Anyone using Brisk spark plugs?

[Godzilla]

Whats wrong with the perfectly good standard ngk plugs installed as standard?
Answer.......= Nothing. And thats my answer/advice.
DONT WASTE your dosh.
And as far as " i can feel the difference through the seat of me pants".
What a load of Bxllxcks.

I have to agree with this. Its all in your mind.

 

[pistole]

i would venture to say that they don't provide a "better" spark (if there is such a thing).

what they do provide would be a more consistent output over a given service life (which may be much longer that normal electrode sparkplugs).

 

[Nick V]

Guys
I asked for opinions not handbags at Dawn! As a practicing Engineer, I Know a bigger spark is better under compression than a weaker one for fully igniting the air / fuel mix. I don't know if the differing designs (Iridium electrode / Brisk etc) actually give a better / cleaner spark under compression or not. I was hoping for constructive comments but looks like there are characters on here who just want to take the piss all the time rather than help & assist?

Reminds me of Robert McNamara issuing a directive to the US Air Force and Navy to come up with a common air-superiority fighter, getting the F-111 which couldn't fulfill the needs of either service, and realising he had had an outstanding common-service fighter in the F-4 Phantom II all along.

Seriously, though: the ideal shape to get maximum energy from a high-voltage discharge electrode is a cone which tapers to an infinite point. The reason this isn't done is because it subjects all known metallic materials to enough heat to erode the discharge electrode very quickly.

In a 'normal' plug, the equivalent is to give the cylindrical centre electrode the sharpest corners possible. This allows the electrode to wear more gradually (and evenly), giving longer service life. (This is also why, when checking used plugs, you pay more attention to electrode edge erosion than the electrode air gap.)

In a platinum or iridium plug, the centre electrode can be given a much smaller diameter which more closely approaches the theoretical ideal of a sharp point (0.6mm for NGK, 0.4mm for Denso). This is possible because the thin coating of rare earth metal on the electrode allows much faster dissipation of heat, greatly hampering the electrode's propensity to burn and erode.

Someone quoted the example of semi-surface discharge plugs for racing. The operating principle is exactly the same as a 'normal' plug (see above), with one crucial difference: the plug's threaded portion fulfills the function of the earth electrode. Why? Because these plugs are typically used in engines with compression ratios high enough that they can't tolerate projections of metal into the combustion chamber - the piston crown would contact any projecting earth electrode. That's it - the only reason. They are NOT some 'magic bullet' that give an extra 20 BHP and 10 MPG.

If anyone is interested in learning more, please take a look here: http://www.ukgser.com/technical/nic...lug Listing (All BMW models, '99 on) V1.2.pdf

 

[MrMcNamara]

At last a creditable answer backed up with a little science! thanks Chris (not Robert) McNamara

 

[Nick V]

Thanks Chris! It was my pleasure.
I spent time at Toyota as a research technician. We were lucky enough to get detailed presentations from the local NGK head office a few times.

The theory behind what makes a good (or bad) spark plug is freely available to anyone who cares to look for it - in 2015, there really is no excuse for people inventing their own facts on the spot, preaching them as gospel and, when challenged to defend them, falling back on the 'Well it's my opinion' defence.

Unless I can use hard facts to correct what I know is a misconception, I tend to stay out of debates on the 'Best' spark plugs, engine oil and tyres. When people realise that they don't really know what they're talking about, the arguments tend to become circular, and eventually devolve into an us-vs.-them defence of chosen brands/name-calling.

 

[Wapping]

Phew, that's cleared that up.

My mum will be pleased.

 

[Myke Rocks]

Careful, there!

Thanks Chris! It was my pleasure.
I spent time at Toyota as a research technician. We were lucky enough to get detailed presentations from the local NGK head office a few times.

The theory behind what makes a good (or bad) spark plug is freely available to anyone who cares to look for it - in 2015, there really is no excuse for people inventing their own facts on the spot, preaching them as gospel and, when challenged to defend them, falling back on the 'Well it's my opinion' defence.

Unless I can use hard facts to correct what I know is a misconception, I tend to stay out of debates on the 'Best' spark plugs, engine oil and tyres. When people realise that they don't really know what they're talking about, the arguments tend to become circular, and eventually devolve into an us-vs.-them defence of chosen brands/name-calling.

You could start a serious argument on this site from those who know everything about oil! Some of them have even done 50,000 miles using their favourite brand, and know how superior it is to everything else out there.
Myke

 

[Nick V]

You could start a serious argument on this site from those who know everything about oil! Some of them have even done 50,000 miles using their favourite brand, and know how superior it is to everything else out there.
Myke

Sticking dogmatically to one brand could land a person in hot water (oil?)
No one fries their eggs in Astroglide. But plenty are still using butter in their amorous relations with the Missus.

 

[JJH]

Thanks Chris! It was my pleasure.
I spent time at Toyota as a research technician. We were lucky enough to get detailed presentations from the local NGK head office a few times.

The theory behind what makes a good (or bad) spark plug is freely available to anyone who cares to look for it - in 2015, there really is no excuse for people inventing their own facts on the spot, preaching them as gospel and, when challenged to defend them, falling back on the 'Well it's my opinion' defence.

