Battery dead, what's it going to cost me?

[bikemad]

I wouldn't leave a charger plugged in all the time not sure if it does batt any good ? so I put mine on once a week or so when in garage it's all ok trickles it for a while then all green saying fully charged

Plus I run engine once every week or two 5 mins to keep fuel flowing though.

 

[Delboy777]

I wouldnt run the bike for short periods all that does is cause condensation inside the motor that doesnt get evaporated by the engine if its not given a proper run up to full temp for a good while. Each time you run it it creates more vapour that doesnt get evaporated. Best just leave it alone and not run it for short periods. All off course only my opinion. ;-)

 

[Pukmeister]

I wish you'd given me a call or an email Danny, I have an old spare fully charged GSA battery sat in my garage. I'm keeping just it in case my bike won't start for the morning commute but it would have done until you had time to buy a replacement.

Likewise, if you need anything doing to the bike you know where I am.

Not trying to do Bahnstormers out of a job BTW but hate to see you miss a days riding unnecessarily, time is a precious commodity.

 

[sagalout]

Just fitted an Odyssey battery to mine today as the old one was getting weak after 3 years, especially on hot starts. Went in ok but a very tight fit - will be a bugger if I ever have to get it out again!

 

[adventuredon]

bought a motobatt off fleabay as my OEM was apparently failing after 3 years and 35k. Motobatt failed after 2 days, probably a damaged e bay second.... Long story short, So when I went to Hein Gericke when they were, as I had an order for a visor for me but could not fulfill the order due to financial reasons, they gave me a battery in lieu. Fitted in place of the motobatt (and my OEM which seemed on its way out)..All good. Bike stands outside 24/7 and yet to not start on the replacement. So plus 1 for the standard HG battery. After a year, I charged up my BMW oem battery, took it to my truck and connected it a generator. Started first time. Plus 1 for OEm and even the standard HG battery. I guess as long as its ridden regularly. Oh, and simple as to change

 

[diplomaticdanny]

I wish you'd given me a call or an email Danny, I have an old spare fully charged GSA battery sat in my garage. I'm keeping just it in case my bike won't start for the morning commute but it would have done until you had time to buy a replacement.

Likewise, if you need anything doing to the bike you know where I am.

Not trying to do Bahnstormers out of a job BTW but hate to see you miss a days riding unnecessarily, time is a precious commodity.

Thanks Adam, you know better than most my technical ability, Bahnstormers are also replacing the bit I broke outside your house!

 

[bikemad]

I wouldnt run the bike for short periods all that does is cause condensation inside the motor that doesnt get evaporated by the engine if its not given a proper run up to full temp for a good while. Each time you run it it creates more vapour that doesnt get evaporated. Best just leave it alone and not run it for short periods. All off course only my opinion. ;-)

Iv had jap & triumph triples do that oil used to be milky though sight glass,a motorway blast cleared them but never seen it on GS,as the gearbox is separate less space inside so once barrels are hot engine is warm throughout I can't see it been a problem ?

 

[Martyn H]

I wouldn't leave a charger plugged in all the time not sure if it does batt any good ? so I put mine on once a week or so when in garage it's all ok trickles it for a while then all green saying fully charged
Plus I run engine once every week or two 5 mins to keep fuel flowing though.

A sarcastic, but very talented & competent mechanic I know, if asked the question "Should I start the bike up & run in in the garage for a while ?" had a stock reply.
Adopting a dead pan expression he'd say "Run a jug of water. Take the plugs out & tip some water in each bore, then replace the plugs. Pour the rest of the water into the silencer. There you go. Same result & you haven't used your petrol, or run the risk of exhaust gas poisoning"

 

[Greg Masters]

I wouldn't leave a charger plugged in all the time not sure if it does batt any good ? so I put mine on once a week or so when in garage it's all ok trickles it for a while then all green saying fully charged

Plus I run engine once every week or two 5 mins to keep fuel flowing though.

A regular battery charger - no. But a smart-charger like an Optimate is designed to be left hooked up permanently - in fact they shouldn't be disconnected until you're ready to run the bike as you will reset the charging algorithm.

 

[Delboy777]

Iv had jap & triumph triples do that oil used to be milky though sight glass,a motorway blast cleared them but never seen it on GS,as the gearbox is separate less space inside so once barrels are hot engine is warm throughout I can't see it been a problem ?

All I'm saying is I don't want to add ANY water to my oil if I can avoid it. Milky oil is nowhere near as lubricating as oil without water in it. Yes it will clear once the oil and engine get hot enough because of evaporation, but what damage is it doing meantime ?

