BMW to drop servos

[JayGee]

At the dealer's yesterday I was told the newer bikes are now coming without servos, even if they have ABS and this will soon be the case with the GS. Seems that BMW have admitted the servos were a mistake, who knows soon they might even fit normal switchgear

Apologies if this is old news but I sure as hell wouldn't want a new bike with servos if they are just about to be scrapped.

 

[Pukmeister]

I think that servo assist is a noble idea on paper, but badly implemented in practice. When fully luggaged up for touring, I am glad of the servo assistance to help haul the thing up. When unladen and solo riding, the servo assistance is just too fierce and robs the rider of feel.

I hope whatever they invent to replace the servo system is as effective but gives better feel at the lever and more progressive action.

 

[Mouse]

http://www.gelandestrasse.com/bmw/bmwabsasc.pdf

 

[JayGee]

http://www.gelandestrasse.com/bmw/bmwabsasc.pdf

Having quickly read this it seems that servos are now replaced by a hydraulic pump that is only needed to generate rear braking while just using the "front" lever. It all seems a bit overthe top to me, the brakes on an R1 are awesome but don't have any of this complication and leave the rider to ucontrol everything so why are BMW getting it all so complex. Soon a BMW out of warranty will be a nightmare when it goes wrong, could be it's like that already. It's funny that other maufacturers (such as Honda) have stopped fitting torque control and now BMW start fitting it!

Still the new system sounds fail safe which the current certainly isn't.

 

[newman7096]

Having experienced servo braking on a 2003 1150 I thought the brakes were way over the top so I always bought non servo assisted GS's which were much better.

Now I have a 1200 with servo assistance and can't believe the difference!

I think the brakes are pretty dam good and I can't say I notice the servo assistance.

I'm suprised they've decided to remove them to be honest now that they're far more refined.

 

[cookie]

i'm puzzeled by bmw's decicision to keep some sort of assistance on the back brake only.

the rear brake does 10% of feck all in slowing a bike down anyway, why would you need more power?

 

[Tomcat]

How do you tell if the ABS cuts in?

I spent some time at the weekend practising emergency stops from 40 mph in a deserted car park. I'm not sure if I actually managed to activate the ABS - there was no pulsing of the levers. Is there a way of telling if the ABS has activated, or was my braking distance (about 18m) just down to my supreme riding skill ?

TC

 

[marcus]

I spent some time at the weekend practising emergency stops from 40 mph in a deserted car park. I'm not sure if I actually managed to activate the ABS - there was no pulsing of the levers. Is there a way of telling if the ABS has activated, or was my braking distance (about 18m) just down to my supreme riding skill ?

TC

There is no pulsating lever. If the ABS activates, you know about it as ABS is a bit rough.

You can stop a lot faster with practice without the ABS

 

[Shep]

I've got to say I quite like the Brakes on the 1200's i've had, all ABS/Servo'd, i've had problems with the system (warning lights coming on etc) but I've been happy with their performance, the first time I was left with residual braking (mud on the brake light switch) was avoidable, now I know how and what to look for The second time I ignored the warning light (in the interest of diagnosis) so my fault really

When I purchased my first 1200GS, I found the brakes stunning, great power & feel at the lightest of touches, now on my third 1200 the brakes feel normal and when I ride other bikes (rarely nowadays ) I always feel a little disapointed with the brakes

I hope the new brakes give the same reassurance when fully loaded, two up, going down a mountain pass.

Shep

 

[Mouse]

i'm puzzeled by bmw's decicision to keep some sort of assistance on the back brake only.

the rear brake does 10% of feck all in slowing a bike down anyway, why would you need more power?

It's not for extra power, it's their way of doing linked brakes.

Think of it as an electric foot pressing the rear brake pedal for you when you pull the front brake on. If it fails, the rear brake will continue to work as normal via the pedal.

 

[cookie]

why on earth would anyone want that?

edit: i suppose guzzi's old linked system works pretty well against the odds, maybe i should try bmw's effort before slagging it.
i think i'd only want it linked from the foot pedal though. when i pull on the front lever i only want the front brake coming on.

 

[ovenpaa]

the rear brake does 10% of feck all in slowing a bike down anyway,

I beg to differ - the back brake on my 2005 Adventure is very effective and also makes for a smoother change if used when downshifting.

Fair to say I seldom use it though....

 

[Mouse]

why on earth would anyone want that?

edit: i suppose guzzi's old linked system works pretty well against the odds, maybe i should try bmw's effort before slagging it.
i think i'd only want it linked from the foot pedal though. when i pull on the front lever i only want the front brake coming on.

