Another WC test ride - Underwhelmed

[Robbo1200ADV]

Nice write up Andres , I like to get the newest GS normally but have held out . Was going to sell my GSA recently but with Global's demise will be using it more !! I will hang out for the Adventure but for now am happy with what my TC does . Just needs some miles on it !!

 

[Flipfly]

Interesting write up from a different perspective

I haven't bothered riding the lc because it isn't what I want from a bike, the last thing I need is to go quicker which it surely will be.

Funnily the agricultural feel of bms older twins also is an atractive quality for me also.

Sounds like the bike hits all the right notes for the intended audience though.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

.................
The build quality will never be the same as the 11**'s due to cost and difference in paint. It's the same for everyone I think. In the bikes defence, it's been used through the hardest winter for a while with more salt on the roads than ever before.

Yes, I do agree with that completely - however my bike has also been used through several of the hardest winters in a while and whilest not corrosion free some parts such as the brake hose ends and caliper bolts are actually in better nick than the WC which has had only one month of salty roads.
You know that almost painted silver coating on the hexhead bolts, well, any bolt that is not s/s on the WC doesn't seem to have it and it's those bolts that were rusting. Anyway, I have no issue with the quality of the bike, or mine for that matter, and accept that this will happen - I pointed it out more because peeps had said that the quality was better on the WC than on the hexhead.

Andres

 

[Coolcarbon]

Nice write-up Andres, thanks...

What do you reckon...17" front wheel sort it....

 

[Rasher]

If I wanted a faster ,smoother ,better handling bike there are loads out there that would do the sporty thing better but I dont wish to go back there again.

A common sentiment I think, I got my GS because I had lost the will to wrestle with 200BHP and take the associated (mainly legal) risks.

The GS was a great all rounder with useable performance that rarely tempted anything worth more than three points.

I had to decide between the last of the Air Cooled GS (Twin Cam - which I loved) and the Yamaha / Triumph / Guzzi when buying a new bike last year, and do not regret not waiting for the new BMW / KTM judging by the reviews of real punters appearing here - although with a half decent lotto win I am not sure if it would be a new MTS or KTM for those occasional adrenaline blasts.

Seems the manufacturers believe we all want 125+ BHP, and suspension / chassis geometery setup for track handling, which seems odd as the old model sold awfully well to people used to 50%+ more power.

I have ridden my Yamaha in some pretty shite weather and at 18 months old it has not got a spot of rust or furry fastener so the new BMW could do better, but it seems every year every manufacturer lowers the standards just a little bit more.

I would guess they chose to further lower standards as opposed to increasing prices, the one thing that surprised me the most was you now get a lot more spec for your money, and something obviously had to give, and it seems to be fixings and fixtures.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Seems the manufacturers believe we all want 125+ BHP, and suspension / chassis geometery setup for track handling, which seems odd as the old model sold awfully well to people used to 50%+ more power.

I would guess they chose to further lower standards as opposed to increasing prices, the one thing that surprised me the most was you now get a lot more spec for your money, and something obviously had to give, and it seems to be fixings and fixtures.

I think the manufacturers are being driven by the press and their constant push for power. Lets face it, most people probably don't use 50% of the power of a standard GS/S10 etc so increasing it is non sensical.

Bang on the money reference pricing. People think they are pricey now but you have to remember the 1100 was the thick end of 10k when it came out in 94

 

[original_concept]

ISTR one of BMW Motorrad's chaps bemoaning the quality of the hex/tc brake finishes a year or so ago, seems nothing has changed.

Interesting to see the underseat shot, looks like a R1100xx. Where's the battery gone? Up the front in a F800 style?

 

[Flipfly]

Being in the fastener industry I can say that the motor industry are shit hot on spec. There has been a big change in spec with the removal of chromium 6 from the effluent process (watch Erin Brockavich or whatever it's called).
There are plenty of alternatives now, but none seem to withstand road salt quite the same.
Yamaha being closer to the source may have found a better solution The old silver coating on the head bolts is like a ruspert type finish which is zinc flake in an organic "glue" this organic content is what helps.
The fastener suppliers are different to the brake line connections, so it suggests the spec is poor, not just a cheap supplier.
It is the devils own job to deal with the shit that fasteners in this application are thrown, so don't be too harsh, I wouldn't want the job of speccing them

 

[Little-Brit]

Being in the fastener industry I can say that the motor industry are shit hot on spec. There has been a big change in spec with the removal of chromium 6 from the effluent process (watch Erin Brockavich or whatever it's called).
There are plenty of alternatives now, but none seem to withstand road salt quite the same.
Yamaha being closer to the source may have found a better solution The old silver coating on the head bolts is like a ruspert type finish which is zinc flake in an organic "glue" this organic content is what helps.
The fastener suppliers are different to the brake line connections, so it suggests the spec is poor, not just a cheap supplier.
It is the devils own job to deal with the shit that fasteners in this application are thrown, so don't be too harsh, I wouldn't want the job of speccing them

I second that.

And working in engineering for over 40 years I can assure you that stainless steels are not the solution to all ills either; they have some serious problems on the vibration induced cracking and strength fronts that I would not over look lightly on stressed components such as suspension and brake components.

