Cold 1st start attempt issue

[fredaroony]

I've had my 2016 GS for three weeks now and the last couple of days it doesnt start right away on the first attempt but easily on the second. All good for the rest of the day as well and starts very easy. I've done a Google and others seem to have this issue as well with no real fix.

One of the "solutions" was to start the engine quickly after turning the ignition on instead of waiting the dash startup sequence to finish.

Maybe it's just a "thing" we the LC boxers?

 

[JimVonBaden]

This is normal with the Wetheads. It is hit and miss, but doesn't otherwise affect the bike. Mine did it after a couple of months of owning it, last like that for about 5 months, and now doesn't do it anymore.

I never wait for the dash start-up sequence. It finishes after the bike starts anyhow.

Jim

 

[Grim Reaper]

I read somewhere that it doesn't like being turned on and started with the clutch in.
Apparently it needs to see the clutch switch closed and open if starting in gear with the sidestand up, so if like me you normally turn it off by putting the sidestand down in gear (to stop it rolling off the sidestand in the driveway), and start it again with it in gear and the stand up, try letting the clutch out and pulling it in again before hitting the starter.

 

[fredaroony]

This is normal with the Wetheads. It is hit and miss, but doesn't otherwise affect the bike. Mine did it after a couple of months of owning it, last like that for about 5 months, and now doesn't do it anymore.

I never wait for the dash start-up sequence. It finishes after the bike starts anyhow.

Jim

Bizarre...least I am not alone and it's not a real problem. I saw your posts on Advrider and no solution has come from BMW yet.

Clearly something must be going on as one minute it was fine then it started doing it. Also started the day after my 1st service but they told me there were no updates. I checked with my GS911 and no errors codes just like everyone else.

 

[fredaroony]

I read somewhere that it doesn't like being turned on and started with the clutch in.
Apparently it needs to see the clutch switch closed and open if starting in gear with the sidestand up, so if like me you normally turn it off by putting the sidestand down in gear (to stop it rolling off the sidestand in the driveway), and start it again with it in gear and the stand up, try letting the clutch out and pulling it in again before hitting the starter.

Funny because pulling the clutch in was one of the solution I read to stop it lol. I don't I have started the bike yet with the clutch in.

 

[Nick V]

Fred, a thought - since you own a GS-911, try connecting it and seeing what the fuel pressure is just before the bike is started the first time, then compare the value to just before the bike is started the second time.

What I'm thinking is that maybe, the fuel pump doesn't prime the fuelling circuit when the ECU receives the 'Ignition On' signal - but only when the starter button is pressed.
This may explain why it only starts cleanly the second time the starter button is pressed - because that second time, there is now residual fuel pressure in the system.

...Let us know?

When I bought my K1200S in 2009, I was puzzled by the fact that the engine seemed to turn a few times before it caught - always.
Then I read a tech article that said that's a diagnostic feature built into that engine - it will always complete at least three revolutions before the ECU gives the okay for fuelling and ignition. It needs that time to check all engine-related sensors and actuators.

 

[Nutty]

I've never heard of this, and always start the bike with it in gear and the clutch pulled in.

 

[mcinlb]

Or maybe the engine is still a bit tight and takes the second time to fire it up , see post 2

 

[fredaroony]

Or maybe the engine is still a bit tight and takes the second time to fire it up , see post 2

It didn't start doing it until after about 1000klms so who knows.

 

[fredaroony]

Fred, a thought - since you own a GS-911, try connecting it and seeing what the fuel pressure is just before the bike is started the first time, then compare the value to just before the bike is started the second time.

What I'm thinking is that maybe, the fuel pump doesn't prime the fuelling circuit when the ECU receives the 'Ignition On' signal - but only when the starter button is pressed.
This may explain why it only starts cleanly the second time the starter button is pressed - because that second time, there is now residual fuel pressure in the system.

...Let us know?

When I bought my K1200S in 2009, I was puzzled by the fact that the engine seemed to turn a few times before it caught - always.
Then I read a tech article that said that's a diagnostic feature built into that engine - it will always complete at least three revolutions before the ECU gives the okay for fuelling and ignition. It needs that time to check all engine-related sensors and actuators.

I'll have a look in the next couple of days and report back!

 

[Nick V]

I'll have a look in the next couple of days and report back!

Great stuff!

I can't recall my LC ever doing this. Maybe it's a manufacturing-tolerance issue - it could be that some systems are better at holding fuel pressure than others.

 

[Engineer]

If I took my LC out of the garage it would start stone cold every time first press of the starter, I would then ride it 50 yds to my front door and switch it off; 3 mins later after all my kit on it would not then start first time and would crank a little longer second time before it would then start - weird but it has stopped doing it since my 6,000 mile service, starts first press every time now. 2015 model LC.

 

[JimVonBaden]

It didn't start doing it until after about 1000klms so who knows.

Same here. I do have some empirical evidence that the flapper valve may be the issue based on several having the flapper stuck part way open on the first try, then closed on the second. My friend had his flapper replaced by the dealer in an attempt to fix his start issue. Seems even BMW thinks it may be an issue.

Jim

 

[fredaroony]

Same here. I do have some empirical evidence that the flapper valve may be the issue based on several having the flapper stuck part way open on the first try, then closed on the second. My friend had his flapper replaced by the dealer in an attempt to fix his start issue. Seems even BMW thinks it may be an issue.

Jim

I would have thought that would have thrown an error though. Did the issue go away on you friends bike after they replaced it?

 

[JimVonBaden]

I would have thought that would have thrown an error though. Did the issue go away on you friends bike after they replaced it?

The flapper didn't throw a code because it was working, just not like it should. I guess it doesn't get that specific, but the bike will not start if the position of the valve is wrong. Yes, my friend's bike started working, but they updated the software, so not so sure if it was THE fix.

Jim

 

[fredaroony]

The flapper didn't through a code because it was working, just not like it should. I guess it doesn't get that specific, but the bike will not start if the position of the valve is wrong. Yes, my friend's bike started working, but they updated the software, so not so sure if it was THE fix.

Jim

Weird, mine is so new there isn't any software updates so I guess it rules that out. Not worried about it really but would rather it didn't do it in the same breath.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Weird, mine is so new there isn't any software updates so I guess it rules that out. Not worried about it really but would rather it didn't do it in the same breath.

His had not had a software update until after the issue. The updated the software when they changed the flapper valve.

Jim

 

[fredaroony]

His had not had a software update until after the issue. The updated the software when they changed the flapper valve.

Jim

Right but just saying that I just got my bike three weeks ago and it's been checked twice for updates since but there aren't any so there can't be a software version fix out there.

Might see if the GS911 has a flapper valve test though

 

[JimVonBaden]

Right but just saying that I just got my bike three weeks ago and it's been checked twice for updates since but there aren't any so there can't be a software version fix out there.

Might see if the GS911 has a flapper valve test though

You assume your dealer has a clue!

Yes, the GS911 will do real time values on the flapper valve.

Jim

 

[fredaroony]

You assume your dealer has a clue!

Yes, the GS911 will do real time values on the flapper valve.

Jim

Considering they overfilled the oil and it was over the glass when I got home I assume they have no idea at all I basically repeated the 1st service myself as I didn't trust them.

I'll check out the flapper valve values.