Found an interesting thread on ADV about the paralever bearings on the Gs's and one of the guys has came up with an alternative .. He's got some bushings made of some sort of moly impregnated nylon that you fit instead of the bearings .. some guys have done over 7000miles with no wear or play ..
Alternative paralever bearings
- Thread starter West coast gser
- Start date
7000 miles ain't enough in my book. The oem bearings seem good for 40k miles plus... Check out the motorworks alternative. Not made from plastic. Made of alloy. I fitted some about 5-6k miles ago. No complaints yet, but as I said, way too early (but they're he'll of a lot cheaper and you can add grease)
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Found this, looks like the motorworks website, is this what you mean?
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/r1100gs-paralever.1116748/
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/r1100gs-paralever.1116748/
Yes. They're the motorworks option.
When you look at the whole mechanical arrangement of the single sided swingarm and the paralever mechanism, then imagine being fully loaded two up, I don't think you want one iota of play in that paralever. I'm not completely familiar with nylatron, tho I've used it in the distant past. I can't imagine it offering the same support as metal components? And if there was an iota of play in the assembly with nylatron bushes fitted, my expectation would be that they would add to the play, unlike metal which wouldn't compress by the anything like the same amount. I guess my expectation is it would be a flexible assembly...which is not want you want in that location.
I might be talking rubbish, but personally I'll always be sticking to metal for those components
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When you look at the whole mechanical arrangement of the single sided swingarm and the paralever mechanism, then imagine being fully loaded two up, I don't think you want one iota of play in that paralever. I'm not completely familiar with nylatron, tho I've used it in the distant past. I can't imagine it offering the same support as metal components? And if there was an iota of play in the assembly with nylatron bushes fitted, my expectation would be that they would add to the play, unlike metal which wouldn't compress by the anything like the same amount. I guess my expectation is it would be a flexible assembly...which is not want you want in that location.
I might be talking rubbish, but personally I'll always be sticking to metal for those components
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Massive Lee
Registered user
Bushings are made from Nylotron plastic. The same type BMW already uses on some of their bikes. I have 30,000km on mine and they are still like new.
EDIT. and these are NOT he ones posted in the link above. Look for MouthFullOfFlakes on advrider.
It's been discussed here a few weeks ago.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/414519-1150-gsa-paralever/page2
EDIT. and these are NOT he ones posted in the link above. Look for MouthFullOfFlakes on advrider.
It's been discussed here a few weeks ago.
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/414519-1150-gsa-paralever/page2
i have used the motorworks upgrade kit when i had my rockster ,one tip,when packing with a grease gun ,dont over do it or you can break the back of the cap (i know i did it ).
I beg to differ.
I'm on my third set at 50K, and they are not in good shape, just passable. My first set (factory fitted) were replaced at BMW service at 24k. I replaced those at 36K. I treat them with lots of tender loving care and always torque them up to the 7NM. Always check and re-lube every annual service. But in my opinion they are just not up to the task.
I took the trouble of reading all 1800 plus posts on the adventure website just too understand the Nilatron 66 bushes. I am really impressed, and have ordered some, but 'mouthfulloflake' has none in stock, he is awaiting a new batch to be manufactured.
What sold them to me was that:- A bike with them fitted was unfortunately run over by a truck. The bushes had only a slight distortion. Which makes me think that they will never break, only wear. I can manage wear. I'm sure that if there were OEM bearings fitted then either the bearing or the pin would have broken.
Ian
Just by way of information. When you do torque up your paralever pivot bearings (OEM). If you find the up and down movement of the final drive to be a bit notchy, don't automatically assume it is the bearings.
It happened too me the other week, and it turns out the UJ's on the drive shaft are toast. Didn't expect to be needing a new drive shaft at 50k, but there you are.
Ian
It happened too me the other week, and it turns out the UJ's on the drive shaft are toast. Didn't expect to be needing a new drive shaft at 50k, but there you are.
Ian
If the torsion loads are that great, why did the design allow for the use of an aluminium pivot pin? I would have thought at least Steel for a margin of safety. Clearly the designers considered that the stresses in that area were not that great.
For my part, if an aluminium pin is good enough, then a Nylatron 66 bush will also be strong enough.
Ian
But they're aluminium pins with hardened steel races...which is a significant difference.
My expectation of the plastic (especially nylon 66) is that it would give but appear to be fine on removal later because the wear was mostly compression (which is harder to see) and the self lubricating qualities of all the plastics mentioned would for sure reduce the apparent rotational wear.
