E-bike buying advice wanted

AustinW said:
You sound just like my wife.

And It’s only an opinion. An informed opinion I’ll grant you but it’s a £3250 opinion of not his Money. And it’s 2 years ago. The world moves on. The guys at Bike Treks are going to have to come up with something special to tempt me.
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I have a Specialized Turbo Levo and have had it since 2017
It’s been a fantastic introduction to e-bikes
Rides mint
A good friend has Haibikes and I have ridden his Sduro with an earlier Bosch motor - doesn’t ride anywhere near as good as mine
He also has the Haibike Trek that is a similar design to the Vado and it’s pretty good to ride
Specialized are top selling bikes for a reason - the backup and they ride so neutrally and natural
 
AndyB_11 said:
I think I’ll be getting rid of my E MTB for an E gravel bike before too long. As I’ve said elsewhere, the weight of the MTB is prohibitive to say the least and if I want to avoid a serious risk of heart failure I’m limited as to where I can go on my road bike because as soon as I head east from our house there are a lot of hills.

Those 10 or 12kg might not sound a lot but they feel a lot at the end of a day out.
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Its a good point this Andy. A 25 kg bag of building product is a fair lift, but is doable to get it in your car , up some stairs ect because its compact and dense. A 25/27 kg bike may offer up lots of handholds but its gangly and unstable. Its this aspect people miss when they buy an E bike.

In the bike shop, they stand parallel to the bike and lift it an inch off the ground. They then think “ Ok its heavy but I can push it around the garage / cafe stop”. Then as you say they get to a gate ( just like the one by my wife in the photo above) and try and lift the frame with the front wheel flapping around up and over their shoulders, its a different kettle o fish.
 
steve hughes said:
Its a good point this Andy. A 25 kg bag of building product is a fair lift, but is doable to get it in your car , up some stairs ect because its compact and dense. A 25/27 kg bike may offer up lots of handholds but its gangly and unstable. Its this aspect people miss when they buy an E bike.

In the bike shop, they stand parallel to the bike and lift it an inch off the ground. They then think “ Ok its heavy but I can push it around the garage / cafe stop”. Then as you say they get to a gate ( just like the one by my wife in the photo above) and try and lift the frame with the front wheel flapping around up and over their shoulders, its a different kettle o fish.
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That’s very true
25kg of eMTB over a fence isn’t easy
 
The other gems you sometimes need to negotiate are those gates that need you to stand a bike up on its back wheel to get through and stiles with 2 or 3 steps on either side. Both best avoided wherever possible :blast
 
Bike choice is a personal thing, as are preferred brands and of course your budget and your needs.

I was a big fan of Cannondale, then Specialised for my old analog MTB’s yet I bought a Giant E-MTB in 2019 which is perfect for me riding trails and a little modest downhill, YMMV.

Chains are fitted in minutes with a simple split-link, you’ll just need a cheap link breaker/maker pliers type tool from Amazon or similar. Cassettes need a suitable tool to unto the castellated inner nut plus a chain tool to prevent the rear hub spinning as you undo it. Again you can get inexpensive bike tool sets online. I use a 120 link KMC e11 chain for my Giant e-bike, same as the factory (or a cut-down 122 link) for about £30 a pop every 600 miles. I measure chain stretch with a simple KMC chain gauge tool and replace the chain when it exceeds 0.7

For E-bike noobs, it’s important to learn some gear shifting skills to prevent wear (aka mechanical sympathy)….Ease off pedal pressure briefly when shifting gears (but keep on spinning) to prevent chewing up chains and cassettes, always try to get into a low enough gear early before starting a climb so you aren’t down-shifting under load which really graunches the gears.

With a low enough gear selected in advance of a climb, you can always dial in more motor assist if the going starts to get tough at the top and your cadence drops off.
 
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I didn’t find mechanical wear to be too much of an issue on my eBike as long as I kept everything adjusted correctly regarding gear changers and the only real problem I had was when I crashed it pretty heavily and bent the derailleur hanger then spent ages trying to work out what was wrong before someone far more intelligent than me pointed out the obvious.

