Would you turn the ABS off on your car
Brakes and ABS
- Thread starter BLUEJAY
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2004
- Messages
- 3,580
- Reaction score
- 47
SEMI-LINKED VS NON-LINKED ABS
The brakes on the ABS version of the 1200GS are semi-linked. If you operate the front lever, the ABS system operates both brakes in an intelligent manner. If you operate just the rear lever, only the rear brake is actioned. I've read more than one review of the 1200GS/GSA which complained of locking rear ABS, this is caused when some numpty of a reviewer operates both levers together.
When you switch off the ABS or if you have a non-ABS bike, the levers are independent.
On the F650/800GS the ABS brakes are NOT LINKED. So when I ride my F650GS rather than the R1200GSA I need to remember to operate both levers. This is either a rather stupid money-saving effort on BMW's part or a deliberate attempt to differentiate the ranges.
Tim
The brakes on the ABS version of the 1200GS are semi-linked. If you operate the front lever, the ABS system operates both brakes in an intelligent manner. If you operate just the rear lever, only the rear brake is actioned. I've read more than one review of the 1200GS/GSA which complained of locking rear ABS, this is caused when some numpty of a reviewer operates both levers together.
When you switch off the ABS or if you have a non-ABS bike, the levers are independent.
On the F650/800GS the ABS brakes are NOT LINKED. So when I ride my F650GS rather than the R1200GSA I need to remember to operate both levers. This is either a rather stupid money-saving effort on BMW's part or a deliberate attempt to differentiate the ranges.
Tim
everywherevirtually
Registered user
I thought you said it was smooth?
I had a guy pull in front of me last year and I yanked hard on the front brake. The ABS worked a treat. I still made contact with the car but considering how close I was to the guy when he pulled the u-turn it was nothing short of miraculous.
I also discovered in Albania what its like without the ABS. I crossed the rough no mans land between Montenegro and Albania and because its nothing more than a pot holed dirt track the ABS was getting twitchy.
A mile down the road on some new black top I entered a bend a little too hot and hit the back brake without the ABS switched on. I did a slide across the road that would have looked perfect in Swan Lake.
Thankfully I kept it shiny side up, narrowly missing an oncoming car and a donkey. Moral of that story was NEVER turn the ABS off on smooth tarmac 
In my view there is nothing wrong with the system and is more likely to be pilot error
mikestatt
Registered user
He's convinced me I'm selling the bike and using the car from now on. Seriously if you have to yank the brakes on when following any vehicle then you're clearly riding too close. Rather than turning of the ABS perhaps taking it a bit steadier is the answer.
ILMV
Registered user
Blobby right, people need to go to a safe location and play with the ABS, see how it works.
I have had a few incents where the ABS has helped me from an embarasing moments, and twice where it saved me from a serious accident. The first serious moment the ABS saved me from I didn't truly understand how it worked. After I avoided riding through the hedge I pulled over, spent two minutes collecting my thoughts, than went down the road (it was empty), stamping on the brakes, just to see how it worked.
So yes, in the correct conditions, go and check how your ABS reacts to proper, heavy breaking. But don't bin it
because I will not be held responsible.
Also, when out riding think about what's going on rather than cruising along as a passenger. Keep a good distance away from the car in font, make sure you aware of the people behind you and always have an escape plan. If I have to break suddenly, I usually leave it a split second before braking to position myself in such a way that if I don't have enough space to break I can glide past the vehicle, instead of into it.
ILMV
I have had a few incents where the ABS has helped me from an embarasing moments, and twice where it saved me from a serious accident. The first serious moment the ABS saved me from I didn't truly understand how it worked. After I avoided riding through the hedge I pulled over, spent two minutes collecting my thoughts, than went down the road (it was empty), stamping on the brakes, just to see how it worked.
