Clutch / Gearbox knocking noise

[Raggitash]

Hi folks
You've heard it before but I can not find an answer on any of the forums. Some say it is the tensioner (Dont think so), some say it is the input shaft (Oh please no), and some say just leave it (Cant do that).

So this describes my problem:-

My 2001 R1150GS (44K miles) .

Cold running engine, transmission in neutral, clutch engage (lever out) – no knocking/slapping sound
Cold running engine, transmission in neutral, clutch disengage (lever in) – no knocking/slapping sound

Warm running engine, transmission in neutral, clutch engage (lever out) – no knocking/slapping sound
Warm running engine, transmission in neutral, clutch disengage (lever in) – knocking/slapping sound

The bike runs fine with no false neutral, gear change is crisp. I am new to BMWs but have a 916 and know a noisy engine when I hear it but this is worrying me.

Has someone out there actually fixed this problem or not.

All the best Raggi

 

[Colban]

A good pair of earplugs will solve most of the problems.
What oil is in the bike?.15/50 makes the motor quieter,esecially once its warmed up.
Have the throttle bodies been balanced correctly?.Irregular/uneven firing can cause imbalance/noise.How does the bike run/rev-any vibration?.
The gearbox input shaft is a real but unpleasant possibility (i had to do mine),but you can change the clutch/lube shafts/check bearings when you go in there.Winter job.
What does worry me though is that you think a 2001 1150GS has a crisp gearbox.Maybe the 916s needs a little work.

 

[Raggitash]

Hi

"What oil is in the bike?" 20/50.

"Have the throttle bodies been balanced correctly?" :-Yes did them a couple of weeks ago, it did make a diffrence but not to the knocking.

"The gearbox input shaft is a real but unpleasant possibility (i had to do mine)" :-Were the symptoms the same for you eg knocking noises?

"What does worry me though is that you think a 2001 1150GS has a crisp gearbox.":- Depends on the footwear I have on.

Has anyone had this problem and cured it? If so how?

cheers

 

[pablo666]

Sounds like a clutch problem. St. eptoe recently diagnosed a noisey GB/Clutch as a kaput slave cylinder.

My guess since if clutch in and GB in nutral, the GB shouldn't be spinning so the only moving parts are engine and clutch (I believe)

HTH

 

[Raggitash]

OK
"My guess since if clutch in and GB in nutral, the GB shouldn't be spinning so the only moving parts are engine and clutch."

Does that not mean that there is the possibility of lateral movement on the input shaft, given that the clutch is removed from supporting it now?

If this is the case then nothing need be done, but, if it is a sideways movement then this is indicative of bearing failure which is a whole new can of worms.

Been trying to get Mr Steptoes input but not sure if he hibernates or not.

All the best
Steve

 

[MattW]

With clutch pulled in (disengaged), you've disconnected the gearbox from the engine. As you say, you have removed support from the input shaft and its bearing, but there'd have to be a lot of clutch drag to get a slapping noise from the input shaft (does it stop if you chock the back wheel to stop it moving - gearbox in neutral, clutch pulled in?). If you're suggesting that the knocking noise would be coming from vibration rattling the stationary input shaft around, then the bearing would have to be so comprehensively sha**ed that I think it'd sound like a coffee grinder and be virtually unrideable.

Occam's razor says to me that it's more likely to be the clutch but if you aren't confident diagnosing it yourself, you'll need to get it to a 'trained ear' (i.e. a Steptoe). If it turns out to be the master cylinder then it's easy, but if it's a clutch / bearing problem it's a 'transmission off' situation, so diagnosis becomes easy (but a little expensive if you don't do it yourself).

Or you just continue to ride and see what happens....

BTW, have you definitely ruled out the cam chain tensioner? (Noises and their locations can be deceptive...)

 

[Colban]

"The gearbox input shaft is a real but unpleasant possibility (i had to do mine)" :-Were the symptoms the same for you eg knocking noises?

Not so much a knocking;more of a rattle.
Sounds like (sic) that you need an experienced ear for a second opinion.
BWMs do make a lot of strange sounds;most of which you can ignore...but once in a while......

 

[Deak]

When you pull the clutch lever in, the release bearing will press onto the clutch release "fingers" in the centre of the pressure plate. This also has the effect of pushing onto the end of the crank which in turn loads the crank thrust washer.

I've had the same noise on both my 1150's when the engine oil was very hot. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless it starts to make the noise all the time or you also get a grinding noise with the rattle which would indicate the thrust washers are knackered.

