Brakes Failed Today!

[ELIMINATOR]

BMW aren't interested until someone dies. Then probably less so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[jonnie comet]

Engineer..........Believe me, without power, you have practically no brakes. It is not " ify " It is " sheeeeeet " This is on an 1150. I can't speak for 12's........

 

[Dr.ABS Brake]

Don't forget to remember the lucky riders that survived dangerous brake failures:


Steve B.

Dutchman

ELIMINATOR

Arthurwg

Dr. ABS Brake

What if someone will not have luck? Really everybody should be aware of the isssue I-ABS III Servo Brakes. It's public all over the world, in the newspapers, in the magazines and in the internet.

Dr. ABS Brake


BMW Motorräder Nr. 13 ("MO") In this copy you find an interview with BMW about the brakes, 3 pages.

 

[bum125]

I think that there are some mis-understandings here. If there is an electrical fault that causes the servo not to function then you still have residual braking - this should still be sufficient to stop the bike but will need much greater lever pressure to get the same amount of braking force as when the servo was working.

I've got an 05 GS12 and I've done several practice stops with the key off. You, me & three of our best friends can all step on the pedal & pull on the brake lever at the same time & not come up with 1/2 of the braking power you have with the servos working. I love the power of the servo brakes, but if you ever have a cage pull out in front of you at the same time as you have a servo failure, your ass is up the creek, without a paddle.

 

[Bigmixer]

Steptoe,
I did a search as you suggested The results are enough to make me sure I want nothing at all to do with an electric servo!!! It's just a pity I'l have to forego ABS
Thanks,
Bigmixer

 

[Engineer]

I've got an 05 GS12 and I've done several practice stops with the key off. You, me & three of our best friends can all step on the pedal & pull on the brake lever at the same time & not come up with 1/2 of the braking power you have with the servos working. I love the power of the servo brakes, but if you ever have a cage pull out in front of you at the same time as you have a servo failure, your ass is up the creek, without a paddle.

I'm glad that I ordered my 1200GS without ABS.

 

[Dr.ABS Brake]

I'm glad that I ordered my 1200GS without ABS.

It seems that a premium company discredited the good idea of ABS with obviously unreliable and unnecessarily technologiy: servos. And they drop this needlessly shit in the future.

I call this progress. Just my thoughts.

Dr.

 

[ELIMINATOR]

Steve B, lightening struck me twice. I have had two servo pumps on my 53, 2003 GS. First one wouldn't stop servoing when brake lever relased! Second one just packed up within aprox. 8 weeks or less, no warning lights until after the bike stopped. Fortunately, in first gear leaving my house when it happened.

 

[Bigmixer]

As I mentioned previously I e-mailed BMW customer Information outlining my concerns and quoting Ewan on "The Long Way Round" as saying "don't have any brakes at all". Amongst other things the reply said "At no point during the tour were any of the team left with no brakes" and "We have not had any further reports of brake or servo failures throughout the R 1150 GS Adventures' lifecycle"
Bigmixer

 

[ELIMINATOR]

Obviously forgot about me then. I qwrote to them, they phoned me back & just waffled.

 

[B Murr]

You'd imagine that there would have been a recall if a serious life threatening problem existed. Then again I seem to recall that in the 1970's there was a car on USA market which was made by the good Ford Motor Corporation. I think it was called the Pony, it used to have a habit of exploding into a fireball when rear-ended. Something to do with the fuel tank being badly positioned. Would have cost millions to recall and rectify. Some smart accountant in the corporation calculated that it was cheaper to payout for the lawsuits than to rectify. This was revealed in court and the judge made it worth their while to recall

Does BMW have such an accountant?

Do they give a shit?

Has anyone seriously tried to make them give a shit?

 

[Dr.ABS Brake]

BMW does obviously not have a way to address the issue by recall - or at least one that won't seriously damage the company from a financial standpoint.

I doubt BMW can and will openly agree that this is a situation that requires solution, because then confessing there are 220.000 BMW brand bikes running around where the brakes may fail will damage the company's reputation to the point where it may go out of business.

As of today they don't give a shit about the mess. The invented this crap, they sold this crap – now die with this crap.

Just my thoughts

 

[Steve B]

Steve B, lightening struck me twice. I have had two servo pumps on my 53, 2003 GS. First one wouldn't stop servoing when brake lever relased! Second one just packed up within aprox. 8 weeks or less, no warning lights until after the bike stopped. Fortunately, in first gear leaving my house when it happened.

Replaced twice!? How does that affect your confidence? I must admit when I got to Bath Rd BMW in Bristol after it happened the service manager came out and on pushing the back brake pedal the servo wouldn't go off until I pressed the brake lever on the handle bars. Mentioned this to the warranty chap at CW who said they were aware of this quirk and weren't concerned about it from a safety point of view. I do hope this is a one off.

