BMW to drop servos

[NorthernBoy]

ABS only kicks in when you brake hard enough to lock up the front wheel

That is simply not true. It is how it ought to work, but not how it does work.

Often, when I have lifted the front a little (and only a little, not a big wheelie), the ABS is in full effect on what is moderate braking on a good surface.

I have also experienced less conclusive examples, such as where normal, slightly firm (not emergency, panic, or a real handfull) braking on a rippled surface has brought it in. This is a level of braking that I simply do not believe would lead to lock-up. I am talking easing down to a junction from 30mph. Something that a drum-braked bakelite-tyred FS1E woudl do with no drama.

The system makes mistakes at the moment.

 

[cookie]

That is simply not true. It is how it ought to work, but not how it does work.

Often, when I have lifted the front a little (and only a little, not a big wheelie), the ABS is in full effect on what is moderate braking on a good surface.

I have also experienced less conclusive examples, such as where normal, slightly firm (not emergency, panic, or a real handfull) braking on a rippled surface has brought it in. This is a level of braking that I simply do not believe would lead to lock-up. I am talking easing down to a junction from 30mph. Something that a drum-braked bakelite-tyred FS1E woudl do with no drama.

The system makes mistakes at the moment.

i've had the back wheel of my ABS 1150 off the deck under controlled braking when the bloody ABS kicked in letting the brakes off altogether. result: i ended up rather further up the road than planned & pikey dave nearly lost a pannier

the front wasn't locked it was just going faster than the back

 

[NorthernBoy]

i've had the back wheel of my ABS 1150 off the deck under controlled braking when the bloody ABS kicked in letting the brakes off altogether. result: i ended up rather further up the road than planned & pikey dave nearly lost a pannier

the front wasn't locked it was just going faster than the back

I guess that it is much harder to get a system to work on a bike than in a car, but it does seem very easy to fool the system on the GS, under pretty normal riding conditions.

I think that I might take to turning the ABS off in conditions where I think it is more likely to do harm than good. Dry roads, on tarmac, when I am riding in a particularly "spirited" manner seems likely to remove all braking at critical points.

 

[JohnC]

I hammer on my ABS equiped brakes (1200 and previously 1100) on a variety of very bumpy B roads every day, and have done so for over a year and 25K miles now with no problems. I think perhaps the ABS has kicked in once, when wet and the road was full of ripples and gravel. I've also stoppied my ABS bikes with no problem. Why would the front ABS kick in when the rear wheel is in the air? The ABS shouldnt let go when doing a stoppie even if the back wheel isnt turning

 

[Mick_rw]

The ABS...

the front wasn't locked it was just going faster than the back

did exactly what it was designed to do, it sees a different rotational speed between the front and rear wheel, the ABS senses this and release the rear wheel brake only, if it released both the front and rear then you have a fault....

 

[NorthernBoy]

I hammer on my ABS equiped brakes (1200 and previously 1100) on a variety of very bumpy B roads every day, and have done so for over a year and 25K miles now with no problems. I think perhaps the ABS has kicked in once, when wet and the road was full of ripples and gravel.

This rather says, then, that your definition of 'hammer" is not that of everyone. Mine kicks in every single day that I ride. You are clearly staying far enough within the limits of traction that you never lock the front at all.

Basically, the fact that you ride in a way that ensures that ABS does not kick in incorrectly has no bearing on whether it does so for others.

 

[JohnC]

This rather says, then, that your definition of 'hammer" is not that of everyone. Mine kicks in every single day that I ride. You are clearly staying far enough within the limits of traction that you never lock the front at all.

Basically, the fact that you ride in a way that ensures that ABS does not kick in incorrectly has no bearing on whether it does so for others.

Perhaps I know how to brake without locking the front? Go figure.

 

[Gonzo]

Mine kicks in every single day that I ride. You are clearly staying far enough within the limits of traction that you never lock the front at all.

This is either because: A) there is a fault with your particular system (get it checked), B) you are a Michelin tyre tester and deliberately try to break a tyre's traction daily or C) how shall I put this, your riding style lacks smoothness and fluidity.

IMVHO of course.

 

[JohnC]

Yup, I'd deffo worry about my bike if it locked up every day

Not just every second day, or once a week, but every day

Perhaps Northernboyracer you should start a new thread, or should I?

'Hey everyone, I lock my bikes brakes up every day' What can the cause possibly be. I'm so cool lol

 

[NorthernBoy]

Perhaps I know how to brake without locking the front? Go figure.

Yes, you probably do, and that is not what we'd then call "hammering", is it?

This is not rocket science now, but I'll type a little more slowly this time.

You ride in a way that does not trigger your ABS. That is irrelevant to the question of whether others have it triggering when it should not.

As has been mentioned previously, if you lift the front wheel, ABS kicks in. If you are not lifting your front, at all, then, again, you are not "hammering".

 

[JohnC]

As above, feel free to invite ridicule with your new 'every day' thread

Hammering = braking hard in my book, perhaps it means grabbing the lever until it DOES lock in yours

 

[JohnC]

as has been mentioned previously, if you lift the front wheel, ABS kicks in. If you are not lifting your front, at all, then, again, you are not "hammering

Emmmm...... If I lift the front wheel then I'm wheelying, not braking

 

[NorthernBoy]

This is either because: A) there is a fault with your particular system (get it checked), B) you are a Michelin tyre tester and deliberately try to break a tyre's traction daily or C) how shall I put this, your riding style lacks smoothness and fluidity.