Treat it like a motorbike, clean and lubricate the chain regularly and unless you’re riding on sandy trails a lot they return the good will.
 
Always carry a spare mech hanger in your rucksack. It’s a long walk home !
 
Why limit what you can do with the bike by buying a hybrid?
A decent hardtail with a dropper post will do everything a hybrid will do plus be more capable and stable off-road. It may actually be more comfortable and stable on road if it has a slacker head angle and is longer overall. The only thing it may lack is boss's for bolt on racks but that can be overcome with generic luggage.

Tyres make a huge difference to comfort on a hardtail. They also have a significant impact on rolling resistance and off road capability. Slicks or even semi slicks on wet grass on an e bike can be interesting. An XC type tyre such as a vittoria mezcal is very fast rolling on tarmac due to the centre blocks but also surprisingle effective off-road.
2.6 width tyres have been a game changer in my experiance on a hardtail for both XC and road use but a hybrid may not have enough clearance for them.

As said above, 12 speed drivetrains are not really suitable for e bikes. You simy dont need the range. An 8 to 10 speed drivetrain is fine and both stronger and WAY cheaper to replace. A rohloff geared hub and belt drive is the best option and will be the route I'm going down on my next one.

Decent mudguards are worth investing in.
Mudhugger rear and Rapid Racer Products XL front are my current faves on a conventional hardtail Mtb. Yes they make you bike look shit but means you are clean when you get to the pub, back to the van etc.

I personally dont know anyone other than uber fit racers who have gone down the lightweight lower power route and preffered it.
I do know a few people who bought one as their first e bike for the reasons you mentioned then swapped them fairly quickly for full power bikes. Taking that to the extreme I owned a haibike adventure with their own flyon motor system and that was frankly outrageous. De restricted and geared up it would happily sit at 38mph on the flat which made it extremely usefull for rural commuting. But technically illegal.
The Haibike adventures are potentially a candidate for what you want.

Which leads onto....
If you havent already, try a de-restricted bike. They are a very different thing to ride, especially on the road compared to a restricted bike. Basically, the restrictor is only there to satisfy UK road law. Once you hit that speed limit (which is very easy on the road) the bike stops giving you assistance which translates to suddenly tryimg to peddle a very heavy bike over 16mph. Your mate on his non e bike will pass you on the flat and you will struggle to keep up as he can rattle along at closer to 20mph if he's fit. Even if you are super fit you will struggle to reach the speed you can on a non e bike. As a result you will 'ghost peddle' just below the speed limiter which burns more leccy because you arent putting in as much effort as you could because when you do, the motor stops assisting and its like pulling the brake. Anyone who says 'you don't need to de-restrict your e bike, they are fast enough' either hasnt ridden one or is completely missing the point. Its not about outright speed, which is governed by gearing, its about you being able to apply as much assistance yourself as you want or can in order to save battery power, give yourself the workout level you want and also be able to keep up with non e bikes on the flat. De-restricting a conventional e bike will only give you around 3-4 mph on your top speed depending on gearing but means you can significantly extend you range using you legs. It makes F, all difference to the load on the motor most of which is caused by low speed high gear input. It doesnt give you any more power from the motor but allows you to add more power with your legs.
Most clued up retailers will actually de restrict the bike for you asblong as you sign a waiver to say its for off-road use only.
In summary, ebike speed restriction is a complete nonsense at its current speed limit. If you actually want to race an e bike (as a few mates now do) then you would need to de-restrict it to be competitive or buy the non restricted comp version anyway.
 
PIGGLET said:
Why limit what you can do with the bike by buying a hybrid?
A decent hardtail with a dropper post will do everything a hybrid will do plus be more capable and stable off-road. It may actually be more comfortable and stable on road if it has a slacker head angle and is longer overall. The only thing it may lack is boss's for bolt on racks but that can be overcome with generic luggage.

Tyres make a huge difference to comfort on a hardtail. They also have a significant impact on rolling resistance and off road capability. Slicks or even semi slicks on wet grass on an e bike can be interesting. An XC type tyre such as a vittoria mezcal is very fast rolling on tarmac due to the centre blocks but also surprisingle effective off-road.
2.6 width tyres have been a game changer in my experiance on a hardtail for both XC and road use but a hybrid may not have enough clearance for them.