Phone call from CW service dept this morning and the new servo has arrived from Germany. I'm already to get it to them for replacing next Wednesday. Hope the weather picks up.

Ride safe

Steve B

 

[Bigmixer]

As of this morning my new Adventure is coming without ABS but more importantly without servo brakes. Without the info. on this forum I wouldn't have been aware of this issue until it would have been too late to do anything about it
Thanks,
Bigmixer

 

[Dr.ABS Brake]

As of this morning my new Adventure is coming without ABS but more importantly without servo brakes. Without the info. on this forum I wouldn't have been aware of this issue until it would have been too late to do anything about it

As you know the whole mess is documented in the new special issue no 13 (BMW MOTORBIKES) "MO".

Now I am dealing with an american editor (BMW Club) to air this view to the english speaking community. I am confident of publishing all that - mayby more radical than in MO - in the next months.

As to my knowledge BMW addresses this situation in the UK by publishing an article in the BMW Club journal. It should be published in the March edition but if the deadline was not met it might be April. Is any BMW Club member her that could report about this BMW "advertisement"?

To my knowledge this BMW "article" deals with the case for there "being a lack of knowledge within the motorcycling fraternity".

Dr.

 

[Dr.ABS Brake]

Australia: Failing servo brakes !!!

Mark Haynes (Australia)

http://www.bikersoracle.com/rs/forum/showthread.php?p=9034#post9034

"Well I was one of the unlucky ones who started braking from approx 80km/h for a roundabout & was greeted with no braking power at all from the F& R brakes, no servo assist, no power & a F lever against the bars (& Yes I have smallish hands) Luckily the R1150RS has great engine braking but in the split seconds I panicked a bit partial rear brake lockup quickly corrected. Two red lights on the dash flashing quickly.. I just managed to pull up before running into that car which had stopped at the roundabout..."

http://www.bikersoracle.com/rs/forum/showthread.php?p=9056#post9056

"I am still annoyed at the workshop for not giving me the full story of the bits they replaced it was all very hush-hush the way it was handled & they were very "cagey" when I asked questions..."


Dr.

 

[Kropotkin]

The good Dr. Brake. I read the MO special, and hope to get around to posting a summary in English here and on Advrider. However, it is going to take some time, so don't hold your breath.

 

[Dr.ABS Brake]

... I read the MO special, ... posting a summary in English here and on Advrider. ...

Fine. Keep us posted.

Bob Whittle, USA:

"I experienced total failure of ABS and the servo system on my 02 R1150RT."

"I realized from the flames I got when I reported the brake problems on the net that there are people who just don't want to know about problems. They will never change unless and until they experience the problem themselves. You pray that they will survive when it happens."

 

[ahutcheon]

Can anybody who has suffered these brake failures tell us whether there is a failure mode more serious (i.e. less brakes) than with the ignition off?

I ride an '03 1150GS. I just tried coasting down the steepest quiet road I could find nearby, and from 40mph the "non-servo" brakes stop reasonably effectively. On a dirt surface, a good tread on the lever will lock the back. Much more lever pressure and slower stopping than with the servo, but better brakes than some '70s bikes I rode that passed the MoT test (early Honda 550/4s were nasty, old Guzzis had decent Brembos if you had strong hands...).

We could argue all day that residual brakes enough to scrape through an MoT are/aren't safe. I agree they'd be very scary if you expected or were relying on normal operation. But so would a front tyre blowout...

What I really want to know is whether the sub-standard brakes I just experienced are as bad as it gets, or whether there's another scenario that might give me less than the bad old days of drums at both ends?

Thanks for any illumination,
Andy

 

[Dr.ABS Brake]

Can anybody who has suffered these brake failures tell us ...

Hi Andy,

In case of back-up hydraulic mode (known best as "total brake failure") you have to adjust the brake lever to the widest position (you find that suggestion in the manual), otherwise you don’t get maximum residual braking action. How can you do that while riding? How can you do that immediately? It’s even worse. In case of the back-up of I-ABS III suddenly the brakes are not combined any more and the ABS ceases to function. Modulating and feeling for the brakes is much different than before, that’s an operating state that the rider is not used to. And in addition to these servo failures there are scary software characteristics because of the stoppie prevent mechanism, opening the front brake on bumpy pavement, widely discussed in the internet and nearly every motorcycle magazine, at least in German "MOTORRAD" and German "MO Special Edtion BMW MOTORRÄDER 13". Only GS riders have the luck to deactivate ABS.

Back to your question, and please think about my answer:

Brakes don't need to fail at any "precise moment" to create an emergency situation. It's the unexpected failure that creates the emergency!

It's a good idea doing training with residual braking action, but you should train wiht reasonable speed. You should try at least 80 mph.

Dr.