So yes, in the correct conditions, go and check how your ABS reacts to proper, heavy breaking. But don't bin it
because I will not be held responsible.Also, when out riding think about what's going on rather than cruising along as a passenger. Keep a good distance away from the car in font, make sure you aware of the people behind you and always have an escape plan. If I have to break suddenly, I usually leave it a split second before braking to position myself in such a way that if I don't have enough space to break I can glide past the vehicle, instead of into it.
ILMV
Klanky
Registered user
Neil,
The link you posted actually makes for interesting reading. It's quite clear from the posts on there that many of them don't understand what ABS is there for or how it works......There's even one guy who appears to criticise the set-up and then says that his Subaru WRX "does the same thing".
Jeesus....
I get the distinct impression thet many of them have screwed up, slammed the back brake on and then crapped themselves as the ABS kicks in - because it's something they've never experienced before. And then had the nerve to say the ABS is somehow 'faulty'.......
Post 127 talks about riders possibly downshifting aggressively as opposed to using the brakes earlier and inducing a light back end. I'd say that this is a more likely scenario than some ABS 'fault' in some instances.
Not trying to be argumentative, but the only reference to the 'advice' to cadence brake when the ABS kicks in appears to be coming from an un linked quote from a BMW parts supplier not BMW.....hmmmm.....I think I'll ignore that advice.
If the back wheel bounces, the ABS will kick in, it's meant to.
If you release the brake, you have just lost all braking - not something that will happen if you keep squeezing.
On a personal note, I've deliberately provoked the ABS on the rear wheel on more than a few occasions so I can get used to the 'feel' of it. It doesn't bother me at all when it kicks in on some of the gravelly crowned tarmac we get up here.
To recap: ABS does not enable you to stop any quicker than 'normal' brakes. It is there to help prevent wheel-lock.....nothing more. In fact, it can lengthen stopping distances in some circumstances. It is not the 'get out of the the shit free' card some think it is.
And on a final note I quote from the Police 'Roadcraft' Manual (p99):
"ABS does no more than provide the rider with an additional safety device. It does not increase the grip of the tyres on the road, nor can it prevent skidding.
In limited circumstances a machine equipped with ABS can stop within a shorter distance than if the wheels were locked, but it does not reduce, and can increase, the stopping distance on a slippery road*."
*Our in our case, when the wheel goes airborne.
The link you posted actually makes for interesting reading. It's quite clear from the posts on there that many of them don't understand what ABS is there for or how it works......There's even one guy who appears to criticise the set-up and then says that his Subaru WRX "does the same thing".
Jeesus....I get the distinct impression thet many of them have screwed up, slammed the back brake on and then crapped themselves as the ABS kicks in - because it's something they've never experienced before. And then had the nerve to say the ABS is somehow 'faulty'.......
Post 127 talks about riders possibly downshifting aggressively as opposed to using the brakes earlier and inducing a light back end. I'd say that this is a more likely scenario than some ABS 'fault' in some instances.
Not trying to be argumentative, but the only reference to the 'advice' to cadence brake when the ABS kicks in appears to be coming from an un linked quote from a BMW parts supplier not BMW.....hmmmm.....I think I'll ignore that advice.
If the back wheel bounces, the ABS will kick in, it's meant to.
If you release the brake, you have just lost all braking - not something that will happen if you keep squeezing.
On a personal note, I've deliberately provoked the ABS on the rear wheel on more than a few occasions so I can get used to the 'feel' of it. It doesn't bother me at all when it kicks in on some of the gravelly crowned tarmac we get up here.
To recap: ABS does not enable you to stop any quicker than 'normal' brakes. It is there to help prevent wheel-lock.....nothing more. In fact, it can lengthen stopping distances in some circumstances. It is not the 'get out of the the shit free' card some think it is.
And on a final note I quote from the Police 'Roadcraft' Manual (p99):
"ABS does no more than provide the rider with an additional safety device. It does not increase the grip of the tyres on the road, nor can it prevent skidding.