Is an interesting conversation. And I agree the oem bearings don't last as long as we would like, but they offer the stiffness plastic can't (IMHO)
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My expectation of the plastic (especially nylon 66) is that it would give but appear to be fine on removal later because the wear was mostly compression (which is harder to see) and the self lubricating qualities of all the plastics mentioned would for sure reduce the apparent rotational wear.
Is an interesting conversation. And I agree the oem bearings don't last as long as we would like, but they offer the stiffness plastic can't (IMHO)
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How much grease do put in ? a couple of pumps of a grease gun ? and what kind of grease ? cheers
The significant difference is that with the OEM setup. If the bearings are not monitored, and seize then the bearing surface becomes the aluminium pin until it fails with catstrophic results. With the Nylatron 66 bushes, the bearing surface is the pin, and because the pin is harder than the Nylatron bush, all the wear is on the bush. That means that if there is wear, it is unlikely to lead to a catastrophic failure.
Those bushes are hard plastic. There is a YouTube video of 'mouthfulloflake' beating hell out of one with a hammer to try and get it to shatter. Clearly his attempts failed.
Ian
http://youtu.be/zgW8rj_pIao
How much grease do put in ? a couple of pumps of a grease gun ? and what kind of grease ? cheers
Less than you think! When i fitted mine i got as much in as i could. Since then (early August) i tried only once to add more grease and to be honest, i'm not sure how much went in. With my grease gun i had about 1/4 of a squeeze of the trigger, same on both sides. My hope is there is plenty in there to combat any water ingress...
Don't get me wrong, I am suitably impressed with what plastics can do and I may well be completely wrong in my skepticism of using it for this application... But for a test, I thing a gentle squeeze with a hydraulic press would be more realistic
. One thought about the bearing/bushes is the ones I've seen in images seem to have a lot of material to take the load. Might it be better if they had a metal surround and less plastic? I'd have to hear the view of an automotive ME on that! The other question I have is why would BMW not start out with plastic? Out of interest, does anyone know if the arrangement on the 1200 fares any better than the 1150?
Massive Lee
Registered user
Nylatron is commonly used for suspension components.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=nyla...ved=0ahUKEwj_5LG87afKAhVCuhoKHYzPBGUQ_AUIBigB
https://www.google.ca/search?q=nyla...ved=0ahUKEwj_5LG87afKAhVCuhoKHYzPBGUQ_AUIBigB
Massive Lee
Registered user
According to the "Plastic" developer and manufacturer
http://www.quadrantplastics.com/na-.../extruded-and-cast-nylons/nylatron-R-nsm.html
Nylatron® NSM
- PV rating 5 times that of Delrin® (15,000 versus 3,000)
- bearings can run dry
- wear factor 20 times better than that of Derlin®
- suspensions can oscillate at a greater frequency
http://www.quadrantplastics.com/na-.../extruded-and-cast-nylons/nylatron-R-nsm.html
Nylatron® NSM
- PV rating 5 times that of Delrin® (15,000 versus 3,000)
- bearings can run dry
- wear factor 20 times better than that of Derlin®
- suspensions can oscillate at a greater frequency
DutchBryn
Registered user
Nylatron is commonly used for suspension components.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=nyla...ved=0ahUKEwj_5LG87afKAhVCuhoKHYzPBGUQ_AUIBigB
I remember the tales of one of my late grandfather's post-war drives around Europe. It involved weekly crawls under his car in order to grease the suspension's multitude of joints and bearings.
This has long been ancient history for car drivers but motorcyclists still endure in their grease-gun rituals. Perhaps the manufactures think we enjoy it, part of the ownership experience and all that.
Massive Lee
Registered user
Metal to metal bushings indeed require constant greasing. Not those Nylatron bushings.
Well, I took a look at the website. Some interesting claims for the Nylatron, even some "bushes for a dumper truck - to replace bronze bushes". Alas, I remain skeptical of its use as a replacement for metal paralever bearings, even though i love the idea! A redesign would be needed to convince me...as I mentioned earlier, there seems to be too much material (plastic) taking too much load,I see the Nylatron as a self lubricating bush, not a structural support.
For its use in suspension assemblies, that's just fine, but suspension doesn't take anything like the forces of the paralever or other structural joints. In fact the suspension depends on those structural joints to be rigid in order to do its job...so suspension is maybe not a good comparison.
Warning. I could still be talking rubbish. But I have the fact bmw put a bearing in there to start with
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