Brembos now fitted to new models ?

[spoonz]

Residuals are poor on BMW as well and Ducati probably no worse in reality. I lost less money on my Hypermotard in 2 years than i did on the XR in 2 years

Hve you seen the residuals of top marque cars like S class merc or Range rover ?

In real terms a few quid here or there makes fuck all difference but for a bit of balance ive just had a very quick look on Autotrader at 2nd hand 1250 GS rallye and 1260 Multistrada S which are similar price new
They seem to be selling or advertised at around the £12K mark for both so it seems a moot point

It depends a lot on mileage. A low mileage Ducati will hold its value but a higher mileage bmw will be worth more than the average high mileage duke it seems. You will sell a 10k multi all day long but a 30k one less so. It’s not unusual to see 1 year old gs with north of 20k on the clocks.

Out of interest I wonder what the pcp costs are for a 10k per year multi compared to a gs ?

 

[RedRick Esq.]

It depends a lot on mileage. A low mileage Ducati will hold its value but a higher mileage bmw will be worth more than the average high mileage duke it seems. You will sell a 10k multi all day long but a 30k one less so. It’s not unusual to see 1 year old gs with north of 20k on the clocks.

Out of interest I wonder what the pcp costs are for a 10k per year multi compared to a gs ?

You may be right but the 4 year unlimited miles warranty on Ducati MS with longer service intervals now speaks volumes and would give a prospective buyer of a 3 year old 30K bike a tad more confidence than an out of waranty 30K BMW i suspect

Having said all that its oranges and apples but back to the caliper issue at least Ducati are using top spec Brembo M50 calipers rather than some obscure brand that no one had ever really heard of

 

[spoonz]

You may be right but the 4 year unlimited miles warranty on Ducati MS with longer service intervals now speaks volumes and would give a prospective buyer of a 3 year old 30K bike a tad more confidence than an out of waranty 30K BMW i suspect

Having said all that its oranges and apples but back to the caliper issue at least Ducati are using top spec Brembo M50 calipers rather than some obscure brand that no one had ever really heard of

Had never heard of. I think they are well on the map now even if not for the best of reasons.

 

[Daggerit]

Had never heard of. I think they are well on the map now even if not for the best of reasons.

I think if you worked on some heavy machinery, snowmobiles or Harleys (as a few examples) then you would have heard of them before now... They've been around for years making brakes, it's not like they've suddenly appeared just to do BMW brakes.

 

[spoonz]

I think if you worked on some heavy machinery, snowmobiles or Harleys (as a few examples) then you would have heard of them before now... They've been around for years making brakes, it's not like they've suddenly appeared just to do BMW brakes.

Very true. I’m a life long cyclist so was aware of the brand but I think they were off the radar of the average motorcyclist unless they were familiar with Harley etc

 

[Daggerit]

Very true. I’m a life long cyclist so was aware of the brand but I think they were off the radar of the average motorcyclist unless they were familiar with Harley etc

I would imagine you're right! My point was purely that they're not new to making braking components as many seem to think. Yes, there's a few that are leaking but I have no doubt that they'll sort it.

 

[Mr Bean]

I am on my second Ducati and on both the build quality and components are very very good even the tool kit is a quality bit of kit compared to the screwdriver from BMW

So you only got 50% of the toolkit and missed out on the spanner - I got both

Ducati have also been having issues - doubtful that they've over-specced the components...

https://www.visordown.com/news/general/ducati-recalls-panigale-v4-monster-and-supersport-models

IMO BMW are no worse than other manufacturers, but I do think that they trade on the perception of producing higher quality bikes than other makers.

 

[RedRick Esq.]

I think if you worked on some heavy machinery, snowmobiles or Harleys (as a few examples) then you would have heard of them before now... They've been around for years making brakes, it's not like they've suddenly appeared just to do BMW brakes.

HArleys are well renowned for their superb stopping ability

Oh Hang on .....

Big difference between a 130BHP premium motorcycle and a mountain bike

I have no axe to grind in fairness and care not what calipers BMW chose to put on their bikes but the defence of BMW by its loyal customers over issues such as this is what lets them get away with it

Where does it end

Wheels that fall apart brake calipers that leak, engines and frames that rust in front of your very eyes shift cam that fails, look at why these things are failing and there is only one conclusion i can come to and that is the cost cutting has gone a bit too far

 

[casbar]

HArleys are well renowned for their superb stopping ability

Oh Hang on .....

Big difference between a 130BHP premium motorcycle and a mountain bike

I have no axe to grind in fairness and care not what calipers BMW chose to put on their bikes but the defence of BMW by its loyal customers over issues such as this is what lets them get away with it

Where does it end

Wheels that fall apart brake calipers that leak, engines and frames that rust in front of your very eyes shift cam that fails, look at why these things are failing and there is only one conclusion i can come to and that is the cost cutting has gone a bit too far

Yes, best you stick to the superb Italian quality. Around 2014, when ABS was really coming to the fore, Harley had the best ABS braking system in the World on their bikes. But of course it was Bosch electronics and Hayes Callipers I'll keep riding my shit 1250 and enjoying the coffee at my dealers when I'm in for warranty work for the next 3 years

 

[Daggerit]

HArleys are well renowned for their superb stopping ability

Oh Hang on .....