In limited circumstances a machine equipped with ABS can stop within a shorter distance than if the wheels were locked, but it does not reduce, and can increase, the stopping distance on a slippery road*."
*Our in our case, when the wheel goes airborne.
smaytum
Registered user
I can associate with this thread. The ABS on my F800GS just seems "wrong". Every now and again, it jumps in on the front lever for no obvious reason and the bike just seems to overun. These are not hard stops or bumpy roads. I've tried both recovery methods... let go and re-apply... or let the ABS do it's bit, but you always overrun.
I've had plenty of cars with ABS and i've had a single cylinder 650GS with ABS, but the F800GS "just seems wrong".
Having said all the above, I did plug the diag (GS911) into my bike recently and it had a single ABS error from way back - only ever occured once. I think the error was that it could not detect speed on the front wheel.
I've had plenty of cars with ABS and i've had a single cylinder 650GS with ABS, but the F800GS "just seems wrong".
Having said all the above, I did plug the diag (GS911) into my bike recently and it had a single ABS error from way back - only ever occured once. I think the error was that it could not detect speed on the front wheel.
lawe
Registered user
I must admit that i liked the ABS on my 650GS thumper better than the one on the 800GS. When running on street tires (battlewings, Anaake et.c) on tarmac I have the ABS enabled. Otherwise I disable it by unplugging the contact under the seat. I never use it on gravel and I have found that it does not perform well on tarmac either with knobby tires (like TKC80).
But as the bike is shipped from BMW (the tires) and how most people use the bike the ABS is great. It save lives.
ABS Or Not
When making a decision about ABS you need to go through the same decision making process that you do when selecting a bike. Make sure you know exactly how it works then asses if the technology suits you on the bike. Some of the less obvious items you need to consider are:
1.Your driving style, are you lazy when braking all front brake and no back. Results in more dive up front and a tendency for the rear to lift, none of us would admit to this but the majority do it. A bike with dual braking would suit you more (F650GS is not Dual Brake assisted).
2.Your weight and how that affects the dive of the forks up front and lift at the rear end under heavy braking.
3.How you sit on the bike, well forward or back.
4.Suspension settings, soft or hard.
ABS is new to many of us and we just assume that it’s an improvement. It definitely is as long as you consider all of the factors when making decisions. The majority of F650GS riders have not experienced the delayed braking issues that others have and are totally happy with the bike and the braking performance. I am a big chap, 110KG plus with an upfront riding position and had a firm suspension setting on the F650GS, this resulted in the rear having more of a tendency to lift when hitting bumps than other riders would have under braking. On the F650GS that result’s in the ABS kicking in and a delayed brake response. I shifted the bike and got a 1200GS with ABS and haven’t looked back.
Before you buy take stock of the above and make sure you know how it works. When on your test drive try and test those points. Don’t believe everything you read, make sure for yourself that you are happy with it. If you test drive the bike and don’t test drive the ABS you wont know that you have made the right choice until you need it! Or until you have lashed out a big pile of cash, either way big mistake.
When making a decision about ABS you need to go through the same decision making process that you do when selecting a bike. Make sure you know exactly how it works then asses if the technology suits you on the bike. Some of the less obvious items you need to consider are:
1.Your driving style, are you lazy when braking all front brake and no back. Results in more dive up front and a tendency for the rear to lift, none of us would admit to this but the majority do it. A bike with dual braking would suit you more (F650GS is not Dual Brake assisted).
2.Your weight and how that affects the dive of the forks up front and lift at the rear end under heavy braking.
3.How you sit on the bike, well forward or back.
4.Suspension settings, soft or hard.
ABS is new to many of us and we just assume that it’s an improvement. It definitely is as long as you consider all of the factors when making decisions. The majority of F650GS riders have not experienced the delayed braking issues that others have and are totally happy with the bike and the braking performance. I am a big chap, 110KG plus with an upfront riding position and had a firm suspension setting on the F650GS, this resulted in the rear having more of a tendency to lift when hitting bumps than other riders would have under braking. On the F650GS that result’s in the ABS kicking in and a delayed brake response. I shifted the bike and got a 1200GS with ABS and haven’t looked back.
