AliExpress

[Spareparts]

In fact it could be argued that the branded item is the "rip-off"

Exactly.

Well of course there are some products that are not copies but I am talking about the ones that are. i.e. copies of Machine Art Moto head covers. Aliexpress is littered with copies of genuine products with a lesser, or unknown, quality. The OP is clearly talking about copies of genuine products.

Plastic molded products like many of the MaM products are commonly made by the same manufacturer. Just because it doesn’t have the cheap MaM sticker or silkscreen on, does not make it a copy.

How do you know they are made in the same factory, on the same tooling - have you (or anyone on here) seen this happening?

Yes. I have visited such factories and businesses in Southern China many years ago. There are different grades of materials available to different B2B buyers, at different prices. Manufacturers supplying B2B (and B2C) strictly maintain different pricing levels for different quality of the same tooled product. The difference in quality available is not an accident - it is intentional and preserves price differentiation. The ‘branded’ product is not always the highest quality product - although it may be. For a static plastic product like a hugger, however, the difference is negligible and can come down to QC of edge finish etc. It is incorrect to assume that MaM are willing to pay the manufacturer the highest price for a AAA-grade supplied product. MaM are a B2B buyer just like any other business ‘re’selling factory products and will want to buy smart.

People need to accept that China is the world’s supplying manufacturer of most goods available, probably the world’s most technologically advanced, and the quality of products available is pretty much anything that a paying buyer may want.

 

[Deleted account 221212001]

I did the same, bought a cheaper one. The paint is flaking and rust all over and it’s only been on the bike a few months.

I had mine on the bike for 18 months and it was still looking as good as new.

 

[Deleted account 221212001]

A good example of a Chinese copy is the BMW GS lightweight summer glove. I bought a pair from China which cost me about £25-£30 approximately, I can’t recall the exact price. My BMW dealer sold the exact gloves for about £80, again I can’t recall the exact price but it wasn’t far off £80.

Now have the Chinese copied an expensive product sold by BMW or have BMW sourced a cheap product from China and then ripped us all off by hiking the price up a ridiculous amount. I took a pair of the Chinese gloves to my local dealership and asked them to point out any obvious, visible, quality differences between the two pairs of gloves, they couldn’t and were amazed.

Go figure that.

 

[rossman999]

As many of you know I am heavily involved in the plastic industry and on a monthly basis support brand owners reshore production to Europe from China and the far east.

The Chinese plants are perfectly capable of producing high quality products but they can also produce utter dross and the difference is down to quality control, the high quality manufacturers will have extensive QC and despite what people think China is no longer a very low labour cost market. I know one manufacturer that has a production plant in Germany and in China, there is 10 times more QC staff in China than Germany which all adds to the cost of production, when coupled with more efficient management in Germany the component price is actually very similar in both countries.

The other problem with far east production is the "back door" in any batch production process you always overshoot what you are contracted to produce in a component this can result in a secondary trade out the back door and harm the brand owners by having non existent after sales service in addition to the potential risk of QC failed products being sold as grade A.

The final problem is copying someone else’s design this is the most risky purchase as you have no idea on what you are buying as a consumer some is really good some is truly shocking.

Do I buy from Aliexpress, yes of course I do and indeed I have this week, however would i purchase a copy mudslinger no i would not as i believe we need to support innovation and every unit sold as a copy increases the price of the genuine item as it still needs to recover the investment!
I would also never buy a safety critical item eg a break or suspension part as there is likely to be zero QC absolutly not as my life is worth more than the few pounds saved!

 

[Mr Bean]

Do I buy from Aliexpress, yes of course I do and indeed I have this week, however would i purchase a copy mudslinger no i would not as i believe we need to support innovation and every unit sold as a copy increases the price of the genuine item as it still needs to recover the investment!
I would also never buy a safety critical item eg a break or suspension part as there is likely to be zero QC absolutly not as my life is worth more than the few pounds saved!

This is my point - the original designer needs to recover it's investment, otherwise who will come up with the new designs, ensuring they're safe to use, because for sure it won't be the knock-off manufacturers.

People buy knock-off huggers, even though the fittings used are responsible for holding the brake caliper and the paralever brace in place.

 

[the woodster]

Soz, my mistake. OE are £474 inc fitting.

I bought a pair a couple of years ago and although they appeared well made, they were poor as fog lights or even extra driving lights for visibility. They simply weren't bright enough. That's half the money you would pay for a decent pair of Denali items.