As people have already said, wear earplugs and take no notice "they all do that Sir"

 

[slalom]

Hi Raggi
It's not a lot of help but my 1150, same age and mileage as yours has been making this noise since about 25000 miles. When the engine is very hot there is a definate 'Donk,Donk,Donk', from deep inside the engine, with no rattle. I suspect Deak above is correct.
Just carry on riding until something doesen't work any more.

Graham

 

[Raggitash]

Right then.
I have spoken to Steptoe (Very helpful man) and a bloke at motobins about the problem. Both concur that the clutch slave is probably the problem although both say, understandably, that diagnosis over the phone is not the best way to do things.
They specifically point a finger at the small thrust bearing within the thrust piston which wears if you hold the clutch in habitually at lights etc.
Didnt know that, did you?
That being the case perhaps leaving it for the time being will not do any harm and I will purchase a whole (Cause you cant buy parts) slave unit at approx £65 when things are a bit chillier up the glens.

Cheers for the help I'll let you know the outcome.

Raggi

 

[MOTOTECH]

You're going to love this.
Last 1150 I heard making excessive noise hot with the clutch disengaged was badly worn splines on clutch plate & gearbox input shaft. This required a gearbox strip & good used shaft fitted. Have someone who knows listen to it as they can be quite noisy & hopefully they will tell you it's not excessive.

 

[Raggitash]

You're going to love this.
Last 1150 I heard making excessive noise hot with the clutch disengaged was badly worn splines on clutch plate & gearbox input shaft.

Mr Moto
Thanks for the input (I think).

As previously noted the noise is a donk donk donk (Insert own donking/thumping/slapping noise) almost like a big end bearing knackered.

Obviosly it is not the big end as it disappears when clutch pulled in.

It is not a rattle/ticking noise and it is not what I would call loud (Subjective).

Would you describe your "excessive noise" the same way and what other symptom telltales did you discover?

I am unaware of anyone local to help me out (None of my mates own a GS) so I am making it up as I go along, with a little help from the good people on this forum.

 

[pops]

Did you fix the bike?

Hi Raggitash. Did you fix your gs? I would realy like to know the problem or the fix please as my 05 GSA 45000km is doing the same .Has been in the bmw shop for 3 weeks now.
They have replaced the clutch complete,Flywheel ,slave cylinder and pushrod. Today they tried another gearbox from another bike on mine still knocks when the clutch is pulled in (Only when the motor is hot) No noise at all when cold. When the motor was hot and knocking they replaced the oil and the knock was not there until the oil got hot ? This has us all big time they have never had this before. They don't know where to go next. Thanking you Ian.

 

[Moonchild]

Hi Raggitash

I bought a 2000 1150 last year and have exactly the same knock that you describe. It drove me silly and I had various diagnosis and ended up having the clutch plate and input shaft replaced at a hefty cost, this made no difference at all other than the fact that the gear change is a little sweeter, so dont go down that route. I have decided to ride away but if you do find a fix please let me know.

Cheers

James H.

 

[pops]

Just come back from a 8000km ride in outback oz noise is still there . Ear plugs

 

[Number 6]

As previously noted the noise is a donk donk donk (Insert own donking/thumping/slapping noise) almost like a big end bearing knackered.

I've had two 1150s, the first bought brand new and the second bought with only 600 miles on. They both made the same noise as described above when very hot. The first time it happened (in Spain with only 1000 miles on the clock) I was absolutely convinced it had knackered a big-end bearing. The noise was horrendous, even through ear plugs. A mate riding with me told me 'they all do that sometimes' and so I carried on. I was fully expecting it to seize or explode but the noise just went away. My second one, which I still have, has now done 40,000 miles and still sometimes makes this noise when hot. It sounds awful but I now just ignore it. Dunno what it is though

 

[MattW]

Will 1150's of this age have the updated camchain tensioner fitted?

 

[Number 6]

Will 1150's of this age have the updated camchain tensioner fitted?

Mine were both the latest model, 2005, 05 and 55 reg, so yes.

 

[Onwalkabout]

Mine has done it since I bought it with 7K miles on the clock. 30K and a few years later it still does it and nothing has fallen out yet.

+1 Earplugs

 

[Stewart H]

Will 1150's of this age have the updated camchain tensioner fitted?

The way to tell is to put a spanner on the tensioner, my original tensioner had a 17mm head, the upgraded one has a 15mm head

The old tensioner allows the chain to slap about for a couple of seconds at startup.

Stewart