Before you buy take stock of the above and make sure you know how it works. When on your test drive try and test those points. Don’t believe everything you read, make sure for yourself that you are happy with it. If you test drive the bike and don’t test drive the ABS you wont know that you have made the right choice until you need it! Or until you have lashed out a big pile of cash, either way big mistake.
smaytum
Registered user
It's more simple than this. If your natural reaction to a sudden and unexpected braking event means that you lock the front wheel then you should seriously consider ABS. If you can deliver effective controlled breaking in this same scenario, then forget the ABS.
On a bike (not in a car), good controlled breaking can stop you faster than ABS in just about all conditions. In a car it's different because the wheels could be distributed across different surfaces and you only have one brake pedal.
So that's the answer Now for the question... can YOU naturally control a bike under sudden extreme conditions
Me... i took the ABS option
On a bike (not in a car), good controlled breaking can stop you faster than ABS in just about all conditions. In a car it's different because the wheels could be distributed across different surfaces and you only have one brake pedal.
So that's the answer
Now for the question... can YOU naturally control a bike under sudden extreme conditions Me... i took the ABS option
Klanky
Registered user
Whilst I've played about with the back brake to find out what the ABS will do, I've only ever had the front ABS kick in once.
That was when I was following a dozy old boy who was wandering down the single track to Altnaharra...I'd drifted off into La-La land at the precise moment the local postie came hammering round the bend in the opposite direction. I nailed the brakes as hard as i could as i certainly was going to rear-end the car.
Managed to haul the front end to the right and just miss the back of the car with the ABS banging like mad.
To put it simply, no ABS would have put me straight into the back of the car, no question about it.
But my point is that this is the only time I have had the front ABS kick in, that was on Battlewings. I've been running on TK's for some time now and have braked sharply (in non-emergency situations) to try and provoke the ABS...it hasn't provoked it yet.
So my own personal conclusion is that the front wheel ABS only kicks in when it is really needed, whereas the rear ABS is a little more sensitive - but not to the point where it causes problems. The real trick is to find out what your bike (and your) capabilities are and ride accordingly.
That was when I was following a dozy old boy who was wandering down the single track to Altnaharra...I'd drifted off into La-La land at the precise moment the local postie came hammering round the bend in the opposite direction. I nailed the brakes as hard as i could as i certainly was going to rear-end the car.
Managed to haul the front end to the right and just miss the back of the car with the ABS banging like mad.
To put it simply, no ABS would have put me straight into the back of the car, no question about it.
But my point is that this is the only time I have had the front ABS kick in, that was on Battlewings. I've been running on TK's for some time now and have braked sharply (in non-emergency situations) to try and provoke the ABS...it hasn't provoked it yet.
So my own personal conclusion is that the front wheel ABS only kicks in when it is really needed, whereas the rear ABS is a little more sensitive - but not to the point where it causes problems. The real trick is to find out what your bike (and your) capabilities are and ride accordingly.
bris_mac
Guest
See, that's about the opposite of what I've found.
For me, the back brake seems calibrated spot on. Only had it kick in when I would otherwise have expected a lock up, usually when deliberately experimenting with it.
The front on the other hand is far too sensitive to any imperfections in the road. Since I've had my 800GS I've caused the front ABS to kick in many times under what I would consider fairly normal hard braking. Not emergency yanking a handful. For instance braking hard but progressively up to the line at a traffic light, due to come to a stop just at it, instead the ABS gets upset by a tiny ripple and I end up shooting about 3 foot over the line. Or sometimes slight braking on uneven surfaces ie rolling quite slowly down hill towards a junction , dragging a small amount of front brake, and a series of those small 5 inch iron access covers just totally removed the front brake for a few yards.