As said above, 12 speed drivetrains are not really suitable for e bikes. You simy dont need the range. An 8 to 10 speed drivetrain is fine and both stronger and WAY cheaper to replace. A rohloff geared hub and belt drive is the best option and will be the route I'm going down on my next one.

Decent mudguards are worth investing in.
Mudhugger rear and Rapid Racer Products XL front are my current faves on a conventional hardtail Mtb. Yes they make you bike look shit but means you are clean when you get to the pub, back to the van etc.

I personally dont know anyone other than uber fit racers who have gone down the lightweight lower power route and preffered it.
I do know a few people who bought one as their first e bike for the reasons you mentioned then swapped them fairly quickly for full power bikes. Taking that to the extreme I owned a haibike adventure with their own flyon motor system and that was frankly outrageous. De restricted and geared up it would happily sit at 38mph on the flat which made it extremely usefull for rural commuting. But technically illegal.
The Haibike adventures are potentially a candidate for what you want.

Which leads onto....
If you havent already, try a de-restricted bike. They are a very different thing to ride, especially on the road compared to a restricted bike. Basically, the restrictor is only there to satisfy UK road law. Once you hit that speed limit (which is very easy on the road) the bike stops giving you assistance which translates to suddenly tryimg to peddle a very heavy bike over 16mph. Your mate on his non e bike will pass you on the flat and you will struggle to keep up as he can rattle along at closer to 20mph if he's fit. Even if you are super fit you will struggle to reach the speed you can on a non e bike. As a result you will 'ghost peddle' just below the speed limiter which burns more leccy because you arent putting in as much effort as you could because when you do, the motor stops assisting and its like pulling the brake. Anyone who says 'you don't need to de-restrict your e bike, they are fast enough' either hasnt ridden one or is completely missing the point. Its not about outright speed, which is governed by gearing, its about you being able to apply as much assistance yourself as you want or can in order to save battery power, give yourself the workout level you want and also be able to keep up with non e bikes on the flat. De-restricting a conventional e bike will only give you around 3-4 mph on your top speed depending on gearing but means you can significantly extend you range using you legs. It makes F, all difference to the load on the motor most of which is caused by low speed high gear input. It doesnt give you any more power from the motor but allows you to add more power with your legs.
Most clued up retailers will actually de restrict the bike for you asblong as you sign a waiver to say its for off-road use only.
In summary, ebike speed restriction is a complete nonsense at its current speed limit. If you actually want to race an e bike (as a few mates now do) then you would need to de-restrict it to be competitive or buy the non restricted comp version anyway.
Click to expand...
I do find the 15.5mph assistance limit a pain as I ride my analogue bikes at 20-25 mph on the flat, but won't derestrict my eBike as it's illegal. If you get caught it's a possible driving ban for no insurance, no registration etc. as a derestricted bike is classed as a motorcycle.
 
Pigglet, you know what you are on about :thumb
I have a 2017 Trek Powerfly 7 that has been upgraded (gusseted frame and strong rear wheel) up to 175Kg for my commute with Laptops etc back in 2018 and a possible very long tour that didn't happen.
I rate the Trek very highly, there is no similar bike for sale today with remote locking forks and 175mm cranks etc. After around 6k miles I am used to the Bosch Gen 2 CX motor that has a 2.5:1 gearbox and hits the wall at 15.5mph. I find it gives me a good workout on the flat and easily gets me up hills. I do have a Speedbox 2 de-limiter fitted but rarely use it unless I am on a major A road and I want to be off it pronto, then I switch it in and do 25mph or so to get out of the way. Cars seem ok with you going at a fairly good lick..
I am so happy with the Powerfly 7 that I bought a second one, this one has only 500 miles on it with a dropper, tubeless tyres and I have fitted a Speedbox 2 to that as well. I am not riding the second one as I really like my original, its like an old friend...
 
sven said:
I do find the 15.5mph assistance limit a pain as I ride my analogue bikes at 20-25 mph on the flat, but won't derestrict my eBike as it's illegal. If you get caught it's a possible driving ban for no insurance, no registration etc. as a derestricted bike is classed as a motorcycle.
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If you ride that quick, have you thought about entering the TdF?
 