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I wouldnt run the bike for short periods all that does is cause condensation inside the motor that doesnt get evaporated by the engine if its not given a proper run up to full temp for a good while. Each time you run it it creates more vapour that doesnt get evaporated. Best just leave it alone and not run it for short periods. All off course only my opinion. ;-)

Park mine up in Nov & leave until March each year

No starting ~ just left

Optimate plugged in for 24-36 hours only, once a month

That is it

Bike is 10 years old now & only replaced the oem BMW battery last year, after 9 years sterling service

What's 'charging algorithm' you speak of, Greg?

Sounds like a ruse to me

 

[Greg Masters]

What's 'charging algorithm' you speak of, Greg?

Sounds like a ruse to me

This is from the Optimate III but the same principle applies on later models.

By turning off or disconnecting, you start again with the charging spike and bulk charge at the beginning of the algorithm. If the battery doesn't need it, then you'll be overcharging. The float cycle should take care of everything - just connect and leave connected.

 

[(RIP) Miff]

Plus I run engine once every week or two 5 mins to keep fuel flowing though.

Little book of 101 ways to bugger an engine up. I believe that's No 8.

 

[bikemad]

It's fecked then

 

[Bendy toy]

I wouldn't leave a charger plugged in all the time not sure if it does batt any good ? so I put mine on once a week or so when in garage it's all ok trickles it for a while then all green saying fully charged

The normal lead sulphate in battery cells is soluble. Normal in-use charging and discharging moves sulphate ions between the electrolyte liquid and solid plates.
Lead acids will also self discharge but this sulphate is non soluble. Gradually it builds up and clogs the battery to death.

Charging every month is better than nothing but for 30 days (out of 31), the self discharge is growing hard sulphate.

Optimate avoids overcharging by allowing the battery to drop its voltage a little then topping it up again. The voltage drop isn't enough to allow hard sulphate to develop.

Plus I run engine once every week or two 5 mins to keep fuel flowing though.

Every gallon of petrol burns to a gallon of water plus CO2. Run an engine for five minutes and the water generated will condense into the exhaust system along with a fair amount of acidic products of combustion. The remaining water will have blown past the piston rings and settled into the engine oils. Shut off After 5 or 10 minutes and the engine it still too cold to have evaporated that water.

We all know that most engine wear happens on a cold starts - no oil until the pump is turning so bearings run dry for a few turns. Simply starting it for a few minutes each week = 100% wear with 0% use.

Tickover speed is toxic especially to cold engines. The moving parts are not spinning fast enough to smooth out the competing loads causing excessive wear. Many bikes run fast on cold start tickover.

Really big engines have jacking oil pumps to feed the bearings for starting.

Don't leave the bike on tickover while getting dressed. Start the engine and ride away.
Avoid short runs where it never gets properly warmed up.
Don't leave it ticking over for long periods even when warm.

 

[Pukmeister]

You missed the "don't thrash the tits off it until warmed up" bit.

A neighbour always starts his car from cold on full throttle. He's a dozy old twat, he wrecks cars. Probably puts 2000 miles of engine wear on every start.

 

[Neil A]

Tickover speed is toxic especially to cold engines. The moving parts are not spinning fast enough to smooth out the competing loads causing excessive wear. Many bikes run fast on cold start tickover.

I've seen the advice to start and ride away immediately several timeson this site, but I hadn't seen an explanation as to why until now. Thanks!

I don't spend loads of time on the site, so I may have missed several threads with the explanation, by the way

 

[Greg Masters]

The moving parts are not spinning fast enough to smooth out the competing loads causing excessive wear. Many bikes run fast on cold start tickover.

That's about the only point in your post that I don't agree with.

Internal combustion engines are designed to run at a temperature (plus or minus a bit). Different engine parts warm up at different rates and depending on the material used may also have different expansion rates. It's all designed to fit well at normal operating temperature - which almost certainly means not so well at any other temperature.

So you want to get the engine warmed as quickly as possible whilst, at the same time, keeping the stresses to a minimum. That usually means getting the engince to do some light work (ie riding/driving slowly) and not revving the bollocks off it until it's thoroughly warmed up.

Another issue is oil viscosity. It's less of an issue with road oils, but I have personally witnessed an oil pump drive being sheared off by revving the bollocks off a stone cold engine. It's not a clever thing to do.

 

[Bendy toy]

Listen to Harley with the tickover set too low and you'll get what I mean. Crank & pistons may not care too much but valve drive system gets a bigger battering at low revs.
.

 

[MattW]

Which is why I always pull the injector plugs before a start after a long layoff and crank the engine until the oil pressure light goes out. Then reconnect the injectors, start it and ride off gently without excessive revs until it's warmed up.