Unless I can use hard facts to correct what I know is a misconception, I tend to stay out of debates on the 'Best' spark plugs, engine oil and tyres. When people realise that they don't really know what they're talking about, the arguments tend to become circular, and eventually devolve into an us-vs.-them defence of chosen brands/name-calling.

Thanks for that. Just a question or 2. I thought Toyota owned Nippon Denso? I sold them by the thousand 25 years ago for 8 valve and 12 valve Corollas and Starlets to motor factors. We were always told that Toyota was the owner. This was to counter the NGK hot U groove that was out at the time. The only plug that made any difference to a engine that I can remember was the Lodge plug that went into the flat 4 engine. No other plug would do. That's in the early 80s. JJH

 

[Nick V]

Thanks for that. Just a question or 2. I thought Toyota owned Nippon Denso?

Quite right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denso

I sold them by the thousand 25 years ago for 8 valve and 12 valve Corollas and Starlets to motor factors.

The plugs they make are excellent, but have never been available on an aftermarket basis in South Africa.

The only plug that made any difference to a engine that I can remember was the Lodge plug that went into the flat 4 engine. No other plug would do. That's in the early 80s. JJH

I did my motor trade apprenticeship on Isuzu and Opel (Vauxhall to you). I remember that the C16NZ engine (a low-spec 1 600cm3 four with single-point throttle-body injection) ran badly if we fitted it with anything other than Champion N9YCC plugs. All other Opels were the other way around - they ran best on NGK BP6ES (earlier versions) or BCPR6ES / BCPR6EY-II (later versions with aluminium shields surrounding the plug wells), but we noticed a slight fall-off in starting and low-speed running on the Champions.
We were careful to keep a small stock of the Champions, because we never used them in any other car. But for C16NZ-powered Astra/Kadett, they were magic.

 

[JJH]

Quite right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denso



The plugs they make are excellent, but have never been available on an aftermarket basis in South Africa.



I did my motor trade apprenticeship on Isuzu and Opel (Vauxhall to you). I remember that the C16NZ engine (a low-spec 1 600cm3 four with single-point throttle-body injection) ran badly if we fitted it with anything other than Champion N9YCC plugs. All other Opels were the other way around - they ran best on NGK BP6ES (earlier versions) or BCPR6ES / BCPR6EY-II (later versions with aluminium shields surrounding the plug wells), but we noticed a slight fall-off in starting and low-speed running on the Champions.
We were careful to keep a small stock of the Champions, because we never used them in any other car. But for C16NZ-powered Astra/Kadett, they were magic.

Sorry I meant the alfasud if you remember them? JJH

 

[Nick V]

Sorry I meant the alfasud if you remember them? JJH

Oh yes! A fantastic little car. I tried to buy one back in the late nineties, but the owner sold it out from under me - I wasn't happy.
They're very rare over here now - I see about one or two a year on the roads.

I was trying to illustrate the only example I've ever known where different spark plugs alone made a difference to a vehicle's running.
I'm by no means sure why that should even be. Maybe an 'economically specified' ignition coil, placement of the earth electrode somehow interfering with flame-front propagation in the combustion chamber, or the conductive steel alloys the plug is made of not being conductive enough above certain temperatures?

I do know that not all sparks are created equal. A very great deal happens between the rotor passing the ignition pick-up (or the points gap opening) and the spark going to earth.

 

[JJH]

Oh yes! A fantastic little car. I tried to buy one back in the late nineties, but the owner sold it out from under me - I wasn't happy.
They're very rare over here now - I see about one or two a year on the roads.

I was trying to illustrate the only example I've ever known where different spark plugs alone made a difference to a vehicle's running.
I'm by no means sure why that should even be. Maybe an 'economically specified' ignition coil, placement of the earth electrode somehow interfering with flame-front propagation in the combustion chamber, or the conductive steel alloys the plug is made of not being conductive enough above certain temperatures?

I do know that not all sparks are created equal. A very great deal happens between the rotor passing the ignition pick-up (or the points gap opening) and the spark going to earth.

The Alfa was sabost to be my example but I left it out!!!!! JJH

 

[mrtee43]

I must have had about 6 Alfasuds, all used and what great handling cars they were, but bloody hell, they were the biggest rot boxes ever made.

Flat four engine, inboard front disc brakes, Watts linkage rear suspension..... such memories !

 

[Nick V]

I must have had about 6 Alfasuds, all used and what great handling cars they were, but bloody hell, they were the biggest rot boxes ever made.

Flat four engine, inboard front disc brakes, Watts linkage rear suspension..... such memories !

I'm told that a big reason why Alfasuds, Guila Juniors and GTV6 3.0s have become so rare over here is that European and British buyers scoop them up here and ship them over.

 

[JJH]

I must have had about 6 Alfasuds, all used and what great handling cars they were, but bloody hell, they were the biggest rot boxes ever made.

Flat four engine, inboard front disc brakes, Watts linkage rear suspension..... such memories !

Tiny pedals fan switch whare indicator should be. JJH

 

[iandavid]

Spoke to a mate down the pub tonight who new a mate, who's mate had fitted the plugs. He said that his seat of the pants dyno reconned an extra 50% power after fitting the plugs. Mind you it was only firing on one cylinder before!