 

[DING-DONG]

I also demo'd piddy's bike my demo was the first of the day in the morn and the bike had not been cleaned previous and that was about 3-4 was ago and i rode it in the rain and it was absolutely pitched when I took it back, tbh they probably got rid of the old boy len who used to clean the bikes after they had a shakedown of staff.

To be fair anyone who spends that kind of money will obviously look after it more than a demo bike .

 

[Bendy toy]

Things like manifold nuts can be replaced with stainless or even brass dome nuts for next to no cost. I used stanless bolts on my Yamaha 900 wherever I could and never had any problems**, but I never used stainless nuts on stainless bolts. Most of them did about 40K miles and at least 4 winters. It was properly used not cosseted and cuddled after every ride.

Another option is to buy a bright zinc kit for £100 and replate everything. Some will say that's a bit naff on a new premium bike but even at 2x the price everything has a cost. The manufacturer has to compete.

** Not quite true I replaced the quick-rust footrest pins with stainless socket head bolts. After a year or two they got a bit stiff. Then when I wanted to sort them out, the bolts would not move. The alloy had corroded and jammed everything up.

 

[Flipfly]

Things like manifold nuts can be replaced with stainless or even brass dome nuts for next to no cost. I used stanless bolts on my Yamaha 900 wherever I could and never had any problems**, but I never used stainless nuts on stainless bolts. Most of them did about 40K miles and at least 4 winters. It was properly used not cosseted and cuddled after every ride.

Another option is to buy a bright zinc kit for £100 and replate everything. Some will say that's a bit naff on a new premium bike but even at 2x the price everything has a cost. The manufacturer has to compete.

** Not quite true I replaced the quick-rust footrest pins with stainless socket head bolts. After a year or two they got a bit stiff. Then when I wanted to sort them out, the bolts would not move. The alloy had corroded and jammed everything up.

Zinc coated bolts and nuts are commercial plating, they will have much lower corrossion resistance that the oem stuff bm use!
As for stainless, it varies massively in price so bm would struggle to keep tabs on costs. Also, stainless has it's issues at production levels. I have stainless steel on many of my bikes fasteners, however, you have to be wary of where and what torque you use. This is fine when doing it at home, but not sowhen youare apremium bike manufacturer.

 

[patzx12]

I would only use s\s on cosmetic fasteners, bodywork and accessories i wouldn't use it on stressed items.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Nice write-up Andres, thanks...

What do you reckon...17" front wheel sort it....

It'd be great fun with 17" wheels

Joking aside, maybe the 19" wheel combined with the new geometry explains the handling issues; lighter steering making the big wheels reluctance to turn in more noticeable?

Maybe I'm talking bollox?

Andres

 

[bod]

Top report!

And yet more confirmation that my Twin Cam is a great hybrid of a GS.
I do like the look of the new bike, but the water cooling, wet clutch, internal gear box & "modes" can only morph it into everything that comes out of Nippon.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I would only use s\s on cosmetic fasteners, bodywork and accessories i wouldn't use it on stressed items.

Spot on there. I put stainless everywhere on mine but have reverted back to OEM bolts on the stressed items. Too many people said it was asking for trouble especially given the hammering my bike gets......

 

[Yellow Peril]

I think the manufacturers are being driven by the press .

nail on head, look at the change of indicator gear, seasoned GS riders still prefer the original set up not the down spec jap version.

 

[Davy F]

nail on head, look at the change of indicator gear, seasoned GS riders still prefer the original set up not the down spec jap version.

If BMW can't copy a perfectly good (Japanese) switch, which the vast majority of riders in the world prefer, it's hardly the Japs or the press's fault, is it ? I had my GS for 4 1/2 years and always hated the stupid three switch system. So to say you have to be a seasoned GS rider is just as stupid as the three switches.

 

[alp]

nail on head, look at the change of indicator gear, seasoned GS riders still prefer the original set up not the down spec jap version.

Have to disagree on this one. I had a K 1200R with the old style BMW indicator switch arrangement and hated it as being dangerous to cancel with the thumb on your throttle hand. The K reacted violently if the throttle was tweaked a little during cancelling in traffic. I changed over the wiring of the horn and cancel paddles to get around this, and this was a common modn. I could have lived with this modified arrangement on the new GS but am happy with the new switch system anyhow and it matches the system on my other bikes.
I'm not being critical but am trying to understand why the old system has so many enthusiasts.
One possibility is that the previous GSs were quite sedate in throttle response in comparison to the K and that now the new GS engine is more responsive (especially in Dynamic mode) the new indicator switch gear suits the engine response better?

 

[Jumblemo]

If BMW can't copy a perfectly good (Japanese) switch, which the vast majority of riders in the world prefer, it's hardly the Japs or the press's fault, is it ? I had my GS for 4 1/2 years and always hated the stupid three switch system. So to say you have to be a seasoned GS rider is just as stupid as the three switches.

Perhaps the truth is that the two indicator switch systems are sufficiently different, though equally usable, for identical function, that the change from one system to the other requires a conscious effort and is therefore quite irritating despite being of no real import. I'd argue that once a rider adapts I doubt it remains a conscious part of the riding experience impacting satisfaction.

Assuming there is no difference in reliability it is of little more importance than whether the crud catcher has a GS logo on it.

Hardly a tangible factor in weighing up the merits of the bike.