IMVHO of course.

Yes, it does lack style and fluidity. Do BMW now make bikes that only work if you have smoothness and fluidity?

There is a strange perception amongs many BMW owners that fluidity is the be all and end all of good riding. Quite why this should be, I don't know. I am more than happy to use the skills and techniques from motocross, enduro, and desert raids on the streets, at the right time. It is safe, and it is very often fun.

I now know that when I ride like this, I need to turn off the ABS.

Those who prefer to be holier than thou, and to never, ever feel either end moving around, well, we have little in common, it seems

When I want to unstick the back end on the M3, the traction control is disengaged. When I want to ride the GS sufficiently hard, I disengage the ABS.

And when I drive open wheeled formula cars, I know that the fastest line will not involve any lock-ups, or the back end unsticking, but I look at Schumacher, and realise that the best in the world still manages to lock his wheels, and lose the back when he is pushing hard.

 

[NorthernBoy]

As above, feel free to invite ridicule with your new 'every day' thread

Hammering = braking hard in my book, perhaps it means grabbing the lever until it DOES lock in yours

And your "braking hard" is apparently "pootling" to others. Nothing wrong with that, but staying well inside the bike's limits does not qualify you to offer opinions on the dynamics closer to the edge of the envelope.

I have just come back from about 600 very hard miles in Baja California, with no major spills. If you think that I lack finesse with the front, well, that's fine.

Moronic, but fine.

 

[JohnC]

Yes, it does lack style and fluidity. Do BMW now make bikes that only work if you have smoothness and fluidity?

There is a strange perception amongs many BMW owners that fluidity is the be all and end all of good riding. Quite why this should be, I don't know. I am more than happy to use the skills and techniques from motocross, enduro, and desert raids on the streets, at the right time. It is safe, and it is very often fun.

I now know that when I ride like this, I need to turn off the ABS.

Those who prefer to be holier than thou, and to never, ever feel either end moving around, well, we have little in common, it seems

When I want to unstick the back end on the M3, the traction control is disengaged. When I want to ride the GS sufficiently hard, I disengage the ABS.

And when I drive open wheeled formula cars, I know that the fastest line will not involve any lock-ups, or the back end unsticking, but I look at Schumacher, and realise that the best in the world still manages to lock his wheels, and lose the back when he is pushing hard.

It's not a nice stable car with four independantly controlled wheels, huge tyres and high tech traction/stability control m8, it's an unstable bike with only two wheels and pretty crude ABS. Just in case you forget when jumping out your M3

Oh, and as you ignored my earlier comments ala 'lifting the front', if you meant lifting the rear wheel, aka stoppie, then I can do this no problem without the ABS kicking in, you just need to squeeze the lever, load the front end, throw in a bit of weight transfer, then squeeze the lever a bit more. Taddaaa!!!

 

[NorthernBoy]

It's not a car with four independantly controlled wheels and traction/stability control m8, it's a bike with two wheels and pretty crude ABS. Just in case you forget when jumping out your M3

Oh, and as you ignored my earlier comments ala 'lifting the front', if you meant lifting the rear wheel, aka stoppie, then I can do this no problem without the ABS kicking in, you just need to squeeze the lever, load the fron end, a bit of wight transfer, then squeeze a bit harder. Taddaaa!!!

Yeah, stoppies are often no problem, wheelies big problem. It will stoppie just fine, even in the wet, if the surface is right.

I don't really have a problem having to turn off the ABS sometimes. I still want it available, though, for other times.

What I do have a problem with is some people hinting that only people with poor skills have it kick in in "normal" riding.

The R1200GS is a hooligan bike. Sometimes, I ride mine like I am a bit of a hooligan. ABS off from now for those times.

 

[JohnC]

OK I'm easily confoozed... But is your front wheel locking with the ABS switched on or off?

Sorry if I sound a bit 'moronic', but I get the distinct impression, perhaps quite wrongly (considering your recent Baja trip) that you're not fully ofay with stunt riding bikes yet. Keep up the good work though

 

[NorthernBoy]

OK I'm easily confoozed... But is your front wheel locking with the ABS switched on or off?

Sorry if I sound a bit snide but I get the impression, perhaps quite wrongly (considering you Baja trip) that you're not fully ofay with stunt riding bikes yet. Keep up the good work though

I mean that if you are really pushing the limit, in terms of things like late braking, then you are right up against the lock-up point of the front. If you are too progressive with the front brake, then you coudl have been braking harder earlier.

Not, of course, that this is always appropriate on the road. I certainly don't daily lock the front on the way across London. The way the ABS kicks in daily is in my last few hundred metres, when I whack it open across London Bridge. Even though the front is only a few inches off the deck, there is a fair distance when I have no braking after it is back on the ground.

So, not locking in the dry daily with ABS on, but the ABS is incorrectly (in terms of max braking) firing when I have popped the tiniest of wheelies.

It is something that people need to know about. It took me by surprise the first time that it happened.

 

[NorthernBoy]

Actually, now I think of it, I don't know if I shoudl even describe it as ABS kicking in. When the front touches back down, there is no pulsing when I brake, it is just residual braking for 50 or so metres. Given the fact that I was aving a transition from max power to max braking, 50m of residual braking was not nice.

 

[JohnC]

The way the ABS kicks in daily is in my last few hundred metres

You're scaring me now NB