Big difference between a 130BHP premium motorcycle and a mountain bike

I have no axe to grind in fairness and care not what calipers BMW chose to put on their bikes but the defence of BMW by its loyal customers over issues such as this is what lets them get away with it

Where does it end

Wheels that fall apart brake calipers that leak, engines and frames that rust in front of your very eyes shift cam that fails, look at why these things are failing and there is only one conclusion i can come to and that is the cost cutting has gone a bit too far

To be fair, they're at least twice the mass to stop and generally have smaller calipers and/or smaller discs so it's not really a fair comparison.

Also, you're still on the mountain bike thing but they made brakes for powered vehicles before they made them for bikes, so again not a very valid argument in my mind.

All bikes have issues across the range, I'd be very impressed if you could come up with a single model that's had no issues.

And I've not heard of any shiftcam failures? Or am I missing something?

 

[Tyzer]

To be fair, they're at least twice the mass to stop and generally have smaller calipers and/or smaller discs so it's not really a fair comparison.

Also, you're still on the mountain bike thing but they made brakes for powered vehicles before they made them for bikes, so again not a very valid argument in my mind.

All bikes have issues across the range, I'd be very impressed if you could come up with a single model that's had no issues.

And I've not heard of any shiftcam failures? Or am I missing something?

I know one,2012 ZZR 1400 owned from new for 5 years no issues only went to the dealer when it needed a service.

 

[Daggerit]

I know one,2012 ZZR 1400 owned from new for 5 years no issues only went to the dealer when it needed a service.

But I bet there were other people that had some sort of issues on the forums? That's what I'm meaning, no bike is squeaky clean...

 

[Nutty]

All businesses look at their costs and cut them where possible to increase profits - it shouldn't be a surprise.

That's all well and good, and how most businesses are run, but when they are increasing the price of the bikes, and reducing the quality of the components, do you think that's acceptable? I certainly don't.

 

[Nutty]

And I've not heard of any shiftcam failures? Or am I missing something?

Reported on these very pages, are folks that have rejected one or even two bikes due to shift cam failure.

 

[turpin]

Reported on these very pages, are folks that have rejected one or even two bikes due to shift cam failure.

Maybe I've missed something Nutty but can you or anybody point me in the right direction for the thread which has details of 'shiftcam failures' as I would like to read their comments?

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

Maybe I've missed something Nutty but can you or anybody point me in the right direction for the thread which has details of 'shiftcam failures' as I would like to read their comments?

Type shift cam failures into the Search and you will come up with a number of threads but no actual shift cam failures I could find, it seems they are more reliable than suggested

 

[turpin]

Type shift cam failures into the Search and you will come up with a number of threads but no actual shift cam failures I could find, it seems they are more reliable than suggested

Yep done that but couldn't find any thread which mentions shiftcam failure. There again it is Nutty with another wooden spoon comment

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Getting out my bestest and biggest wooden spoon
I forgot to include the fork stanchion debacle

And i dare not even mention Kevin Ash


Wooden spoon aside my issue with BMW is that they actually have a great bike, probably the best bike in the world as an overall package that does everything well ( it is outshone in many aspects like handling and performance by other bikes in its segment most noticeably the Multistrada and the XR but you wouldn't take them off road like you might a GS ) it is such a shame that BMW seem to insist on spoiling this great bike to save a few pence on the build.

We as owners and buyers of motorbikes put up with it where as owners and buyers of top end cars ( price point wise and pro rata a GS has to be up in the Porsche, Top mercedes , BMW,jag etc class) just would not stand for it.

A bike costing the thick end of £20K ( or more) should not have defects like those mentioned it should be as perfect and well made as is possible

 

[Delboy777]

Type shift cam failures into the Search and you will come up with a number of threads but no actual shift cam failures I could find, it seems they are more reliable than suggested

Thats just Nutty trying to deflect attention away from the fact he has a KTM, who are not free of their problems either. I dont think there is any european bike thats completely fault free. Most but not all jap offerings are bullet proof but they dont make a bike that i want to own just now.

 

[Nutty]

Thats just Nutty trying to deflect attention away from the fact he has a KTM, who are not free of their problems either. I dont think there is any european bike thats completely fault free. Most but not all jap offerings are bullet proof but they dont make a bike that i want to own just now.

There’s nothing to deflect, I’ve not had a single issue with either of my KTM’s.

I’d never rule out another GS though, but while the prices are going up, and the cost cutting continues, it won’t be anytime soon.