Bike ('95 1100) won't start.

[Dragon Master]

Hi guys, time to try the collective wisdom...

Just put my bike back together after repairing gearbox. It hasn't run since Jan/Feb; it fired up OK then after I'd charged the battery, but the battery died in the mean time. Fitted new Odyssey. It now turns over OK, plenty of power from battery, the ABS doesn't register a fault. Can't check the plugs as I can't get them out; I've got a 'BMW' plug key, but one end won't fit down the tunnel, the other is too small. What size hex are the plugs?

All fuses are OK. I have put a new (non cat) standard exhaust on, which doesn't have a lambda probe. Tried it with original coding plug (Pink), new coding plug (Beige) and no plug. Tried plugging the lambda probe back in, still nothing.

But... it seemed like lack of fuel, so I checked fuel lines. Pump is priming, including when I turn it over by hand (not easy with plugs in). It's getting through to the injectors OK, but the injectors aren't firing. I've had them out and turned it over, nothing happening, whereas I believe they should squirt 'a couple of feet' to quote one post I've read. Also, I've had a metre across the terminals in both injector plugs, and nothing registering when I turn it over. (I would have expected it to 'pulse', that right?)

One other thing, not sure it would be related though; I've got a Datatool Veto alarm. I had fun getting this to disarm at first, but after leaving it a couple of hours it worked fine; I think the internal battery had discharged. Does the alarm operate on the fuel system at all?

I've searched all I can find on here, but found nothing useful yet; any ideas anyone?

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Den]

When I removed my 'spyball' alarm from my 1100 (years ago) the injectors were part of the systems isolated by the alarm system.

Try bash you plug socket down the hole. If its the one which comes with the tool kit it should fit. It might be getting restricted by the grommet thing in the rocker cover.

I dont think the lamda or the coding plugs should stop it starting.

 

[Steptoe]

Try bash you plug socket down the hole. .

Thats the way to do it -

Problem is usually caused by corrosion on the spark plug body.

First thing is get rid of the alarm. Fecking things.

I've got an 1100GS anniversary model here, stolen recovered, just damaged locks and the alarm ripped out, 15K miles on the clock. And it's been written off.

Because the alarm has shorted and melted the main wiring loom together.
So the item thats meant to protect the bike has caused a perfectly good 15k mile bike to be scrapped.

 

[Dragon Master]

Cheers for quick replies, fellas. Right, probably questions for Steptoe... Was I right to expect 'pulsing' with the meter across the injector terminals when I turn it over? And, can you tell me how to remove/isolate the alarm? All the wiring is black so shrouded in mystery, and information on it is less plentiful than Rocking Horse manure...

Only other thing not right is the neutral light is on all the time (in gear); I had a choice of two switches, looks like I put the wrong one on, the other one works.

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Colban]

Are you sure you've got the fuel lines on the right way round?.
The system sounds like its priming but the fuel is being pumped against the wrong side of the valve.

 

[Dragon Master]

Hi Colban,

I had thought of that; I'm pretty certain I have because I left the clamps on opposite parts of the lines when I disconnected. I think. I seem to recall finding a clamp on the floor during the last couple of weeks. Hmm, I'll go swap them over....

Cheers,

Dave.

Edit...Nup, not that; totally different noise from fuel pump.

 

[Steptoe]

Was I right to expect 'pulsing' with the meter across the injector terminals when I turn it over?

Yes.

And, can you tell me how to remove/isolate the alarm? All the wiring is black so shrouded in mystery,

Pretty straightforward. Each alarm wire will break into a circuit. Follow a black alarm wire to the wire it joins, note the colour, then find the other end of the same colour where another black alarm wire joins .
Cut the black alarms wire out, and rejoin the two ends of the same colour.
Then repeat for all the other black alarm wires. One will be a live feed and they'll also be one or two earths.

 

[Dragon Master]

Thanks, Neil. had a word with a former BM dealer on Saturday (Colwyn Bay M/C's), who used to fit Datatool alarms to them. He doesn't think it likely the injectors are isolated by the alarm, apparently though possible it's a bit fiddly to set that up, and a bit pointless anyway. Also, he reckoned that the 'pulse ' at the injector plug wouldn't be of high enough voltage and/or current for my 'ordinary' multimeter to register.

So. The bike has been stood since Jan/Feb. I've heard tales of carbs getting 'bunged up' with 'varnish' after standing (indeed those on my old CX managed to do it while out on a run one day! ). So having tried to 'force' fuel through them when turning it over on Saturday, I've left it alone, thinking that in the meantime the new fuel might have had chance to dissolve any blockage. I'll nip out and give it a try when I've had another brew. Not entirely convinced, but worth a try. I'm also tempted to try a drop or two of 'Redex' in each injector, though I'm not convinced about the safety of using this either; I used it regularly in the fuel when I first got the bike, and needed new injectors after a couple of years. Hmm. Got a feeling I'll be back looking for more ideas. The guy at Colwyn bay did mentions Hall sensors; hope I don't have to go down that route.

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Dragon Master]

Still suspect electrical problem; I can't see both injectors gumming up so much that there isn't even a trickle from one of them. So... used a mate's meter, very sensitive, he uses it on computer circuits. I've got juice to the TPS, but bugger all at either injector plug. Check wiring next, though I don't recall unplugging anything that might have been involved. Might have something trapped though.

Aren't these things well designed from a dealer's point of view? Unless I'm missing something, I've got to dismantle half the bloody bike just to remove the airbox to check the wiring underneath/around it. Lucky I put the wrong neutral switch on, so it would need dismantling again anyway...

Question: According to the wiring diagram, the injectors are connected to the 'timing valve'. Makes sense, but just what/where is this 'timing valve'? Is it the thing at the back of the gearbox casing that the fuel lines connect to ?

OK, that's two questions..sorry.

Dave.

 

[Dragon Master]

OK, swapped the neutral switch back yesterday, I think it's working OK; the meter says it is, not had chance to try it with ignition yet, it was too bloody dark by the time I'd finished last night! Also discounted the alarm, so it's back to the injectors. They have continuity where they should have, and don't have it anywhere they shouldn't. So...scrounged an old spark plug last night, time to see if there's a spark today. Still can't get mine out; it's the rocker cover gasket in the tunnel, swollen out and it's stopping the plug socket reaching the plug. Yes, I know... just take the covers off. Might as well, I can do the valve clearances and the end float while I'm in there. Must print out Steptoe's instructions...

Think I'll put the Remus back on as well, can't see it being anything to do with the lambda, but that's the only thing that's changed.

 

[Dragon Master]

Right, I got sparks. I got fuel to the injectors. If I push (gently) the needle in on the injector nozzle, they squirt, well; even with ignition off, so I'd say plenty of pressure. But they won't fire electrically. Anyone know what sort of voltage they work on, is it 12? I'm tempted to try connecting them direct to see if they fire, but don't want to bugger them if they are OK...

Meanwhile, sod it, time for the pub! and maybe a pint or three of the black stuff...

Dave.