After testing riding a couple of Specialised bikes at Bike Treks we decided we needed both lightweight and decent power. Nothing in the Specialized range or other makes that we could find could meet this, that was also affordable. Except for the Cairn 2.0 Flat Bar. 18.5kg. 65nm motor, 610wattH battery. Fat tyres.

Do, Decision made today. We ordered hisn’hers Cairn Brave 2.0 Flat bars. Modest discount for two bikes.

We can upgrade with pannier frames, mudguards, lights, forks, bouncy seat post etc as we go depending on how we use them. Delivery in about two weeks.

www.cairncycles.com

Cairn BRAVe 2.0 Flat Bar

It's Time to Feel BRAVe Gravel Bike, rigid mountain bike, monster cross, touring bike, back country or gravduro. Whatever you want to call it ...be BRAVe! A 21st century take on the touring bike, the BRAVe takes all the great features of gravel and mountain bikes and combines them into one...
www.cairncycles.com www.cairncycles.com
 
Thanks for all the tips ya’all. It’s been very helpful. We will be able to bimble our way from the Campervan to the pub, beach or shop in the safe knowledge that the UKGSer vast knowledge base steered us to the right decision.

Thank you.
 
AustinW said:
After testing riding a couple of Specialised bikes at Bike Treks we decided we needed both lightweight and decent power. Nothing in the Specialized range or other makes that we could find could meet this, that was also affordable. Except for the Cairn 2.0 Flat Bar. 18.5kg. 65nm motor, 610wattH battery. Fat tyres.

Do, Decision made today. We ordered hisn’hers Cairn Brave 2.0 Flat bars. Modest discount for two bikes.

We can upgrade with pannier frames, mudguards, lights, forks, bouncy seat post etc as we go depending on how we use them. Delivery in about two weeks.

www.cairncycles.com

Cairn BRAVe 2.0 Flat Bar

It's Time to Feel BRAVe Gravel Bike, rigid mountain bike, monster cross, touring bike, back country or gravduro. Whatever you want to call it ...be BRAVe! A 21st century take on the touring bike, the BRAVe takes all the great features of gravel and mountain bikes and combines them into one...
www.cairncycles.com www.cairncycles.com
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Not enough bottle carrying points for my liking. :D
 
AustinW said:
Thanks for all the tips ya’all. It’s been very helpful. We will be able to bimble our way from the Campervan to the pub, beach or shop in the safe knowledge that the UKGSer vast knowledge base steered us to the right decision.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Let us know how you get on, they get good reviews and seem like a lot of bike for the money.

I think for your needs they should fit the bill nicely.

Don’t forget to buy some pedals, I use Burgtec flat composites myself. You don’t want the disappointment of not being able to just unbox and ride.
 
The mere thought of a hard tail makes my bones ache! Full suspension with a rear lockout is my cup of tea. :thumb2
 
jonnie comet said:
It's got to be nearly 10 years ago now since I went over to heavy duty (Ryde Andra) rims, 36 spokes and 32mm tyres on my drop bar 'do it all' bike. The thought of light weight wheels and skinny tyres is a complete non starter around here these days.
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I went to the luxurious feel of 28mm from 25 about the same timeas you....then tried 32mm and looked at the extra volume mathematically...wow...30% more....I'm now at 40mm (Double the volume of a 28mm tyre) and really don't feel much difference in speed but certainly do in on board comfort.
 
Davey B said:
I went to the luxurious feel of 28mm from 25 about the same timeas you....then tried 32mm and looked at the extra volume mathematically...wow...30% more....I'm now at 40mm (Double the volume of a 28mm tyre) and really don't feel much difference in speed but certainly do in on board comfort.
Click to expand...

I posted 32mm but they're actually 35mm - I would go wider but I haven't quite got the room at the back.

I have also found that going wider has had very little effect on overall speed, DESPITE being told for years and years that it would.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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