Electrical woes!

[PIGGLET]

My brother has had quite a few electrical problems with his 1150GSA, most of which i think are down to the dealer.
It needed a new loom at the back end of last year, since then it's barely been used. A couple of weeks ago when out on it it conked out at the side of the road, all electrics dead. The RAC man said "it's an earth fault" and put a patch lead from the earth terminal on the battery to the frame, this got the bike away.
The bike then went down to the dealers as my brother thought it seemed a bit of a coincidence that about 300 miles after having the loom replaced, an earth fault appears.
He was going to Norway for a week so after telling them what happened asked them to make sure the bike was good for a 1500 mile trip round Norway.
They said they couldn't find any fault and left the earth lead on the frame as a "just in case".
Last week, whilst in norway, the bike conks out again. A recovery bloke gets him to a BM dealers where they find the battery is dry and the bike isn't charging. He limped around with a new battery, no lights and an optimate untill they got back last night.
I reckon the earth problem has knackered the regulator, is this plausible
Should the Alternator be replaced at the same time or might it be OK
Needless to say He's reluctant to go back to the dealer as they never admit any fault and alsways give him a rather large bill.
What would you do

 

[Greg Masters]

I suspect that this is going to be a difficult problem to properly diagnose and fix.

The original problem may well have been the poor earth connection which is now fixed with the extra strap.

However, the period of running with a poor earth means, in effect, that the battery was disconnected. The battery acts not only as a store of electrical power but evens out any positive or negative power surges. Without this surge soak, other items could also have been damaged like, as you suggest, the voltage regulator and even the Motronic and the ABS (if it has it).

Go back to the dealer and firmly point fault in their direction as the battery should have been disconnected when the loom was fited. It seems that they didn't reconnect it properly.

Greg

 

[Tarka]

What would you do

What I`d do is check everything out myself (or get someone to do it if I wasn`t capable).

If the fault was capable of being directly attributable to the Dealer`s involvement,I`d go and talk to them about repairs and reimbursment.

If the fault wasn`t attributable to the Dealer`s involvement,I`d fix my bike (or get someone to fix it if I wasn`t capable) and get on with things.

 

[Womble]

Take the bike to an independent electrical specialist and get them to find the fault and give an estimate for any repair work. Use an electrical specialist as, to be fair, many mechanics are called MECHANICS for a reason.

If the wiring done by the garage has destroyed anything else (regulator, rectifier, alternator, battery), make sure that it is noted that the faulty wiring caused the other problems. Take the engineer's report to the garage and tell them to rectify the faults as it was their dodgy repair that caused the problems. Tell them that you paid for a job to be done and that it was done incorrectly, so now they should put it right. If necessary, have a chat with the Citizen's Advice Bureau. Not sure about costs accrued while on holiday - maybe worth pressing for a free service, if you trust them any more.

If the dodgy wiring hasn't destroyed anything else, I'd just get the electrical specialists to fix it as you should be able to trust their skills and knowledge.

 

[Womble]

A recovery bloke gets him to a BM dealers where they find the battery is dry and the bike isn't charging.

Hold on, do you really mean dry, or just lacking voltage?

If the battery is dry, it means that the charging circuit is seriously ill and the electrolyte has been boiled off bu too high a charging voltage. If you're lucky, that'll be a new rectifier/regulator. Depending on how they have failed, I have seen them take out alternator windings on other bikes, but that's a simple resistance check to verify.

However, if the charging voltage has become too high, you could indeed have damaged other circuits on the bike, including the ECU and the ABS. As Greg mentioned, the battery is a key component in stabilising the voltages on the bike. Make sure that you get the circuitry tested as thoroughly as possible - some of the damage may be difficult to detect.

 

[PIGGLET]

Yep, boiled the battery. That's why I'm sure at least the regulators goosed

The problem is that my brother doesn't have the mechanical/electrical knowledge to confidently argue his case (despite being pretty damm sure its down to the dealers actions).
I've suggested taking it to a local specialist to get the fault sorted then based on the outcome, use the info gathered to confront the dealer.
He's worried that he'll take it to the dealers they'll give him no promises, tell him it's a result of something unrelated to the work they did then sting him for buchu £'s as he feels they've done in the past.

He loves the bike but he's starting to lose confidence in it and restoring that confidence and getting him back on the road is whats most important.

 

[Tarka]

If the battery was totally dry it has been overcharged by a faulty regulator or frazzled by AC current due to a faulty rectifier.

Anyway...the decision needs to be made whether to persue for compensation which needs irrefutable proof of substandard work,or to simply check/repair the bike and not persue for compensation.

Bear in mind that an alternator is often viewed as a consumable component nowadays in the automotive world and any item of a charging circuit can fail at any time and without prior warning.

The only chance of a successful claim would appear to be proof of the loose battery earth or subsequent discovery of other malpractice...which again needs proof.

 

[PIGGLET]

The decision whether to persue a claim is up to my brother at the end of the day.
I think personally i would fix it and forget about them which leads me onto.........
How easy are the regulator and rectifier to replace, are they easily accessible?

 

[Womble]

Get your brother to find a good independent and get their opinion. One way or another, it sounds like having an alternative to the main dealer is going to be better in the long run.

From my servicing manual, the procedure to remove the alternator is as follows:
• Disengage fuel tank.
• Seal the fuel feed and return lines and disconnect.
• Disconnect breather lines.
• Disconnect plug for fuel pump.
• Remove fuel tank.
• Remove Motronic control unit.
• [ABS] Remove the pressure modulator.
• Remove front cover from engine.
• Disconnect the leads from the alternator.
• Remove alternator retainers (1, 2, 3).
• Remove bolt (4) and nut (5).
• Remove Poly-V belt.
• Remove strut (3) from frame on left.
• Remove the alternator.

It doesn't look too difficult, but not necessarily for the faint-hearted. However, when reassembling the bike, you need a special tool to tension the poly V-belt. It's a special attachment that goes on the end of a torque wrench. I'm sure that there'll be a way of doing it in the field, in which case I'm dying to know the info myself.

The regulator pack is inside the alternator - not sure if you can test the windings or swap out the electronics without removing the alternator, but it would be good if you could.

 

[Tarka]

How easy are the regulator and rectifier to replace, are they easily accessible?

They`re within the alternator.

Have a read of this........

http://homepage.sunrise.ch/mysunrise/joerg.hau/mot/elec.htm#charge

 

[Aidan1150]

They`re within the alternator.

Have a read of this........

http://homepage.sunrise.ch/mysunrise/joerg.hau/mot/elec.htm#charge

That's a bloody handy link Tarka. Saved to my favourites already.

Top post fella.

 

[PIGGLET]

Superb, cheers guy's
He's got a few options now