 

[DJ123]

No matter where you are in the world, if you had a static design made in plastic or a cast metal that you were planning on producing in quantity for sale to the general public consumer, you would be foolish to not approach a supplying production company in China to undertake manufacture. They have the ability to manufacture and produce high quality products at relatively very low cost compared to elsewhere in the world. So it has nothing to do with theft. Aliexpress simply gives consumers direct access to the manufacturer in the first place bypassing the huge markup of branded products (silkscreened 'Touratech' or similar in China!). Lots of people like to bash the Chinese, but fact is they have manufacturing capabilities and knowledge that is technologically far ahead of most firms in the UK, and certainly on par with the best in Germany and beyond. Just look at the latest EV technology - it's a battle between the South Koreans and China, Germany is dependent, and England is.... relatively speaking, still burning coal. And if anyone thinks the British have a higher moral compass, you clearly haven't been watching or reading world politics the past couple of decades... (or arguably even hundreds or 1000's of years if you think Chinese civilisation is behind the British)

The reason they can undercut the West is the Government subsidise the industry/companies, and they also have a disregard for Patents & IP. If we all worked in this manner lots of things could be cheaper.....
None of their raw materials are cheaper (but probably are if using a lower quality), and neither are the machines. But the land potentially is and probably the labour too.

It is prevalent in the Semi-Conductor industry with counterfit/copied goods. Yes they cost a lot less because; they lack the R&D, material quality, build quality, testing, etc etc etc.

 

[DJ123]

A good example of a Chinese copy is the BMW GS lightweight summer glove. I bought a pair from China which cost me about £25-£30 approximately, I can’t recall the exact price. My BMW dealer sold the exact gloves for about £80, again I can’t recall the exact price but it wasn’t far off £80.

Now have the Chinese copied an expensive product sold by BMW or have BMW sourced a cheap product from China and then ripped us all off by hiking the price up a ridiculous amount. I took a pair of the Chinese gloves to my local dealership and asked them to point out any obvious, visible, quality differences between the two pairs of gloves, they couldn’t and were amazed.

Go figure that.

What is the safety rating of the BMW glove vs the Chinese one? Anything being sold as Motorcycle safety equipment in the EU has to pass a test and be graded so the consumer is aware of the protection is provides.

 

[Deleted account 221212001]

What is the safety rating of the BMW glove vs the Chinese one? Anything being sold as Motorcycle safety equipment in the EU has to pass a test and be graded so the consumer is aware of the protection is provides.

Considering some plebs ride in shorts, t-shirt and sandals when the sun comes out I’ll happily take my chance with the cheaper gloves.

 

[DJ123]

Entirely your choice of what safety gear to wear on the Bike.

 

[BobT]

Considering some plebs ride in shorts, t-shirt and sandals when the sun comes out I’ll happily take my chance with the cheaper gloves.

And I would defend the rights of anyone to ride in what they want to within the letter of the law. Who are you to judge others decisions?
The French bike police ride in short sleeved shirts and probably far more competent than you are.

 

[Mr Bean]

What is the safety rating of the BMW glove vs the Chinese one? Anything being sold as Motorcycle safety equipment in the EU has to pass a test and be graded so the consumer is aware of the protection is provides.

Are you assuming a degree of honesty - the covid situation has confirmed many claims from Chinese manufacturers of compliance to EU PPE norms are bogus.

 

[DJ123]

Are you assuming a degree of honesty - the covid situation has confirmed many claims from Chinese manufacturers of compliance to EU PPE norms are bogus.

I wasn't suggesting the Chinese cheap ones were safe. The opposite. I was highlighting the price is irrelevant on safety equipment if they do not play on a like-for-like basis under an official test/certification.

 

[armada]

The issue is not quality.
The issue is imho that you port money to a country which supports modern slavery. Ye all be reluctant to do so.

 

[B11RGER]

I did the same, bought a cheaper one. The paint is flaking and rust all over and it’s only been on the bike a few months.

Some people had the same problem with a genuine BMW GS Motorcycle. Its the luck of the draw...

 

[BobT]

The issue is not quality.
The issue is imho that you port money to a country which supports modern slavery. Ye all be reluctant to do so.

Or perhaps it is he western governments that just tell you that to keep you buying goods from western suppliers.

 

[Mr Bean]

I wasn't suggesting the Chinese cheap ones were safe. The opposite. I was highlighting the price is irrelevant on safety equipment if they do not play on a like-for-like basis under an official test/certification.

Ok, my point was that Chinese 'manufacturers' will often supply fake test data to support the sale - incl TUV and SGS etc.

Quite often you'll have difficulty establishing the actual manufacturer that the certification relates to - hence why we often use UKAS accredited labs for our own testing.

 

[R1200GS_Lincoln]

And by the way. I see that Mudsling support this forum with adverts. I have never seen a Chinese manufacturer do that.

 

[R1200GS_Lincoln]

This is an interesting youtube from Bennets Insurance looking at EvoTech products (sorry the parts are not for BMW!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gux-IVDGN4U

 

[fredaroony]

Ok, my point was that Chinese 'manufacturers' will often supply fake test data to support the sale - incl TUV and SGS etc.

Quite often you'll have difficulty establishing the actual manufacturer that the certification relates to - hence why we often use UKAS accredited labs for our own testing.

Chinese copy factory won't give two sh!ts if a part fails and it causes an accident.