What it feels like to me is that the system is very very quick to react to the momentary wheel slowing/locking caused by a bump, but not quick enough to react when the problem has gone away. Removes your braking instantly, but only considers giving it back every quarter of a second. Without ABS a small 6 inch wide ridge in the road wouldn't cause you to lock up, but with ABS you lose braking for a couple of yards.
It's bad enough to make me very cautious when going over those warning strips at the end of a dual carriageway for example.
Now, I know there'll be some people reading this who will just assume I'm a ham fisted buffoon, grabbing a handful without any consideration for the conditions. But, I've been riding everyday , year round, for years on other bikes without ABS, and I've locked the front at most maybe once a year, and only in greasy conditions. Certainly not washing the front out twice a week on good dry tarmac, which the BMW ABS claims I would be .
So, nice idea, but not perfect yet. Like the sound of that new Honda sytem though ...
For me, the back brake seems calibrated spot on. Only had it kick in when I would otherwise have expected a lock up, usually when deliberately experimenting with it.
The front on the other hand is far too sensitive to any imperfections in the road. Since I've had my 800GS I've caused the front ABS to kick in many times under what I would consider fairly normal hard braking. Not emergency yanking a handful. For instance braking hard but progressively up to the line at a traffic light, due to come to a stop just at it, instead the ABS gets upset by a tiny ripple and I end up shooting about 3 foot over the line. Or sometimes slight braking on uneven surfaces ie rolling quite slowly down hill towards a junction , dragging a small amount of front brake, and a series of those small 5 inch iron access covers just totally removed the front brake for a few yards.
What it feels like to me is that the system is very very quick to react to the momentary wheel slowing/locking caused by a bump, but not quick enough to react when the problem has gone away. Removes your braking instantly, but only considers giving it back every quarter of a second. Without ABS a small 6 inch wide ridge in the road wouldn't cause you to lock up, but with ABS you lose braking for a couple of yards.
It's bad enough to make me very cautious when going over those warning strips at the end of a dual carriageway for example.
Now, I know there'll be some people reading this who will just assume I'm a ham fisted buffoon, grabbing a handful without any consideration for the conditions. But, I've been riding everyday , year round, for years on other bikes without ABS, and I've locked the front at most maybe once a year, and only in greasy conditions. Certainly not washing the front out twice a week on good dry tarmac, which the BMW ABS claims I would be
.So, nice idea, but not perfect yet. Like the sound of that new Honda sytem though ...
Myke Rocks
Registered user
ABS & crusty ones
Regarding the crusty ones:
Your dickie is in the ashes.
It is, generally, the crusty ones (also experienced) who prefer ABS.
It is the young ones, who think they have the reactions of formula one drivers & have heard too much garbage on the subject who do not want ABS.
Regarding the crusty ones:
Your dickie is in the ashes.
It is, generally, the crusty ones (also experienced) who prefer ABS.
It is the young ones, who think they have the reactions of formula one drivers & have heard too much garbage on the subject who do not want ABS.
ABS - Steering
Following a 400yr old nonce pulling out in front of me on an A road, the option of controlled braking was not possible but having ABS I was able to stay buttered side up and steer without washing out. Although I pole valted the car, I scrubbed off loads of energy which reflected in my lack of injurys 
but washing out and hitting at low level could have gotten me a flight in the hele meat cart. that turned up.
Also the following chap managed to miss all and steer round with an 1150 ABS.
Although bike was writen off - I was not, So ABS
Following a 400yr old nonce pulling out in front of me on an A road
, the option of controlled braking was not possible but having ABS I was able to stay buttered side up and steer without washing out. Although I pole valted the car, I scrubbed off loads of energy which reflected in my lack of injurys but washing out and hitting at low level could have gotten me a flight in the hele meat cart. that turned up.Also the following chap managed to miss all and steer round with an 1150 ABS.
Although bike was writen off - I was not, So ABS
Similar threads