You say you've never tried the BMW linked brakes, well I suppose it's one of those things you don't appreciate until you've got it.

For example you can hold the bike on a steep hill (facing either way) with only the front brake.

Servo issues notwithstanding, I think BMW's semi linked system is great.

 

[Tomcat]

i'm puzzeled by bmw's decicision to keep some sort of assistance on the back brake only.

the rear brake does 10% of feck all in slowing a bike down anyway, why would you need more power?

BMWs solution of having some form of electric pump for the back brake seems nowhere near as elegant as Honda's DCBS system (as fitted to the Blackbird) in which the front near side caliper is mounted on a pivot, and as it moves slightly (when braking) so it pressurises the rear brake circuit via a piston and a cunning valve. The harder the front is applied the more the rear circuit is pressurised. I had a Blackbird for several years and the DCBS worked very well in practice - the only irritant was that the rear brake pedal used by itself also applied a bit of front brake.

 

[Clive]

You can stop a lot faster with practice without the ABS

I'd like to see you do this
and I don't just mean while upright on a dry road with road tyres

 

[JayGee]

BMWs solution of having some form of electric pump for the back brake seems nowhere near as elegant as Honda's DCBS system (as fitted to the Blackbird) in which the front near side caliper is mounted on a pivot, and as it moves slightly (when braking) so it pressurises the rear brake circuit via a piston and a cunning valve. The harder the front is applied the more the rear circuit is pressurised. I had a Blackbird for several years and the DCBS worked very well in practice - the only irritant was that the rear brake pedal used by itself also applied a bit of front brake.

Couldn't disagree more, the honda DCBS system is very crude by comparison with the BMW system and on the BMW the rider can operate the rear only. The Honda system does work surprisingly well and is a very simply system so has numerous long term maintenance advantages but the Blackbird just can't match the GS for braking (beats it hands down on the GO, but nowhere near as good at the SLOW).

There is no doubt the GS brakes are superb only let down by a lack of feel and the ABS kicking in way too early.

BTW Tomcat, it's obvious when the ABS kicks in as the bike feels like it's accelerating, actually it's just stopping more slowly. The rear ABS is very crude and you can hear it clonk on and off but the front is more refined wioth little felt at the lever. When I practiced estops on a dry road I found it quite easy to trigger the ABS, it happens way before the rear wheel would normally leave the ground, at least it feels that way. Just squeeze progressively harder from about 60mph and you'll see what the ABS feels like (personally I don't like it, it would not take much skill to outbrake the ABS in good dry conditions- fully loaded on a slippy downhill mountain pass might be a different story )

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

Servo brakes for safety

Hi,
I think I read that BMW had implemented servo brakes as acounter to brake pressure lag. Some research had shown that riders do not brake hard enough early enough in emergencies and servo was provided as a cure. It makes sense to me, and I think the brakes are bloody good. My own criticism reltes to the time it takes for the front abs to reset if you trip it on a wet road or on a bumo, while stoping for traffic lights for example. My R1150GS ABS works differently,and does not give me frights....well, not as many.
Bin

 

[JayGee]

Hi,
.... My own criticism reltes to the time it takes for the front abs to reset if you trip it on a wet road or on a bumo, while stoping for traffic lights for example. My R1150GS ABS works differently,and does not give me frights....well, not as many.
Bin

This is what I meant, it's scarey how long it takes for the brakes to come back on fully, especially in the dry when you didn't need the ABS in the first place.

 

[Bones]

Who needs servos?

Can't stand the servo on my GS.

Pushing the bike around the garden/garage? Got to have the ignition on or no brakes.

Turn ignition on to get brakes working. Horrible whirring servos everytime you touch the brakes. Why? No other servo'd vehicle I have had makes that noise?

Hill starts? Can't touch the brakes when starting the bike else the servos wont work. eg level crossing near home, roll up to gates and turn engine off. Gradient means you need to hold foot or hand on brake leaver. Gates open, start bike, ride off with no brakes It's bollox!!!

Had a R1200S loaner the other day . Didn't notice all that servo noise, wonder if that is using the new setup?

 

[wilbjr21]

Hill starts? Can't touch the brakes when starting the bike else the servos wont work. eg level crossing near home, roll up to gates and turn engine off. Gradient means you need to hold foot or hand on brake leaver. Gates open, start bike, ride off with no brakes It's bollox!!!

No that's not right.

If you want to turn the engine off or do a hill start with the engine stopped just leave it in gear - no need to touch anything. When you want to start, turn the key on and just let it run through the startup; it won't move as it's in gear, pull the clutch in and apply any brake; start the engine and away you go.

Very easy really.