 80C to boil off the nasties - which means a min ride of 10 miles

my method is an £8 pump from ebay and I pump the crap out to go in the car - and then top up the bike now and then during winter with new stuff - of course it needs to get round the pump and injectors https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387869179726? and twice during a 4 month lay up I will in 6th gear spin round the engine half a turn to stop crap plated bores not fail like they love too - so its a balance of destroyed cyls or no cams - and with all the salt they put down everyday from early Nov to late Mar they have already won....

give this a go - I expect you'll find walking is now far faster than riding the bike since google placed all the fake roadworks...

 

[MotoRevive]

Those who can, do.

Those who can't , start a Youtube channel pretending they can.


Caveat. There is actually some excellent high quality content on YouTube. But filtering out the 99% of Go-pro halfwit heroes is the challenge.

Superbike surgery is a great one for those who enjoy spannering.


As for turning over the bike by hand to coat parts with oil. Forget that. You will never build up enough oil pressure to make that happen. Just unplug the injectors before you crank it over.

 

[MotoRevive]

Pointless to be quite honest. You're better off just leaving them until you can ride properly. You'll just be causing condensation in the engine and exhaust.

100%.

However, if you get it hot enough for long enough this doesn't hold true. But for most circumstances where people fire it up for five mins then shut it down again, you're bob on !!

 

[er-minio]

Superbike surgery is a great one for those who enjoy spannering.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I always worked under the impression that the oil film stays on engine parts for over a year and more.
My HP2 is not used during winter for quite a few months. I never really bothered that much, never had an issue. As above, I don't start it when it's not in use as I wouldn't be able to ride it around and bring to temperature.

The only time I started it, couple of winters ago, briefly in the garage for a couple of minutes because I wanted to show it to a friend (stupid me), when then I actually started it for the first time for a ride, a month or two later, I had a brief puff from the exhaust, clearly signifying some condensation got in. Probably/hopefully just in the exhaust.